Survival of the Jews

[EagleEye]

Voted for Yes...Jews will only survive and thrive with Israel.  Its the only way.

[OdKahaneChai]

No.  It is important, but so is the promotion of Yiddishkeit in general.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

long term, definitely. No nation can survive as a minority forever. Eventually the minority must return to a land where it is majority, or else it will be assimilated, the fact that we survived such a fate for 1900 years is a testament of G-ds love of the Jewish people

[EagleEye]

This is exactly my opinion, the end result of having a minority nation within a larger nation is one of two things :
a) assimilation (we don't want that)
b) eventual antagonism due to divergent interests

This is nothing about Jews, it happens when mixing any two cultures.  The only way for the Jewish people to survive is to prevent the mixing.  I'm not a religious person, but the end of Jewry would be horribly tragic.  Jews have done so much to enhance the world with inventions and contributions to technological development.  I believe if Jews commit suicide, the world will end up with lower living standards than it would have otherwise.  Holding the Jewish nation together is vital to world advancement.  Israel is the only way to insure Jews a long-term future.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

This is exactly my opinion, the end result of having a minority nation within a larger nation is one of two things :
a) assimilation (we don't want that)
b) eventual antagonism due to divergent interests

This is nothing about Jews, it happens when mixing any two cultures.  The only way for the Jewish people to survive is to prevent the mixing.  I'm not a religious person, but the end of Jewry would be horribly tragic.  Jews have done so much to enhance the world with inventions and contributions to technological development.  I believe if Jews commit suicide, the world will end up with lower living standards than it would have otherwise.  Holding the Jewish nation together is vital to world advancement.  Israel is the only way to insure Jews a long-term future.

Separate cultures need separate lands or else they lead to civil war and many deaths, however the notion that there is or has ever been a unique separate "Palestinian nation" is a lie of mass proportions.

[newman]

Strange as it may seem, Jews can only survive as a separate ethnicity in diaspora if they are the victims of anti-semitism. If there was NO anti-semitism in diaspora, Jews would have assimilated. Too much anti-semitism could destroy them, too. So diaspora is dangerous either way.

Jews need Israel.

[EagleEye]

well, Orthodox Judaism can TEMPORARILY prevent assimilation...but the end result will be the nation and the Jews will fight each other...its human nature...the interests will diverge.

If a new nation is  to be made, they (the so called palis) can make it in one of the Arab countries.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

well, Orthodox Judaism can TEMPORARILY prevent assimilation...but the end result will be the nation and the Jews will fight each other...its human nature...the interests will diverge.

If a new nation is  to be made, they (the so called palis) can make it in one of the Arab countries.

Jordan is "P@lestine" when the Balfour Declaration was signed all of what was at the time "P@lestine" was promised (which included all of modern day Israel and Jordan) then the Brits divided the land and gave the Arabs the eastern 2/3.

[Raulmarrio2000]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

[OdKahaneChai]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

There you go.  A Hebrew-speaking Portugal is still a Portugal...

[newman]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State. The Orthodox and Traditional zionists are Israels only hope.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

There you go.  A Hebrew-speaking Portugal is still a Portugal...

of course, but at least it would still be our portugal, besides Secular Jews will die out, they have very few kids.....

[OdKahaneChai]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State.

Says who?  I am Charedi (and so was Rav Kahane ZT"L, HY"D), and that is absolutely not true.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State.

Says who?  I am Charedi (and so was Rav Kahane ZT"L, HY"D), and that is absolutely not true.

he means those in Israel who call themselves "Ultra-Orthodox", they tend to be anti-State

[newman]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State.

Says who?  I am Charedi (and so was Rav Kahane ZT"L, HY"D), and that is absolutely not true.

he means those in Israel who call themselves "Ultra-Orthodox", they tend to be anti-State

Correct. I mean the ultra-orthodox of Israel. The Charedim, black hats who refuse to work or serve in the army. They also refuse to observe the minute's silence to hounour Israel's war dead. All the while living off State welfare. These people harm the religious in Israel. Ask a secular Israeli why he hates the religious and he'll tell you all about  "Those black hat parasites". This means that orthodox Jews who do work and serve in Israel's elite military units get unfairly branded because of those 'Charedim'.

In fairness, now a days about 20% of charedi males are working (because of welfare cutbacks) and there is a charedi IDF unit. These are still in the tiny minority, though.

[OdKahaneChai]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State.

Says who?  I am Charedi (and so was Rav Kahane ZT"L, HY"D), and that is absolutely not true.

he means those in Israel who call themselves "Ultra-Orthodox", they tend to be anti-State

I know full well what he means.  And I would at least like to think of myself as "Ultra-Orthodox."  And I don't blame them one bit for anything they do.  The state wants to get rid of the Chesder Yeshivot, and almost all of the "Mechinot" are extremely Mamlachti.  I personally would probably serve in something like Nachal Charedi, but I don't blame any Charedim at all for not serving in the army.  Now, some of them do take money (and I don't mean steal, I mean receive welfare) from the State, which I think is a mistake.  But other than that, I don't blame them for anything.

[newman]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State.

Says who?  I am Charedi (and so was Rav Kahane ZT"L, HY"D), and that is absolutely not true.

he means those in Israel who call themselves "Ultra-Orthodox", they tend to be anti-State

I know full well what he means.  And I would at least like to think of myself as "Ultra-Orthodox."  And I don't blame them one bit for anything they do.  The state wants to get rid of the Chesder Yeshivot, and almost all of the "Mechinot" are extremely Mamlachti.  I personally would probably serve in something like Nachal Charedi, but I don't blame any Charedim at all for not serving in the army.  Now, some of them do take money (and I don't mean steal, I mean receive welfare) from the State, which I think is a mistake.  But other than that, I don't blame them for anything.

Not "some". Try a 60+% majority at least.

What about the images of charedi children throwing Israeli flags into fires on Lag b'Omer? Or the sight of young charedi yeshiva students laughing and playing when the  sirens blare on Memorial Day and all of Israel (except them) stands silent to honour Israel's fallen soldiers?

Eve Harrow recently spoke of a Jewish baby killed when the charedim threw a rock through the window of a car she was travelling in.

Even in the charedi military units, they refuse to carry a stretcher if it has a female on it. Is that Torah? You can't carry a wounded Jewess to safety???

You have to admit, these people have lousy PR skills to say the least.

[OdKahaneChai]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State.

Says who?  I am Charedi (and so was Rav Kahane ZT"L, HY"D), and that is absolutely not true.

he means those in Israel who call themselves "Ultra-Orthodox", they tend to be anti-State

I know full well what he means.  And I would at least like to think of myself as "Ultra-Orthodox."  And I don't blame them one bit for anything they do.  The state wants to get rid of the Chesder Yeshivot, and almost all of the "Mechinot" are extremely Mamlachti.  I personally would probably serve in something like Nachal Charedi, but I don't blame any Charedim at all for not serving in the army.  Now, some of them do take money (and I don't mean steal, I mean receive welfare) from the State, which I think is a mistake.  But other than that, I don't blame them for anything.

Not "some". Try a 60+% majority at least.

What about the images of charedi children throwing Israeli flags into fires on Lag b'Omer? Or the sight of young charedi yeshiva students laughing and playing when the sirens blare on Memorial Day and all of Israel (except them) stands silent to honour Israel's fallen soldiers?

Eve Harrow recently spoke of a Jewish baby killed when the charedim threw a rock through the window of a car she was travelling in.

Even in the charedi military units, they refuse to carry a stretcher if it has a female on it. Is that Torah? You can't carry a wounded Jewess to safety???

You have to admit, these people have lousy PR skills to say the least.

Or the Leftists have very good PR skills...

As to the first thing, some Charedim are Anti-Zionist.  I don't agree with it, but it's a valid halachic opinion.  As to the second thing, if that is even true, I would be willing to bet it was NK.  And as to the third and fourth things, I would like to see some solid proof, because both of those smell like Leftist propaganda.

[newman]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State.

Says who?  I am Charedi (and so was Rav Kahane ZT"L, HY"D), and that is absolutely not true.

he means those in Israel who call themselves "Ultra-Orthodox", they tend to be anti-State

I know full well what he means.  And I would at least like to think of myself as "Ultra-Orthodox."  And I don't blame them one bit for anything they do.  The state wants to get rid of the Chesder Yeshivot, and almost all of the "Mechinot" are extremely Mamlachti.  I personally would probably serve in something like Nachal Charedi, but I don't blame any Charedim at all for not serving in the army.  Now, some of them do take money (and I don't mean steal, I mean receive welfare) from the State, which I think is a mistake.  But other than that, I don't blame them for anything.

Not "some". Try a 60+% majority at least.

What about the images of charedi children throwing Israeli flags into fires on Lag b'Omer? Or the sight of young charedi yeshiva students laughing and playing when the sirens blare on Memorial Day and all of Israel (except them) stands silent to honour Israel's fallen soldiers?

Eve Harrow recently spoke of a Jewish baby killed when the charedim threw a rock through the window of a car she was travelling in.

Even in the charedi military units, they refuse to carry a stretcher if it has a female on it. Is that Torah? You can't carry a wounded Jewess to safety???

You have to admit, these people have lousy PR skills to say the least.

Or the Leftists have very good PR skills...

As to the first thing, some Charedim are Anti-Zionist.  I don't agree with it, but it's a valid halachic opinion.  As to the second thing, if that is even true, I would be willing to bet it was NK.  And as to the third and fourth things, I would like to see some solid proof, because both of those smell like Leftist propaganda.

Eve Harrow is on Arutz Sheva and had first hand knowledge.

As for the female soldiers on stretchers, it's pretty common knowledge in the IDF.

[OdKahaneChai]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State.

Says who?  I am Charedi (and so was Rav Kahane ZT"L, HY"D), and that is absolutely not true.

he means those in Israel who call themselves "Ultra-Orthodox", they tend to be anti-State

I know full well what he means.  And I would at least like to think of myself as "Ultra-Orthodox."  And I don't blame them one bit for anything they do.  The state wants to get rid of the Chesder Yeshivot, and almost all of the "Mechinot" are extremely Mamlachti.  I personally would probably serve in something like Nachal Charedi, but I don't blame any Charedim at all for not serving in the army.  Now, some of them do take money (and I don't mean steal, I mean receive welfare) from the State, which I think is a mistake.  But other than that, I don't blame them for anything.

Not "some". Try a 60+% majority at least.

What about the images of charedi children throwing Israeli flags into fires on Lag b'Omer? Or the sight of young charedi yeshiva students laughing and playing when the sirens blare on Memorial Day and all of Israel (except them) stands silent to honour Israel's fallen soldiers?

Eve Harrow recently spoke of a Jewish baby killed when the charedim threw a rock through the window of a car she was travelling in.

Even in the charedi military units, they refuse to carry a stretcher if it has a female on it. Is that Torah? You can't carry a wounded Jewess to safety???

You have to admit, these people have lousy PR skills to say the least.

Or the Leftists have very good PR skills...

As to the first thing, some Charedim are Anti-Zionist.  I don't agree with it, but it's a valid halachic opinion.  As to the second thing, if that is even true, I would be willing to bet it was NK.  And as to the third and fourth things, I would like to see some solid proof, because both of those smell like Leftist propaganda.

Eve Harrow is on Arutz Sheva and had first hand knowledge.

As for the female soldiers on stretchers, it's pretty common knowledge in the IDF.

No offense, but "it's common knowledge" is usually a cop-out.  And let me ask you this - women don't serve in Charedi units.  So when would this happen anyway?

[newman]

The only way to get rid of Palis is to dismantle Jordan, and send them there.
Anyway I find secualr Israel is a greater threat to Jewish survival than Diaspora. Israel may assimilate to the West even with no intermarriages. The solution for that would be more power to Haredim

The charedim are leeches and opposed to a Jewish State.

Says who?  I am Charedi (and so was Rav Kahane ZT"L, HY"D), and that is absolutely not true.

he means those in Israel who call themselves "Ultra-Orthodox", they tend to be anti-State

I know full well what he means.  And I would at least like to think of myself as "Ultra-Orthodox."  And I don't blame them one bit for anything they do.  The state wants to get rid of the Chesder Yeshivot, and almost all of the "Mechinot" are extremely Mamlachti.  I personally would probably serve in something like Nachal Charedi, but I don't blame any Charedim at all for not serving in the army.  Now, some of them do take money (and I don't mean steal, I mean receive welfare) from the State, which I think is a mistake.  But other than that, I don't blame them for anything.

Not "some". Try a 60+% majority at least.

What about the images of charedi children throwing Israeli flags into fires on Lag b'Omer? Or the sight of young charedi yeshiva students laughing and playing when the sirens blare on Memorial Day and all of Israel (except them) stands silent to honour Israel's fallen soldiers?

Eve Harrow recently spoke of a Jewish baby killed when the charedim threw a rock through the window of a car she was travelling in.

Even in the charedi military units, they refuse to carry a stretcher if it has a female on it. Is that Torah? You can't carry a wounded Jewess to safety???

You have to admit, these people have lousy PR skills to say the least.

Or the Leftists have very good PR skills...

As to the first thing, some Charedim are Anti-Zionist.  I don't agree with it, but it's a valid halachic opinion.  As to the second thing, if that is even true, I would be willing to bet it was NK.  And as to the third and fourth things, I would like to see some solid proof, because both of those smell like Leftist propaganda.

Eve Harrow is on Arutz Sheva and had first hand knowledge.

As for the female soldiers on stretchers, it's pretty common knowledge in the IDF.

No offense, but "it's common knowledge" is usually a cop-out.  And let me ask you this - women don't serve in Charedi units.  So when would this happen anyway?

That's why the charedi units were formed. It was because these problems arose when they tried to integrate them in the regular IDF.