Chaimfan's Response To Rubystar's Ask JTF Question

[Ulli]

Why is it forbidden for gentiles to read the Talmud?

[Lisa]

Golden Pheasant,

My guess (since I have never read the Talmud) is that it's a very cryptic body of work, which can be subject to misinterpretation. 

In one of his audio lectures on the Talmud, Rabbi Tovia Singer said just that.  He also pointed out that extreme examples are used to stress certain points.  In his view the purpose of such examples was so that the laws would be applicable to as many situations as possible. 

[Ulli]

You are right, Lisa. It is not easy to read.

I have bought before ca. one year two volumes of the translation of Lazarus Goldschmidt. I have only readed until now a few pages. It is for someone who has nobody, who can explain him, very hard.

I have volume X. containing Hulin + Bekhoroth + Arakhin and volume XI. containing Zebahim + Menahoth.

First I want to buy the whole Talmud, but after I see the prices, I bought only this two volumes on http://choosebooks.com

[Lisa]

Dear Golden Pheasant,

You might be better of buying a book *about* the Talmud.  I've heard that "The Complete Idiot's Guide To The Talmud" is good. 

[Ulli]

Dear Golden Pheasant,

You might be better of buying a book *about* the Talmud.  I've heard that "The Complete Idiot's Guide To The Talmud" is good. 

Thank you Lisa, I have ordered it for EUR 13,99 

[Lisa]

To Dexter and Chaimfan,

While some Jews would argue that Christianity is not technically as monotheistic as Judaism or Islam, I don't think any of that is relevant at this point in time. 

From what I know, Judaism focuses on a person's deeds.  So whereas Muslims will put on a big show about being all monotheistic and militantly rejecting any form of graven images, their evil deeds pose the biggest problem for Jews and righteous gentiles.  In other words, it's fine to be monotheistic, but killing each other and "non-believers" is unacceptable, as are suicide bombings, honor killings, and female circumcision. 

Ashish, the Jewish and Hindu religions are very different.  But that doesn't mean Jews hate Hindus. 

Like others have said, Judaism doesn't require that others become Jewish.  If they are righteous, and follow the simple Noahide laws, they can also obtain a place in the world to come. 

[Rubystars]

Like others have said, Judaism doesn't require that others become Jewish.  If they are righteous, and follow the simple Noahide laws, they can also obtain a place in the world to come. 

The problem being that idolaters automatically are not following those laws.

[Shlomo]

I think newman is right here. I see no problem in sharing Torah with the righteous gentiles of this spiritually dying generation unless it puts Jewish people in danger.

We are supposed to be a light to the nations. What does a light do? It illuminates the darkness and helps people find the path. It shows the TRUTH and reality of our situations and brings good and the only truth comes from Hashem. How can we be a light if we hide the medicine that people are begging for? Again... if it endangers a Jewish person, then it's a different matter.

Our main mission is to love one another and to fix the planet. I can't see how we can do this without the Torah.

[newman]

Why is it forbidden for gentiles to read the Talmud?

When one researches noachidism you'll read time and time again that it is considered 'great' for a gentile to study Torah...."but not the parts of Torah that relate only to Jews". This means Talmud and the parts of Tanach that deal with strictly Jewish matters such as ritual cleanliness for Temple worship, tzit tzit etc.

The RAMBAM himself said "a gentile who studies Torah is as our high priests".

As far as jews teaching Torah go, consider the following:

1/ As shlomo said, What is the purpose of "a light unto the nations" and "a nation of priests" if not to teach the Torah?

2/ Has it not been said countless times that Torah is for all mankind and that Jews are it's keepers or custodians?

3/ If Jews do not teach direct from the Tanach and give the goyim the proper meaning and interpretation, will that not lead to the goyim misunderstanding crucial aspects of it and lead to false religions, replacement theology and other catastrophies as we've seen for the last 2000 years?

4/ I believe it is the Talmud Jews must not teach to gentiles directly but they can paraphrase it and give gentiles some basic understanding of it for legitimate reasons. ie; If (g-d forbid) the anti-semites rise up and a righteous gentile must hide Jews in his home, should he not have a basic understanding of kashrut so as not to inadvertantly cause Jews to sin by giving them un-kosher food?

[Ulli]

I think I read the book, that Lisa has advised me first. After it I am going to read the Bibel again.

This can wait:





Books don't run away 

[Shlomo]

Books don't run away 

And schvartzas will never steal them. lol

[Ulli]

Books don't run away 

And schvartzas will never steal them. lol

 

[newman]

The RAMBAM's "Guide To The Perplexed" is a must for gentiles, too.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

The RAMBAM's "Guide To The Perplexed" is a must for gentiles, too.

Maybe, but I dont think that Jews should read it, unless one comes from a philosophical background and can only understand in that sort of way. Like the title says- its a guide to the perplexed.
 Besides that its not the proper path for people to learn what isn't related to them and what is not needed for them. This includes gentiles learning the Talmud, and even Jewish women learning most of the things is not for them either (except the laws that they have to keep). With a gentile it is said that he/she puts themselves in a life risk (Heavenly) when they study the Talmud or keep Shabb-t because it is not for them.

[newman]

The RAMBAM's "Guide To The Perplexed" is a must for gentiles, too.

Maybe, but I dont think that Jews should read it, unless one comes from a philosophical background and can only understand in that sort of way. Like the title says- its a guide to the perplexed.
 Besides that its not the proper path for people to learn what isn't related to them and what is not needed for them. This includes gentiles learning the Talmud, and even Jewish women learning most of the things is not for them either (except the laws that they have to keep). With a gentile it is said that he/she puts themselves in a life risk (Heavenly) when they study the Talmud or keep Shabbat because it is not for them.

A gentile who studies Torah with the mindset of an idolator also risks curses. As does Kabbalah study without solid Torah knowledge.

The point is.........

In order for the gentiles to learn (their relevant parts of) Torah, they must learn from Jews or they'll never 'get it'.

[Ulli]

The RAMBAM's "Guide To The Perplexed" is a must for gentiles, too.

Maybe, but I dont think that Jews should read it, unless one comes from a philosophical background and can only understand in that sort of way. Like the title says- its a guide to the perplexed.
 Besides that its not the proper path for people to learn what isn't related to them and what is not needed for them. This includes gentiles learning the Talmud, and even Jewish women learning most of the things is not for them either (except the laws that they have to keep). With a gentile it is said that he/she puts themselves in a life risk (Heavenly) when they study the Talmud or keep Shabbat because it is not for them.

What is the reason for the danger?