Poll

Should they be banned for Jews?

Yes, all male-female interdancing except between a husband and wife in private should be banned.
10 (28.6%)
Yes, "proms" are not Jewish but general male-female interdancing should not be banned.
4 (11.4%)
No.
21 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: Should Jews Participate In Senior Proms?  (Read 125932 times)

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Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #75 on: January 29, 2008, 06:13:14 PM »
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Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?

In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?


You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?

There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.



This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.

Ballet should be forbidden its boring as watching paint dry.  :(

But I agree with your point the dance is social, and 95% of the time you are chatting with friends anyway.

Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #76 on: January 29, 2008, 06:23:54 PM »
I have been accoused of making "silly" topics on the forum.  Yakov, YOU MAKE SILLY TOPICS like these.

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #77 on: January 29, 2008, 06:26:23 PM »
Quote
Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?

In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?


You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?

There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.



This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.


Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.



Marriage ? where did you read that? I have missed something, I am sure he is only talking about a school dance.

Offline dejavu

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #78 on: January 29, 2008, 06:30:14 PM »
god help you if you saw what my date wore to Sr. Prom... all i can say is less than a yard of fabric... ;D

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2008, 06:31:49 PM »
He said it is morally wrong to forbid Jews and Gentiles from mixing. If the mixing he is talking about is inter-religious gender mixing, Judaism and JTF are completely against this. It is okay to be friends with Gentiles but doing anything that is immodest for men and women to do together and on top of that to do it with a Gentile is absolutely forbidden.



I did not take Mixing as "mixing" more of being social together as friends.

Just Erica

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2008, 06:38:19 PM »
Quote
Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?

In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?


You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?

There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.



This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.


Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.


Getting a little ahead of yourself, aren't you Yacov? No one said that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong or wrong in any sense. I respect Jewish law...I just find it really annoying that someone would want to ban a social gathering because of fear of someone having fun, God forbid. If it's not your cup of tea, don't go to any of these gatherings. Don't dance with a female. Don't LOOK at a female. Just don't tell others how to run their lives.

Offline JTFFan

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2008, 06:38:31 PM »
If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"

Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not

Just Erica

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #82 on: January 29, 2008, 06:53:20 PM »
If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"

Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not
I don't think we're talking Jewish prom here. I think that dancing is innocent, dressing up and feeling like royalty for an evening is innocent , and even interdancing. I respect your culture and your religion but I admit, I'd have a hard time giving up things from the culture I'm in if I were to convert to Judaism. I LOVE dancing with my husband and in a group of men and women. I LOVE wearing clothes that are feminine but don't show anything off..but I love having the freedom to choose a lot better. I also love PDA (Public Displays of Affection). (I'm not talking about sex on the beach or anything but people who wouldn't mind someone else seeing how in love and dedicated to their spouse or significant other they are. )

I'm glad we're all different. Otherwise conversations like these would not only be one-dimensional but not much fun at all.

Offline Dominater96

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2008, 07:01:51 PM »
I don't think male-female interdancing is prohibited for Gentiles so this question is strictly for Jews.

I think they should be banned and I'm very grateful I never went to the one my high school had. I was never into that nonsense even when I did believe in male-female interdancing. I knew I'm Jewish and that "proms" are not a Jewish thing.


Why do u keep wanting to ban things? Serriously grow up. It looks like u want to infringe on alot of our civil liberties, and be "big brother"

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2008, 07:03:50 PM »
He said it is morally wrong to forbid Jews and Gentiles from mixing. If the mixing he is talking about is inter-religious gender mixing, Judaism and JTF are completely against this. It is okay to be friends with Gentiles but doing anything that is immodest for men and women to do together and on top of that to do it with a Gentile is absolutely forbidden.



I did not take Mixing as "mixing" more of being social together as friends.


Then it should not involve dancing.



Did I say it did, you can still enjoy peoples company without dancing.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2008, 07:05:42 PM »
If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"

Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not
I don't think we're talking Jewish prom here. I think that dancing is innocent, dressing up and feeling like royalty for an evening is innocent , and even interdancing. I respect your culture and your religion but I admit, I'd have a hard time giving up things from the culture I'm in if I were to convert to Judaism. I LOVE dancing with my husband and in a group of men and women. I LOVE wearing clothes that are feminine but don't show anything off..but I love having the freedom to choose a lot better. I also love PDA (Public Displays of Affection). (I'm not talking about sex on the beach or anything but people who wouldn't mind someone else seeing how in love and dedicated to their spouse or significant other they are. )

I'm glad we're all different. Otherwise conversations like these would not only be one-dimensional but not much fun at all.


Erica, you have essentially accepted on principle this movement believes in...No One World... If we all had the same religion and same this and same that and one country, it woudl be a very one dimensional world.  On a smaller scale you have always known that...
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

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Offline Merkava

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #86 on: January 29, 2008, 07:06:20 PM »
Quote
NO. They shouldn't be banned. And just for the record, Proms aren't a Christian thing either. Its a celebration of a class graduating from High school and becoming young adults!

And interdancing... Yacov, stop picking on celebrations that actually make others happy.

I agree - Yakov, cheerup dude !!! You need a woman in your life to make you wanna celebrate these great moments.
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Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #87 on: January 29, 2008, 07:08:42 PM »
If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"

Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not

I think its culture that allows them to be immoral, if the culture is created to allow such behavour then its one that can't be promoted.

Every school dance or social we call them, I have been too we all had a good clean time ( I have been to around 5).
Its a little worrying that alot of you seem to be in areas of unacceptable social standards.

Just Erica

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #88 on: January 29, 2008, 07:12:48 PM »
If many things aren't permitted in the prom it's fine, in other words "righteous prom"

Most proms are immoral and can be vulgar, depending on the school and what not
I don't think we're talking Jewish prom here. I think that dancing is innocent, dressing up and feeling like royalty for an evening is innocent , and even interdancing. I respect your culture and your religion but I admit, I'd have a hard time giving up things from the culture I'm in if I were to convert to Judaism. I LOVE dancing with my husband and in a group of men and women. I LOVE wearing clothes that are feminine but don't show anything off..but I love having the freedom to choose a lot better. I also love PDA (Public Displays of Affection). (I'm not talking about sex on the beach or anything but people who wouldn't mind someone else seeing how in love and dedicated to their spouse or significant other they are. )

I'm glad we're all different. Otherwise conversations like these would not only be one-dimensional but not much fun at all.


Erica, you have essentially accepted on principle this movement believes in...No One World... If we all had the same religion and same this and same that and one country, it woudl be a very one dimensional world.  On a smaller scale you have always known that...
That's actually always been my mantra. I've ALWAYS accepted other religions and different cultures of people because everyone SHOULD be respected for what they stand for and for the positivity they bring to the world. The one thing I'm against is bashing colors of other's skin, comparing people to monkeys, and bullying good people. Say what you will about those who aren't productive and constantly start trouble...just don't doubt that there is good in every culture.

Offline Merkava

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #89 on: January 29, 2008, 07:17:08 PM »
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That's actually always been my mantra. I've ALWAYS accepted other religions and different cultures of people because everyone SHOULD be respected for what they stand for and for the positivity they bring to the world. The one thing I'm against is bashing colors of other's skin, comparing people to monkeys, and bullying good people. Say what you will about those who aren't productive and constantly start trouble...just don't doubt that there is good in every culture.

Maybe JTF can learn a few things from Erica.
"We are in 1938, and Iran is Germany"


Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #90 on: January 29, 2008, 07:21:59 PM »
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That's actually always been my mantra. I've ALWAYS accepted other religions and different cultures of people because everyone SHOULD be respected for what they stand for and for the positivity they bring to the world. The one thing I'm against is bashing colors of other's skin, comparing people to monkeys, and bullying good people. Say what you will about those who aren't productive and constantly start trouble...just don't doubt that there is good in every culture.

Maybe JTF can learn a few things from Erica.

Agreed  O0

Offline Lisa

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #91 on: January 29, 2008, 08:41:13 PM »
Yacov, I don't see anything wrong with proms.  I think many evening dresses could be more modest.  I personally don't like to expose my arms at all.  But that's just me.  (My mother says I dress like a grandmother/nun.)  Also, if the dancing is modest (as opposed to grinding against one another) I think it's fine.  These are social events where young people can meet and socialize with one another. 

Now if you really have a problem with mixed dancing, you have the option of either not going to a regular prom, or organizing a special Orthodox Jewish prom where the young men and women dance separately.  All this talk of banning sounds rather extreme.

Finally, I don't think Nic meant any disrespect.  He was just writing about his perspective on the whole prom thing.  So please go easy on him. 



Offline Lisa

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #92 on: January 29, 2008, 08:51:33 PM »
I've never been to a prom, but I thought they were to celebrate the end of high school -- kind of like a graduation party. 

Would you go to a prom if it was on week night? 

Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #93 on: January 29, 2008, 08:53:16 PM »
Yakov, please stop with these topics.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #94 on: January 29, 2008, 08:54:21 PM »
I personally have no problems with proms as long as their are no interracial dates and of course no muzzies.
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Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #95 on: January 29, 2008, 09:01:25 PM »
Would you go to a prom if it was on week night? 


No. I always thought the idea of proms were Non-Jewish. I said Israel is our homeland and we don't need to adopt American customs such as proms.


Of course
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Daniel

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #96 on: January 29, 2008, 09:14:06 PM »
Proms are not Jewish. Nor are they Christain or any other religion. Proms have nothing to do with religion or religiousity. This poll is absolutely pointless. Yakov's polls keep getting more and more preposterous.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #97 on: January 29, 2008, 09:23:52 PM »
Yacov, I am sure secular people in Israel have their equivalents of proms hehe. I don't think proms are anything bad as long as their isnt anything going on that I described in my last post. Of course if a gay couple decides to come to the prom, they should be skinned to the bone.
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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #98 on: January 29, 2008, 09:27:00 PM »
Yacov, I am sure secular people in Israel have their equivalents of proms hehe. I don't think proms are anything bad as long as their isnt anything going on that I described in my last post. Of course if a gay couple decides to come to the prom, they should be skinned to the bone.
:o

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #99 on: January 29, 2008, 09:28:57 PM »
In Israel people just go to dance clubs and dance to horrible loud noise.


I hate that too Yacov!
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.