Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Moshiah (Add on to what Judea was saying)
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 15, 2008, 03:59:51 PM ---
Also about kiruv work. 1 question for you. Why are their chabad houses in religious neighborhoods? If the people are allready religious, why is their a need for a Chabad kiruv organization?
--- End quote ---
To spread the teachings of Chassidus!
judeanoncapta:
I would suggest that you all listen to this shiur about the connection between Chabad Messianism, Shabbetai Tzvi and Christianity.
habadjewish messianism.mp3 - 14.64MB
It is very enlightening.
q_q_:
There are some lubavitchers that consider the Rebbe to be the messiah, and a more extreme group within that that actually think he is G-d!!
The yechi statement tends to be said by those that believe he is the messiah.. The ones that think he is G-d tend to say some sentence with the word Borainu in it..
In order that nobody is misled.. And please correct me if I am wrong lulav.. Do you think he is the messiah? It seems like you might...
By the way..
If you say he is, then by that reasoning, many others could just as easily be the messiah too.
By your criteria..
Including moshe rabbaynu could be him!!! He also taught the torah and the noachide laws, and died a natural death.
From a kabbalistic perspective, it is possible that the soul of some great rabbi could return as moshiach.. But that does not mean that that person was moshiach. Just that he will return - as somebody else - as moshiach..
The RAMBAM does talk about the presumed messiah fighting the wars of G-d.. In chapter 11. That is why I think he said "if he is killed" rather than "if he dies" (assuming he does say "if he is killed")...
And anyhow, this is the presumed messiah.. Does not mean he is the messiah..
But if you are using that paragraph "if he is killed" as a loophole, then as I said, it could apply to almost anybody. And you ignore that he did not fight the wars of G-d (wars as RAMBAM describes them in hilchot melachim.. - laws of wars..), are real physical battles/wars.
"The Lubavitcher" was an old rabbi with a grey beard, living in america.. very active guy.. but non violent. Certainly not a bar kochba type guy!! Fighting proper wars!!
Lubab:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on February 16, 2008, 08:23:27 PM ---
The yechi statement tends to be said by those that believe he is the messiah.. The ones that think he is G-d tend to say some sentence with the word Borainu in it..
In order that nobody is misled.. And please correct me if I am wrong lulav.. Do you think he is the messiah? It seems like you might...
--- End quote ---
Yes. I do.
The Rebbe-G-d situation suffers from two problems.
One problem is that some of these people running around are just plain nuts.
The other problem is that there are legitimate statements by the Chassidic Rebbes that led to these nut's views, which are absolutely holy pure and true..but the second problem is that Chabad hasidic philosophy is written in a certain language. The language of hasidic and often kabbalistic terminology. The vast majority of people don't understand that language, so this can lead to many misunderstandings.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: lubab on February 16, 2008, 08:31:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on February 16, 2008, 08:23:27 PM ---
The yechi statement tends to be said by those that believe he is the messiah.. The ones that think he is G-d tend to say some sentence with the word Borainu in it..
In order that nobody is misled.. And please correct me if I am wrong lulav.. Do you think he is the messiah? It seems like you might...
--- End quote ---
Yes. I do.
The Rebbe-G-d situation suffers from two problems.
One problem is that some of these people running around are just plain nuts.
The other problem is that there are legitimate statements by the Chassidic Rebbes that led to these nut's views, which are absolutely holy pure and true..but the second problem is that Chabad hasidic philosophy is written in a certain language. The language of hasidic and often kabbalistic terminology. The vast majority of people don't understand that language, so this can lead to many misunderstandings.
--- End quote ---
Exactly, their shouldn't have been in the first place this mess created where some step over the line completly and are in the category of idol-worshippers. I belive that this is one of the reasons why certain Sefardic Kabbalists didn't allow people to have pictures of great Rabbis, in order not to create a statute or a mini-"G-d" out of them.
"The Ben Ish Chai (Rabbi Yosef Chayim of Baghdad, 1835-1909), in Parashat Masei, cites a Kabbalistic tradition forbidding hanging pictures of people in one’s home. Many people, however, do not follow this practice, and permit hanging photographs. "......
http://dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=1305&txtSearch=pictures
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