Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
I was wondering if someone here can help me understand the following mishna
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 25, 2008, 09:13:13 PM ---They would not be allowed to do it even in G-d's name. This is something the Arabs try to claim, BUT they were never commanded to do so. If they had a mitzva of when the Jews are doing A,B, and C, then go murder them so they learn a lesson, then they would be justified, BUT they never were commanded to do so, and infact G-d instructs and warns the exact opposite. for example " Those that curse you, will be cursed" - it is not a condition, but a statement from G-d.
--- End quote ---
I understand this.
However, if one should not curse Jews even in their unruly times and the whole world were to heed that warning that "those who curseth will be cursed", then how else will Gd perform his justice?
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 25, 2008, 10:09:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 25, 2008, 09:13:13 PM ---They would not be allowed to do it even in G-d's name. This is something the Arabs try to claim, BUT they were never commanded to do so. If they had a mitzva of when the Jews are doing A,B, and C, then go murder them so they learn a lesson, then they would be justified, BUT they never were commanded to do so, and infact G-d instructs and warns the exact opposite. for example " Those that curse you, will be cursed" - it is not a condition, but a statement from G-d.
--- End quote ---
I understand this.
However, if one should not curse Jews even in their unruly times and the whole world were to heed that warning that "those who curseth will be cursed", then how else will Gd perform his justice?
--- End quote ---
He has his ways and agents. Their are animals, natural disaster, cars (for car accidents), diseases, and many other agents. But if the world would be in that perfected state, then their wouldn't have to be a need for it to happen. And justice is not allways executed in this world, so when someone sees very bad people enjoying life, etc. It is for our free choice , but justice will be served one way or another.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 25, 2008, 10:18:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 25, 2008, 10:09:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 25, 2008, 09:13:13 PM ---They would not be allowed to do it even in G-d's name. This is something the Arabs try to claim, BUT they were never commanded to do so. If they had a mitzva of when the Jews are doing A,B, and C, then go murder them so they learn a lesson, then they would be justified, BUT they never were commanded to do so, and infact G-d instructs and warns the exact opposite. for example " Those that curse you, will be cursed" - it is not a condition, but a statement from G-d.
--- End quote ---
I understand this.
However, if one should not curse Jews even in their unruly times and the whole world were to heed that warning that "those who curseth will be cursed", then how else will Gd perform his justice?
--- End quote ---
He has his ways and agents. Their are animals, natural disaster, cars (for car accidents), diseases, and many other agents. But if the world would be in that perfected state, then their wouldn't have to be a need for it to happen. And justice is not allways executed in this world, so when someone sees very bad people enjoying life, etc. It is for our free choice , but justice will be served one way or another.
--- End quote ---
I accept this principle. What bidding of justice shoudl we do when it comes down to fellow Jews and to gentiles? And what bidding of justice shoudl be done to us by fellow Jews and gentiles if Gd doesn't do it with other agents?
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 25, 2008, 10:37:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 25, 2008, 10:18:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 25, 2008, 10:09:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 25, 2008, 09:13:13 PM ---They would not be allowed to do it even in G-d's name. This is something the Arabs try to claim, BUT they were never commanded to do so. If they had a mitzva of when the Jews are doing A,B, and C, then go murder them so they learn a lesson, then they would be justified, BUT they never were commanded to do so, and infact G-d instructs and warns the exact opposite. for example " Those that curse you, will be cursed" - it is not a condition, but a statement from G-d.
--- End quote ---
I understand this.
However, if one should not curse Jews even in their unruly times and the whole world were to heed that warning that "those who curseth will be cursed", then how else will Gd perform his justice?
--- End quote ---
He has his ways and agents. Their are animals, natural disaster, cars (for car accidents), diseases, and many other agents. But if the world would be in that perfected state, then their wouldn't have to be a need for it to happen. And justice is not allways executed in this world, so when someone sees very bad people enjoying life, etc. It is for our free choice , but justice will be served one way or another.
--- End quote ---
I accept this principle. What bidding of justice shoudl we do when it comes down to fellow Jews and to gentiles? And what bidding of justice shoudl be done to us by fellow Jews and gentiles if Gd doesn't do it with other agents?
--- End quote ---
The proper court and court systems. Unless one is a rodef and is endangering one's or another's life and the only way to stop them is to kill them.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 26, 2008, 03:14:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 25, 2008, 10:37:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 25, 2008, 10:18:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 25, 2008, 10:09:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 25, 2008, 09:13:13 PM ---They would not be allowed to do it even in G-d's name. This is something the Arabs try to claim, BUT they were never commanded to do so. If they had a mitzva of when the Jews are doing A,B, and C, then go murder them so they learn a lesson, then they would be justified, BUT they never were commanded to do so, and infact G-d instructs and warns the exact opposite. for example " Those that curse you, will be cursed" - it is not a condition, but a statement from G-d.
--- End quote ---
I understand this.
However, if one should not curse Jews even in their unruly times and the whole world were to heed that warning that "those who curseth will be cursed", then how else will Gd perform his justice?
--- End quote ---
He has his ways and agents. Their are animals, natural disaster, cars (for car accidents), diseases, and many other agents. But if the world would be in that perfected state, then their wouldn't have to be a need for it to happen. And justice is not allways executed in this world, so when someone sees very bad people enjoying life, etc. It is for our free choice , but justice will be served one way or another.
--- End quote ---
I accept this principle. What bidding of justice shoudl we do when it comes down to fellow Jews and to gentiles? And what bidding of justice shoudl be done to us by fellow Jews and gentiles if Gd doesn't do it with other agents?
--- End quote ---
The proper court and court systems. Unless one is a rodef and is endangering one's or another's life and the only way to stop them is to kill them.
--- End quote ---
ok good discussion....
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page
Go to full version