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Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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A Woman's Place in Torah
« on: March 04, 2008, 04:53:41 AM »
 A Woman's Place in Torah

From the talks of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson

The role of women in society is changing and now, more than ever, women are asking, "What is my place in Torah?", "Are there limits to the Torah subjects I should study?" The Lubavitcher Rebbe addresses these questions, drawing on eternally relevant Torah principles and applying them within the context of contemporary life.

When G-d told Moshe to prepare the Jews to receive the Torah, He commanded him, "This is what you shall say to the House of Yaakov and speak to the children of Israel."1 Our Sages explain that the "House of Yaakov" refers to Jewish women, and "the children of Israel," to the men;2 i.e., G-d told Moshe to approach the women first.

This order implies a sense of priority. For Torah to be perpetuated among the Jewish people, precedence must be given to Jewish women. Giving such prominence to women may appear questionable in view of several traditional attitudes. Those attitudes, however, are narrow and For Torah to be perpetuated among the Jewish people, precedence must be given to Jewish women restrictive when judged by the objective standard of Torah law and certainly may be considered so within the context of the application of these standards to contemporary society.

Torah law requires a woman to study all the laws and concepts necessary to observe the commandments which she is obligated to fulfill.3 This encompasses a vast scope of knowledge, including the laws of Shabbat, keeping kosher and Family Purity, and many other areas of Jewish law. Indeed, many men would be happy if their Torah knowledge would be as complete.

Women Must be Conscious of the Mystic Dimension of Judaism

Also, among the subjects which a woman must know is Pnimiyus HaTorah, Torah’s mystic dimension. A woman is obligated to fulfill the commandment of knowing G-d, loving Him, fearing Him, and the like. Indeed, the obligation to fulfill these commandments is constant, incumbent upon us every moment of the day.4 The fulfillment of these commandments is dependent on the knowledge of spiritual concepts as implied by the verse, "Know the G-d of your fathers and serve Him with a full heart."5 The study of the inner dimension of Torah is necessary to achieve this knowledge.

Throughout the generations, we have seen women with immense Torah knowledge. The Talmud mentions Bruriah, the daughter of Rabbi Chaninah ben Tradyon and the wife of Rabbi Meir.6 Throughout the Middle Ages, we find records of many women who corrected their husbands’ Torah texts.7 In his memoirs, the Previous Rebbe describes how the Alter Rebbe’s family put a special emphasis on women’s Torah knowledge and the Previous Rebbe educated his own daughters in this spirit.

A Change for the Better in the Present Age

The last generations have witnessed an increase in Jewish women’s Torah study and special schools and institutions were founded for this purpose. Previously, influenced by the principle, "All the glory of the king’s daughter is within," 8 women would be educated by their parents and grandparents at home. As sociological conditions changed and girls left the home environment, schools were established for them.

A similar concept applies regarding the subject matter studied by women. Initially, on the whole, women were not exposed to those aspects of Torah study which were not related to their actual performance of the commandments. At present, however, the sphere of subjects women study has been expanded and includes even abstract concepts that have no immediate application.9

This is also a result of sociological influences. Within the context of our society, women are required to function on a more sophisticated level than ever before, occupying professional positions that require higher knowledge.10 The woman determines the nature of the home environment To prepare themselves for such activities, they should develop their thinking processes in Torah, training themselves to think on an advanced level within the framework of Torah. This will set the tone for their behavior in the world at large.

Sharing One’s Knowledge with Others

Women are characterized by warmth and a tendency to give. It can be assumed that this will prompt them to share the new knowledge they attain with others, in particular, with the members of their families. The Book of Psalms 11 refers to a woman as akeres habayis, a term which can be interpreted, "the foundation of the home." The woman determines the nature of the home environment and the encouragement she gives is crucial in motivating her husband and children to study.

One of the most important dimensions of chinuch (education) is the development of a personal connection with the subject matter. This is stimulated by the love and positive feeling generated by the teacher. Women have greater natural gifts for this approach. Thus, though a father makes an important contribution to a child’s education, his efforts lie primarily in testing the child’s knowledge. In contrast, a mother discusses the subjects her children are learning with them and brings out the dimension which is relevant to their lives. Furthermore, women are at home with a child much more frequently and are more attuned to his day to day feelings. This makes them more capable of communicating the concept in terms which a child can relate to.

When relating the mitzvah to educate our children, our Sages12 used the expression, l’hazhir, also related to word "shining." Through educating children, one’s own knowledge increases to the point where one shines. Thus, the concepts mentioned above should stimulate a cycle of growth. The increase in women’s Torah knowledge should bring about an increase in their efforts to educate others which, in turn, will bring about a greater increase in their own knowledge.

A Messianic Dimension

The Rabbis explain that just as it is a mitzvah to taste the food to be served on Shabbat on Friday,13 at present, in the era directly before the coming of the Mashiach, it is a mitzvah to enjoy a foretaste of the revelations of that age. The Messianic age will be characterized by an abundance of knowledge, "The occupation of the entire world will be solely to know G-d. The Jews will be great sages and know hidden matters."14 Therefore, the present age should also be characterized by increased knowledge.

In practice, women should add to their Torah study. In particular, they should focus their attention on the Aggadic aspects of Torah study as collected in the text Ayn Yaakov, since our Sages have noted the powerful impact this study has on one’s spiritual emotions. Similarly, they should increase their activities to educate others.

These activities will bring about change in the world at large. "Due to the merit of righteous women, our ancestors were redeemed from Egypt."15 Similarly,, the merit of today’s women who raise and educate a generation of children prepared to greet Mashiach will prepare the world for the age when, "the world will be filled with the knowledge of G-d as the waters cover the ocean bed."16

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FOOTNOTES
1.    Shemos 19:3
2.    Mechilta, quoted by Rashi in his commentary to the above verse.
3.    Shulchan Aruch HaRav, Hilchos Talmud Torah 1:14.
4.    See the introductory letter to Sefer HaChinuch.
5.    I Chronicles 28:9.
6.    Pesachim 62b.
7.    Letters of the Previous Rebbe, Vol. 5, p. 336.
8.    Psalms 45:14.
9.    Sotah 20a relates that women should not study the oral law. As explained above, however, the change in a woman’s place in society necessitates a change in this perspective as well. Women who are exposed to the sophistication of contemporary society should prepare themselves for such involvement by developing their thinking processes within Torah, studying not only the practical application, but also the motivating purposes, for keeping the commandments.
10.    There is another positive dimension that results from these sociological changes. Since women are earning money themselves, they should also take a greater role in charitable activities, donating a tenth and preferably a fifth of their income to charity and inviting more guests to their homes.
11.    113:9.
12.    Rashi, Emor 21:1.
13.    Shulchan Aruch HaRav 250:8.
14.    Mishneh Torah, Hilchos Torah 12:5.
15.    Sotah 11b.
16.    Yeshayahu 11:9, See the conclusion of the Mishneh Torah.

newman

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2008, 04:56:11 AM »
Whatever happened to "barefoot and pregnant"? :)

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2008, 06:22:29 AM »
Is that an offer  :::D

I think they advanced a bit since then, oh mighty hunter  ^-^

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2008, 04:03:38 PM »
Didn't read the whole essay, but kinda disagree. Women should learn Halachot related to them, but they shouldn't learn  "Pnimiyus HaTorah, Torah’s mystic dimension". They shouldn't learn Talmud either. A womens role is and should be to primarily have kids and take care of the family. Them learning Torah shouldn't be encouraged as much as men learning Torah. (I mean yes of-course learn Torah, Halachot realting to women, and Mussar (how to act, dress, etc. modestly). BUT their shouldn't be as much of a push for them to learn as much Torah, because they primarily have to raise the next generation.
  Also I did recently hear that big Sefardi Rabbis speaking out agains't women studying Talmud because it does in a way belittle it. I belive that it was Rav Mordechi Eliyahu amoung others who said so.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2008, 07:37:05 PM »
Quote
Also I did recently hear that big Sefaradi Rabbis speaking out agains't women studying Talmud because it does in a way belittle it

Yes they are very much against it. And which brings up the question, women are the very first teachers your child has, therefore the most important. Should not the most important figure in your childs life, also be the most learned?

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2008, 08:21:27 PM »
Quote
Also I did recently hear that big Sefaradi Rabbis speaking out agains't women studying Talmud because it does in a way belittle it

Yes they are very much against it. And which brings up the question, women are the very first teachers your child has, therefore the most important. Should not the most important figure in your childs life, also be the most learned?

Yea, but not in that way. A women is important, and should definitly teach their children the proper path, but some things are just not for them. For example a women should inspire her children with the proper morals, and teach things like stories from the Tannach.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2008, 09:18:19 PM »
Quote
Also I did recently hear that big Sefaradi Rabbis speaking out agains't women studying Talmud because it does in a way belittle it

Yes they are very much against it. And which brings up the question, women are the very first teachers your child has, therefore the most important. Should not the most important figure in your childs life, also be the most learned?

Yea, but not in that way. A women is important, and should definitly teach their children the proper path, but some things are just not for them. For example a women should inspire her children with the proper morals, and teach things like stories from the Tannach.

I think children need to be taught the full information, not just pieces of it.

Offline dibblah

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2008, 09:31:00 PM »
I disagree that women should be in any way dis-enfranchised from the religous and educational requirements of our children. My mother was the one who taught me every teaching from The Tanach and enforced my religious education.

Cultures and upbringing are different throughout the world, but women have a duty to play an equal part in them.

VBR,

dIBBZ NUTZ
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 09:33:51 PM by dibblah »

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2008, 10:01:13 PM »
Rabbi Soloveitchik Zs'l allowed women to learn Talmud, so it is not a clear cut thing if what the Talmud writes is the Halacha.  I can see both sides as in my experience with women and seeing the way they think and read things I could see the logic why most wouldn't be able to learn Talmud properly.  I personally think that women should learn whatever they want to learn.  No woman is actually interested in learning the Talmud to begin with, Tzvi.  They just get mad when you forbid them from doing something (which you like to do). 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 10:03:32 PM by jdl4ever »
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
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Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2008, 10:20:25 PM »
Rabbi Soloveitchik Zs'l allowed women to learn Talmud, so it is not a clear cut thing if what the Talmud writes is the Halacha.  I can see both sides as in my experience with women and seeing the way they think and read things I could see the logic why most wouldn't be able to learn Talmud properly.  I personally think that women should learn whatever they want to learn.  No woman is actually interested in learning the Talmud to begin with, Tzvi.  They just get mad when you forbid them from doing something (which you like to do). 

 Their are some believe me that learn much more then the average man. Even though I do respect them, its still not something that I feel is for them (as do others). The main goal of a women is Tzniut (modesty) is dress, speach and way of life, and that is something that needs to be their numero uno thing. + its problematic where theirs less seperation between the males and females. And another thing would be that females are much more sensitive then men (allthough its kinda changing with different males today who act weak like females sometimes and get offended easily), it would seem awkward having a Mahlokit with a women or a women with another women, and it would seem fed up to scream or talk loud at them (and if you have that then your killing the burning fire, which elevates you and lets you do your battle).
 + its not at all attractive when you see a women knowing too much. And its harder from what I hear for a girl who goes to seminary for some time and then comes back and tries to get married.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline OdKahaneChai

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2008, 10:25:13 PM »
Women can learn Talmud, just not Kabbalah. Most men can't learn Kabbalah either. Men can only learn it if they are married, over 40, and know the whole Torah and Talmud.
That's not true.  The Arizal and R' Nachman of Bretzlav were two of the greatest teachers of Kaballah of all time, and they passed away at 38 and 37.  In these times Jews can learn Kabbalah.

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Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2008, 10:28:00 PM »
Women can learn Talmud, just not Kabbalah. Most men can't learn Kabbalah either. Men can only learn it if they are married, over 40, and know the whole Torah and Talmud.



Can, but the point is that its not for them to go too much into it. (Meaning that its not their purpose, and mission in life). About Kabbalah yes and no. Their are some aspects which is good for everyone (some would say even non-Jews- which is some Mussar, the meaning of life, the greatness of G-d, etc. , but the deep Kabbalah "entering the Pardes"- only should be done be those on a high level- married, over 40, know a lot of Torah, and in control of their physical desires/emotions, etc. (+ its a long cycle where one has to wait to start from the beginning- at least in the biggest Kabbalah Yeshiva today- run by Rav Yaakov Hillel Shlita, which is a 16 year cycle.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: A Woman's Place in Torah
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2008, 07:40:57 PM »
Another reason why I would NOT go to a women's seminary! (like ever)

I know the other reasons  :::D :::D

But there are many good reasons to go as well Mills, some friendships you make there can be life long.  ;)