Save Western Civilization > Save Serbia
What ya think about those?
DALMACIJA:
--- Quote from: Saint Sava on March 19, 2008, 12:36:20 PM ---For anyone to understand: yugoslavia was the mass grave of the Serbian people.
--- End quote ---
It depends from which side you are looking on it.
The communist ideology behind the Yugoslavian federation which existed from 1945 till 1989 was the grave of the Serbian people. Because the heads of that state were persons who probably had followed some kind of a great anti-Serbian plan.
But the idea of a Yugoslav state was not bad for the Serbs.
It is a fact that the Serbs were the only defenders of Yugoslavia during it's collapse which started in 1990.
Yugoslavia gave the Serbs the opportunity to live together under one state and under equal rights.
Saint Sava:
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 12:51:59 PM ---Well, I was among Croats and I see it a little bit different.
The Croats hate the Serbs first of all because they selves were once also Serbian.
They shame them selves because of the fact that their forefathers were fallen Serbs who accepted the Roman-Catholic religion.
Their connection to the Serbian nation was ended and they stopped being a part of the most heroic nation from the Balkans which has also an old civilization and a great tradition and religion.
--- End quote ---
You are absolutely right, but I was searching for those who still can have contacts with Serbs, and I observed that it could only be when those Serbs are "Serbs" or "yugoslavian uber alles", or dumms who tomorrow will becam albanians, croats, bosnians, macedonians or whatever except Serbs.
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 12:59:19 PM ---It depends from which side you are looking on it.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately no.
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 12:59:19 PM ---The communist ideology behind the Yugoslavian federation which existed from 1945 till 1989 was the grave of the Serbian people. Because the heads of that state were persons who probably had followed a some kind of great anti-Serbian plan.
--- End quote ---
Exactly.
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 12:59:19 PM ---But the idea of a Yugoslav state was not bad for the Serbs.
--- End quote ---
Sorry about that, but I think you're misinformed. The "jugoslavian project" dated 200 years ago, when Austrohungarian, willing to invade all the Balkans, aimed the unification of all the territories living on it. They first started to destroy Serbian language, to close to Orthodoxy, so to Russia for their taste. They picked up someone who would work in destroying it and found Vuk Karadzic. Because of his language "reform" (for which no Serbian intellectual at that time accepted the role of "reformator"), forced into Serbian schools some 150 years ago, Catholic Serbs, were "croaticized". If we look with more attention on where are leaders and mass executers of oustachi from WW2 from, we'll notice that they are in big majority from those regions in Hercegovina, Bosnia and Slavonia were there used to be Catholic Serbs before beeing treted by austrohungarian imperia as "croats"! That was because the "reform" of the Serbian language gave also birth to an official croatian language and, for "brtoherhood-unity" both people Serbs and Croats should have had cyrillc AND latin as alphabets. Vuk Karadzic forced bialphabetisation among Serbs while his croat counterpart did not.
We should remember that Vuk Karadzic had only been in school in two or three elementary classes, which, for reforming a language is the equivalent of inventing sthg new in nuclear physics while having stopped going to schooll after the elemenary classes.
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 12:59:19 PM ---It is a fact that the Serbs were the only defenders of Yugoslavia during it's collapse which started in 1990.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately right, but understoodable. When comunnist took power in Serbia in 1945, thanks to 1 MILLION soviet army soldiers who entered in Serbia until the Drina river in october 1944 disarmed Draza Mihailovic chetniks with who they freed serbian towns from germans occupation. So from 1945 to 1948, tens of thousands of people, even members of the Serbian society elite were killed. Serbian society was dismembered and replaced with an illiterate elite, whose only quality was to be strong obeissance to the regime. So arriving in 1990, there is barly no one to be a honnest Serbian who would take distances with communist occupation and "culture"
On the other hand, from 1945 until 1990, if we trust the memorries of a retired BND spy (german intelligence agency), west of the Drina river, the yugoslavian secret service were forming a parallel secret service working for the BND, which was formed to prepare secession of croatia, slovenia and bosnia from yugoslavia. The leaders of those people was Stevo Krajacic, who in the 1970is was pretty old and ill so he trained several successors among hich we find... Franjo Tudjman and Stipe Mesic, now former and actual president of croatia.
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 12:59:19 PM ---Yugoslavia gave the Serbs the opportunity to live together under one state and under equal rights.
--- End quote ---
This was austrohungarian, and after, communist propaganda serving their own interests.
The fact is that when Serbs were living together, they haven't called their country that name, but Kingdom of Serbia, or Serbian duke, kingdom of Bosnia, etc...
Do you really think that Serbs united with ex ennemies in WW1 and then WW2 were that united and benefited from any rights? While Serbia alone lost roughly half of its population in WW1 (and how about Balkanic wars of 1912-13), forming a kingdom with ennemis prevented Serbia to benefit from due reparation to restaure its society. While the Serbian land was massacred, croatia and slovenia haven't felt the pain during WW1 but were austrohungrian allies.
Is there any other exemple in Europe where ennemies after a war were united into the same country? No, and the reason understands why.
DALMACIJA:
Thanks for your comment!
So you have no positive thoughts about Vuk Karadzic?
The option of the Serbian nation was to remain in Yugoslavia during the beginning of the nineties. It was also the ligal right of the Serbs to protect the integrity and soveregnity of Yugoslavia.
The EU/ Vatican were benifited with the collapse of Yugoslavia!
Because after the collapse of Yugoslavia, the process of the separation of Serbia could start. Today the seperation of Kosovo from Serbia is taking place.
DALMACIJA:
--- Quote from: Saint Sava on March 19, 2008, 01:41:24 PM ---Sorry about that, but I think you're misinformed. The "jugoslavian project" dated 200 years ago, when Austrohungarian, willing to invade all the Balkans, aimed the unification of all the territories living on it.
--- End quote ---
Of course the ideology of Yugoslavia was the loss of the Serbian nation in 1918 and in 1945.
I did not say the SRFJ was good for the Serbs!
But I was talking about the Yugoslavian idea which was supported by the Serbs in 1990. The idea to remain in Yugoslavia.
Saint Sava:
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 02:01:54 PM ---So you have no positive thoughts about Vuk Karadzic?
--- End quote ---
Not at all, knowing he was only the tool with which austrohungarian (and Vatican as you quote it often) used to weaken Serbian resistance to invasion by destroying their culture and language. I suggest to every Serb (unfortunately I haven't heard it was translated) to download the following book which makes understand that injustice toward Serb has a very old tradition: http://www.pogledi.co.yu/15.php
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 02:01:54 PM ---The EU/ Vatican were benifited with the collapse of Yugoslavia!
--- End quote ---
More Germany than EU. I remember German governemment blackmailing the other EU member states in January 1992, saying they will withdraw from the Euro program if EU countries don't follow Vatican and German recognition of "idnependance" of Slovenia and Croatia.
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 02:01:54 PM ---Because after the collapse of Yugoslavia, the process of the separation of Serbia could start. Today the seperation of Kosovo from Serbia is taking place.
--- End quote ---
This time, it is not the end. The separation is taking place fictiveley, mediaticaly: as soon as "international" forces will withdraw from their, albanians will have to run very fast toward the Adriatic sea if they want to find soem safe place. >:(
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 02:06:56 PM ---Of course the ideology of Yugoslavia was the loss of the Serbian nation in 1918 and in 1945.
I did not say the SRFJ was good for the Serbs!
--- End quote ---
I know but understood you found Kingdom of jugoslavija good for Serbs?
--- Quote from: DALMACIJA on March 19, 2008, 02:01:54 PM ---But I was talking about the Yugoslavian idea which was supported by the Serbs in 1990. The idea to remain in Yugoslavia.
--- End quote ---
Problem at that time too was on the ground, where it had strong ideological taste: the communist officers in the jugoslavian army, even if Serbs by blood, felt mostly more disturbed by some Serbs they met wearing Serbian signs, threatening them of execution, even if truely ustashis were shooting at them!
But I of course understand the diplomatic idea.
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