Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Would you buy Cholent from an Amalekite?
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 18, 2008, 05:44:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 18, 2008, 04:32:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 18, 2008, 01:04:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 17, 2008, 04:40:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 17, 2008, 03:47:35 PM ---I was just reading Jdl4ever's exasperation at this Satmar Rabbi very interesting non-literal interpretation of the commandment to wipe out Amalek.
I have to tell you this story about this Satmar guy very interesting non-literal interpretation of Who and What Amalek is.
On Friday, I went into this Satmar take out food store to get ready made food. Like Cholent, Kishke, Shnitzel, Gefilte Fish. Shabbos Food so that my wife can have a week off of cooking.
When I walked in, this Satmar guy said " Parashat Zachor!!!!!!!!!! Amalek!!!!!!!!!!!! I should merit to exterminate Amalek out of myself."
I said " What do you mean?"
He said "I have Amalek in me."
I said "You do?!?!?!"
He said "Yes."
Then I said "Then I'm not going to shop here."
--- End quote ---
Everyone has Amalek in them.
--- End quote ---
It was precisely the inability to understand the difference between pshat and drush that causes people to say things like the Satmars and, apparently you, do.
This is one of the biggest problems with Haredi education. People's heads are swimming in drush and they can't recognize pshat even if they trip over it.
Also the concept of "Ain hamikra Yotzei midei pshuto''(The Verse doesn't leave it's simple meaning) is completely incomprehensible to most people educated in Haredi schools.
And if you don't beleive me, ask a person educated in haredi schools to tell you over the story of Purim and you will quickly realize that they have no ability to distinguish between what is written in the Megillah and what is written in the Midrash.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately for you, though, the drosh is also correct. And even you must acknowledge that today we do not know who Amalek is.
--- End quote ---
I'm not doubting the correctness and depth and beauty of drush but I think that people submit it instead of pshat and that is very dangerous because it perverts Torah concepts as jdl4ever's Rabbi has clearly done.
--- End quote ---
How has he perverted Torah concepts?
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
Actually Amaleks mission was a fight agains't G-d. In order to "get" G-d they attack Israel, who is associated with G-d.
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 19, 2008, 05:55:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 19, 2008, 12:14:30 AM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 18, 2008, 11:42:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 18, 2008, 10:12:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on March 18, 2008, 09:48:20 PM ---There is the concept of Amalek besides being descended from Amalek. Jew haters are spiritually Amalek even if not physically.
--- End quote ---
Why must you consider them "Amalek"? There are evil people in the world who AREN'T Amalek...
--- End quote ---
It's funny how you find it ridiculous to call someone who wishes to wipe the Jewish people off the face of the earth "Amalek."
And yet you find it completely normal to refer to a bad Character Trait or Doubts in Faith as "Amalek."
--- End quote ---
Amalek's objective was not to wipe out the Jewish people. It was to cool them down from their spiritual high.
--- End quote ---
Wow, man!!!!!!!!!
Far Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OKC, you are so used to drush, you have no idea what pshat is.
According to you, Amalek just want to kill our chill.
You are actually quite amusing.
--- End quote ---
But not as amusing as your stoner reference... ::)
And if by "chill", you mean complete faith in and closeness with HaKodosh Boruch Hu, then yes, that's absolutely right.
And you still haven't answered my question...
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 19, 2008, 06:01:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 18, 2008, 05:44:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 18, 2008, 04:32:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 18, 2008, 01:04:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 17, 2008, 04:40:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 17, 2008, 03:47:35 PM ---I was just reading Jdl4ever's exasperation at this Satmar Rabbi very interesting non-literal interpretation of the commandment to wipe out Amalek.
I have to tell you this story about this Satmar guy very interesting non-literal interpretation of Who and What Amalek is.
On Friday, I went into this Satmar take out food store to get ready made food. Like Cholent, Kishke, Shnitzel, Gefilte Fish. Shabbos Food so that my wife can have a week off of cooking.
When I walked in, this Satmar guy said " Parashat Zachor!!!!!!!!!! Amalek!!!!!!!!!!!! I should merit to exterminate Amalek out of myself."
I said " What do you mean?"
He said "I have Amalek in me."
I said "You do?!?!?!"
He said "Yes."
Then I said "Then I'm not going to shop here."
--- End quote ---
Everyone has Amalek in them.
--- End quote ---
It was precisely the inability to understand the difference between pshat and drush that causes people to say things like the Satmars and, apparently you, do.
This is one of the biggest problems with Haredi education. People's heads are swimming in drush and they can't recognize pshat even if they trip over it.
Also the concept of "Ain hamikra Yotzei midei pshuto''(The Verse doesn't leave it's simple meaning) is completely incomprehensible to most people educated in Haredi schools.
And if you don't beleive me, ask a person educated in haredi schools to tell you over the story of Purim and you will quickly realize that they have no ability to distinguish between what is written in the Megillah and what is written in the Midrash.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately for you, though, the drosh is also correct. And even you must acknowledge that today we do not know who Amalek is.
--- End quote ---
I'm not doubting the correctness and depth and beauty of drush but I think that people submit it instead of pshat and that is very dangerous because it perverts Torah concepts as jdl4ever's Rabbi has clearly done.
--- End quote ---
How has he perverted Torah concepts?
--- End quote ---
By claiming that all of the references to fighting and wars in the Tanakh actually refer to spiritual not physical battles, that Rabbi was perverting Torah concepts to fit his view of the Torah as a Book of Ascetic Pacifism.
It is not.
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 19, 2008, 10:36:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 19, 2008, 06:01:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 18, 2008, 05:44:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 18, 2008, 04:32:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 18, 2008, 01:04:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 17, 2008, 04:40:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on March 17, 2008, 03:47:35 PM ---I was just reading Jdl4ever's exasperation at this Satmar Rabbi very interesting non-literal interpretation of the commandment to wipe out Amalek.
I have to tell you this story about this Satmar guy very interesting non-literal interpretation of Who and What Amalek is.
On Friday, I went into this Satmar take out food store to get ready made food. Like Cholent, Kishke, Shnitzel, Gefilte Fish. Shabbos Food so that my wife can have a week off of cooking.
When I walked in, this Satmar guy said " Parashat Zachor!!!!!!!!!! Amalek!!!!!!!!!!!! I should merit to exterminate Amalek out of myself."
I said " What do you mean?"
He said "I have Amalek in me."
I said "You do?!?!?!"
He said "Yes."
Then I said "Then I'm not going to shop here."
--- End quote ---
Everyone has Amalek in them.
--- End quote ---
It was precisely the inability to understand the difference between pshat and drush that causes people to say things like the Satmars and, apparently you, do.
This is one of the biggest problems with Haredi education. People's heads are swimming in drush and they can't recognize pshat even if they trip over it.
Also the concept of "Ain hamikra Yotzei midei pshuto''(The Verse doesn't leave it's simple meaning) is completely incomprehensible to most people educated in Haredi schools.
And if you don't beleive me, ask a person educated in haredi schools to tell you over the story of Purim and you will quickly realize that they have no ability to distinguish between what is written in the Megillah and what is written in the Midrash.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately for you, though, the drosh is also correct. And even you must acknowledge that today we do not know who Amalek is.
--- End quote ---
I'm not doubting the correctness and depth and beauty of drush but I think that people submit it instead of pshat and that is very dangerous because it perverts Torah concepts as jdl4ever's Rabbi has clearly done.
--- End quote ---
How has he perverted Torah concepts?
--- End quote ---
By claiming that all of the references to fighting and wars in the Tanakh actually refer to spiritual not physical battles, that Rabbi was perverting Torah concepts to fit his view of the Torah as a Book of Ascetic Pacifism.
It is not.
--- End quote ---
When did THAT happen in the story?
Or are you just bringing up a midrash... ::)
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