Miles Davis - 'unreconstructed black man' - definitely!

[wonderfulgoy]

He was more interested in white and Jewish women than in his trumpet.  I suspect they liked one of his 'trumpets' more than the other.   



Miles Davis seducing Jeanne Moreau (1957)


The Prince of Darkness, as he became known, ranted so much about race and prejudice that some acquaintances believed he was the one with racial prejudice. (Although, as Troupe noted, Davis never balked at working with white musicians. And he was romantically involved with several white women.) He often performed with his back to his audience, and berated fans who dared approach him.

Famously fond of cool cars and hot women, Davis had an erratic personal life that included heroin and cocaine addiction, pimping and spousal abuse. "I actually left running for my life - more than once," his former wife, Frances Davis, recalled in a telephone interview. A former Broadway dancer, her own career faltered after she left the hit musical West Side Story because Davis told her, "A woman should be with her man." She now says any screen depiction must be truthful about both his artistry and his rage.

... Troupe has often described David as an "unreconstructed black man," unapologetic and proud.  "Miles did not want to smile.  He was not going to be Louis Armstrong," he says.  "As far as Miles being racist, the last woman he was with was Jewish."



Source: Page 7 of the Scotsman Critique, Saturday 16 December 2006

[Scriabin]

He was more interested in white and Jewish women than in his trumpet.  I suspect they liked one of his 'trumpets' more than the other.   



Miles Davis seducing Jeanne Moreau (1957)


The Prince of Darkness, as he became known, ranted so much about race and prejudice that some acquaintances believed he was the one with racial prejudice. (Although, as Troupe noted, Davis never balked at working with white musicians. And he was romantically involved with several white women.) He often performed with his back to his audience, and berated fans who dared approach him.

Famously fond of cool cars and hot women, Davis had an erratic personal life that included heroin and cocaine addiction, pimping and spousal abuse. "I actually left running for my life - more than once," his former wife, Frances Davis, recalled in a telephone interview. A former Broadway dancer, her own career faltered after she left the hit musical West Side Story because Davis told her, "A woman should be with her man." She now says any screen depiction must be truthful about both his artistry and his rage.

... Troupe has often described David as an "unreconstructed black man," unapologetic and proud.  "Miles did not want to smile.  He was not going to be Louis Armstrong," he says.  "As far as Miles being racist, the last woman he was with was Jewish."



Source: Page 7 of the Scotsman Critique, Saturday 16 December 2006

He was a white-hater.  Now all the self-hating whites and Jews think he is greater than Beethoven and Bach.

[genteelgentile]

He did calm down with the racial stuff somewhat after the mid 60's, to be fair.  But there were times he was a grade-A bunghole!  I personally like Miles Davis's music.  It's [censored]-licious!!!!

[MassuhDGoodName]

Miles Davis --  American Original

Most artistic genius is accompanied by what I personally describe (for lack of a better description) as a persona which is "power-packed"; that is to say, the artist is an artist precisely because of an "overload" of personality and sensitivity (more often than not with accompanying bouts of clinical depression).

His personal interviews were always most remarkable for their total unadulterated honesty.
I remember him once being asked about what it was like as a young black musician struggling to survive and "living the blues" as his prerequisite to making his mark in the world of music.  He replied with some degree of ridicule directed at his female talk show host; stating flatly that he never once suffered a day in his life; that early on he was a professional pimp when not on stage or rehearsing, and that he always made a very good living.
Another time, while being interviewed about his numerous drummers throughout his career, he said that by watching a player walk into a room he knew immediately whether or not the player in question was a true musician and artist; stating that the body language which emanated "balance" was the revealing trait; poseurs and other "show business types" he knew by their lack of self-contained "balance" which they radiated.

"The Holy One, in His Infinite Wisdom, confoundeth even Himself!"

[Scriabin]

Miles Davis --  American Original

Most artistic genius is accompanied by what I personally describe (for lack of a better description) as a persona which is "power-packed"; that is to say, the artist is an artist precisely because of an "overload" of personality and sensitivity (more often than not with accompanying bouts of clinical depression).

His personal interviews were always most remarkable for their total unadulterated honesty.
I remember him once being asked about what it was like as a young black musician struggling to survive and "living the blues" as his prerequisite to making his mark in the world of music.  He replied with some degree of ridicule directed at his female talk show host; stating flatly that he never once suffered a day in his life; that early on he was a professional pimp when not on stage or rehearsing, and that he always made a very good living.
Another time, while being interviewed about his numerous drummers throughout his career, he said that by watching a player walk into a room he knew immediately whether or not the player in question was a true musician and artist; stating that the body language which emanated "balance" was the revealing trait; poseurs and other "show business types" he knew by their lack of self-contained "balance" which they radiated.

"The Holy One, in His Infinite Wisdom, confoundeth even Himself!"

I also like his music.  I think he was very talented, his sound is utterly recognizable. 

For my taste, there are two things about Miles that I don't agree with artisticly.

1)  He was obsessed with being 'cool'.  What is 'coolness' but an emotional IMBALANCE?  A real artist expresses the totality of human emotion...and I'm sorry to say, that cannot be accomplished by a person obsessed with emotional numbness.

2)  There is so much truly great music that I have little time for entertainment.

[fake plastic trees]

Miles Davies revolutionised jazz music... a true musician of his day... and yes he was up there with Beethoven and Bach, but his music should be judged differently from his personality.  Religious people would accept the genius of his music as well as his personal shortcomings.

[Scriabin]

Miles Davies revolutionised jazz music...and yes he was up there with Beethoven and Bach.

Because you said so?   

Stick to topics you understand, grasshopper.

[fake plastic trees]

Miles Davies revolutionised jazz music...and yes he was up there with Beethoven and Bach.

Because you said so?   

Stick to topics you understand, grasshopper.

*coughs* i'm a musician for a hobby, and i have a good deal of knowledge on swing and contemporary jazz as well as most classical music

I believe YOU are the one who does not understand the topic, and please stop using patronising language like that because it will deter people from joining JTF and so on.  Try researching your topic before you start disagreeing with people.

[MarZutra]

Actually to be fair I do like Miles Davis' music but detest him as a person like most actors and musicians today.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...But he was arrested so many times for drug posession. And to my understanding didnt his father lock him in a closet to get him off heroin?..."

Yes, that's true.
But what "Big Daddy" didn't know, was that the closet was the place where Miles kept his stash!

[Scriabin]

Miles Davies revolutionised jazz music...and yes he was up there with Beethoven and Bach.

Because you said so?   

Stick to topics you understand, grasshopper.

*coughs* i'm a musician for a hobby, and i have a good deal of knowledge on swing and contemporary jazz as well as most classical music

I believe YOU are the one who does not understand the topic, and please stop using patronising language like that because it will deter people from joining JTF and so on.  Try researching your topic before you start disagreeing with people.

As far as music is concerned, you have no idea what kind of an authority you are speaking to.  I have ample facts to support my arguments.

You are the one lumping Davis with Beethoven and Bach!  Such nonsense.

This kind of thinking is nothing but politically correct rubbish.  People like you will soon put Tupac Shakur in the class of Beethoven.

You think that I give JTF a bad reputation?  You're a comedian.

If you like, we can ask the administrators if I should leave.  If they say so, I will.

[fake plastic trees]

Miles Davies revolutionised jazz music...and yes he was up there with Beethoven and Bach.

Because you said so?   

Stick to topics you understand, grasshopper.

*coughs* i'm a musician for a hobby, and i have a good deal of knowledge on swing and contemporary jazz as well as most classical music

I believe YOU are the one who does not understand the topic, and please stop using patronising language like that because it will deter people from joining JTF and so on.  Try researching your topic before you start disagreeing with people.

As far as music is concerned, you have no idea what kind of an authority you are speaking to.  I have ample facts to support my arguments.

You are the one lumping Davis with Beethoven and Bach!  Such nonsense.

This kind of thinking is nothing but politically correct rubbish.  People like you will soon put Tupac Shakur in the class of Beethoven.

You think that I give JTF a bad reputation?  You're a comedian.

If you like, we can ask the administrators if I should leave.  If they say so, I will.

Facts? Music is about opinion.  How dare you suggest your "facts" are authority... evaluation of music has no concrete facts.

Miles Davis was as fundamental to the evolution of music as Beethoven and Bach, if not more so, because he actually progressed music forwards rather than composing fantastic music which failed to move music onwards.

And I still object to the "grasshopper" comment... would you want to join a serious forum where people with slightly contrasting opinions are patronised?  Ask the administrators at will whether you should leave, I believe you have committed no violation of the terms of the forum, but I suggest you calm your act down towards people with contrasting opinions.  The very terms of the forum suggest that it should be used to sharpen debating technique, and you are being immature by patronising people. You are also not encouraging reasonable debate, and instead resorting to name-calling.  In conclusion, I don't want you to leave, BUT I would appreciate it if you stopped the petty name-calling.

[Scriabin]

Miles Davies revolutionised jazz music...and yes he was up there with Beethoven and Bach.

Because you said so?   

Stick to topics you understand, grasshopper.

*coughs* i'm a musician for a hobby, and i have a good deal of knowledge on swing and contemporary jazz as well as most classical music

I believe YOU are the one who does not understand the topic, and please stop using patronising language like that because it will deter people from joining JTF and so on.  Try researching your topic before you start disagreeing with people.

As far as music is concerned, you have no idea what kind of an authority you are speaking to.  I have ample facts to support my arguments.

You are the one lumping Davis with Beethoven and Bach!  Such nonsense.

This kind of thinking is nothing but politically correct rubbish.  People like you will soon put Tupac Shakur in the class of Beethoven.

You think that I give JTF a bad reputation?  You're a comedian.

If you like, we can ask the administrators if I should leave.  If they say so, I will.

Facts? Music is about opinion.  How dare you suggest your "facts" are authority... evaluation of music has no concrete facts.

Miles Davis was as fundamental to the evolution of music as Beethoven and Bach, if not more so, because he actually progressed music forwards rather than composing fantastic music which failed to move music onwards.

And I still object to the "grasshopper" comment... would you want to join a serious forum where people with slightly contrasting opinions are patronised?  Ask the administrators at will whether you should leave, I believe you have committed no violation of the terms of the forum, but I suggest you calm your act down towards people with contrasting opinions.  The very terms of the forum suggest that it should be used to sharpen debating technique, and you are being immature by patronising people. You are also not encouraging reasonable debate, and instead resorting to name-calling.  In conclusion, I don't want you to leave, BUT I would appreciate it if you stopped the petty name-calling.

Not all 'opinions' are equal.

[fake plastic trees]

And you think that by saying this, this immediately absolves you from everything? This is the superiority which JTF desperately needs to avoidto attract new members.

And reasoned/logical opinions are equal, and this is why I would say that my opinion holds no more value than yours... it is a matter of PERSONAL judgement and by saying opinions are not equal, you are effectivelky saying that you are a better person than me. In conclusion, don't rubbish other peoples opinions... this is a forum for debate, after all!

[Jizzepie]

Put down the handbags, laydeez.

[Scriabin]

I feel that Snoop Dogg and Filthy Scent are greater than Bach and Mozart.

How's that for an intelligent 'opinion'?

[fake plastic trees]

I feel that Snoop Dogg and Filthy Scent are greater than Bach and Mozart.

How's that for an intelligent 'opinion'?

If you can back this up with reasonable logic, then yes, that opinion is also equal.  I doubt you can, but for all I know you could consider Snoop Dogg the catalyst for evolution of modern rap... and if you did that is your opinion.  The fact is, my opinion is considered to be true by many jazz musicians like myself.  If you disagree, then that's up to you, but that doesn't make my opinion wrong. 

[MarZutra]

I like Jazz, Blues, Big Band and of course Classical.  I absolutely detest that rap, hip-hop sub-human filth....so my opinion is not needed...lol