Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Jews who eat pork.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Khazan on April 07, 2008, 08:09:24 PM ---
Moses was tripping acacia according to an Israeli scientist. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=525993&in_page_id=1770
--- End quote ---
First of all, you have to be an idiot if you believe that story (no offense). The guy has no scientific evidence to back him up, no proof, no suggestions. He simply made up the idea and sold it as fact. His stupidity is even further evident by the fact that he hasn't even bothered to read the Torah passages in depth that deal with the subject he speaks of!!! So, no scientific evidence AND no Torah evidence. Wow, real convincing. Here is a comment I put in another thread that discussed this topic:
He must not have kept reading. Someone should show this "researcher" the Torah. You know, the part that says,
--- Quote ---"For ask now regarding the early days that were before you, since the day that G-d created man upon the earth, and from one end of the heavens to the other end of the heavens, whether there was anything like this great thing, or was the likes of it heard?
Did ever a people hear G-d's voice speaking out of the midst of the fire as you have heard, and live?
Or has any G-d performed miracles to come and take him a nation from the midst of a[nother] nation, with trials, with signs, and with wonders, and with war and with a strong hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great awesome deeds, as all that the Lord your G-d did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
You have been shown, in order to know that the Lord He is G-d; there is none else besides Him"
-Devarim (Deuteronomy) 4:32-35
--- End quote ---
This is the part that says how it was a unique collective revelation experience that no nation would ever experience again. If it was just a run-of-the-mill drug high that anyone could get from some tree bark, then surely it would have happened again to many groups of people, millions of times. The Torah itself lets us know that this person's theory is insane. Some researcher. Looks like he never even reviewed the text...
Now:
--- Quote from: Khazan on April 07, 2008, 08:09:24 PM ---
You suggest that there was no possibility that there were some Israelites [censored] in the tent while wandering for 40 years in the desert?
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Let's put it this way. If any Israelite was doing that, then he was sinning by doing it. Just like if you or any of us did it. But most likely, that particular sin was not such a challenge for them back then as it is for us, for many many reasons.
Khazan:
I just thought that was an interesting theory.
How do you mean they would not have the challenges to commit the sin of self abuse (there, I think I found an apt term for that) back then as we do now? And if it were committed, lets say ma walks in, how would the sin have been treated? Have any of you read Portnoy's complaint by the way? It's a rather comedic book that goes into the sexual development of a Jewish boy growing up in New York, a good read.
The bit about the Yeminite torah I found here
"The fact is, that after all the trials and tribulations, communal dislocations and persecutions, only the Yemenite Torah scrolls contain any difference from the rest of world Jewry. For hundreds of years, the Yemenite community was not part of the global checking system, and a total of nine letter-differences are found in their scrolls."
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/torahaccuracy.htm
Granted, it's still the same torah with exception to the 9 spelling variants, which is good enough for government work when you consider the amount of errors in the christian new testament, many of which change the meaning of the text.
With that in mind, I'll say that the Torah is a work that I fear and respect. Now, I know you'll think in lieu of what I have said that I do not respect the torah, but that is my way of respecting it. By showing a degree of disrespect (more being a smart-ass) I end up respecting it mores so. Some of it does not make sense to me, some of it at times seems pure fables and fiction, but I always end up falling back on the side of this is a special text.
ThunderAppeal:
By showing a degree of disrespect (more being a smart-donkey) I end up respecting it mores so. Some of it does not make sense to me, some of it at times seems pure fables and fiction, but I always end up falling back on the side of this is a special text.
This is some hokey buddhist crap. 'By showing a degree of disrespect you are showing respect', thats like saying two wrongs make a right.
Example:
I support Serbia but my support for Serbia ends at its eastern borders and does not automatically translate into support for russia.I do NOT support china for the same reasons. My support for Serbia is not to curry favor with any eastern bloc country. My support for Serbia is for the sake of society, for the sake of a nations sovereignty. Had Clinton stayed out of Serbia at the very least America would have had far more powerful allies with islamofascism. In fact had Clinton assisted Serbia America would have had a far more powerful ally in eastern europe and against islamofasicsm and russia would not have had the political pull it does today.
There are misguided so-called Jews who support albania. Why would they do that?Because in their minds supporting albania is as if opposing russia. There are people in America who support fidel castrate. Why?Because in their narrow little minds they see castro as the counter balance to American superiority.
Futhermore you arent talking about respect or disrespect, what YOU are doing is babbling on about something that you have no clue about. Much like some people support illegal immigration, they think that if all of a sudden if the flow was shut the well would run dry. That is false.
Again if you need mental help go see a Rabbi or a mental health professional.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Khazan on April 08, 2008, 02:16:51 AM ---
I just thought that was an interesting theory.
How do you mean they would not have the challenges to commit the sin of self abuse (there, I think I found an apt term for that) back then as we do now?
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Firstly, we are not interested in wacked out "theories" that some drug peddlar "discovers" in his basement or in his dreams. We have the truth as attested to by our forefathers and as WITNESSED in a mass revelation of G-d on Mt. Sinai, witnessed by the nation of Israel. We protected and safeguarded this holy truth, which contains not only this supernatural experience on the mountain, but also the scores of other miracles provided for the Jewish people by Hashem throughout the text. Of course, that is yet another shortsightedness of this guy's despicable theory, but we've already refuted him. Back on the subject matter at hand, also contained in this text are the prophesies fulfilled and those we still await, and we will cherish this gift from G-d and treat it with the dignity and honor it deserves.
I understand if you mean that asking tough questions, and deep philosophical questions about Torah causes you to have more respect for the work. Of course pursue those questions, and we all do/should. But this was not what you displayed here. Instead, you used disgusting language and immaturity that is entirely inappropriate for the holiness of our sacred Torah. So watch the language and try to have respect by having... respect, rather than disrespect. There are ways to question (even on topics like this that are sexual or graphic in nature) without doing so in a brazen immature fashion that puts a negative or insolent remark against the Torah, G-d forbid, or slanders our great Jewish prophets and leaders, G-d forbid.
As to your question. Well MassuhDgoodname has stated some of the reasons already in this thread. They got married younger, they had sometimes even multiple wives, etc. But I would add this. They were also more righteous than us in those generations. The farther we get away from the generation that received revelation on Mt. Sinai the further removed we are from 'consciousness' of G-d and the more we err (also requires us to build more emunah = faith). This kind of challenge would not only be less challenging (they had other more pressing issues like idol worship, which for us today is not such a challenge), but it would also be easier to resist even thinking bad thoughts due to the modest environment, societal norms etc. I would also note that our generation is consumed by sex. It is all around us, women expose themselves, nudity is everywhere, and immodest behavior has become the norm, university/frat style parties are the accepted way to 'have fun.' This is not only new in the modern world vs. the ancient, this is fairly new compared to the 1940's and 50's when women did dress modestly. It is difficult to imagine what the world looked like then. In the modern period, we also have dirty magazines and all the other filth that gets circulated and through the internet, and men get into bad habits - and quickly in life. There are many reasons why this subject/sin would be beneath the dignity of those earlier generations. It is unfortunate that we have many men struggling with this problem today, but it is a challenge that can be defeated and we can amass great reward for doing so.
Maybe going in depth on a topic like this one (the 'self abuse' issue) might be more appropriate in a private venue rather than a public forum like this, but it is a legitimate question when framed properly and in a respectful manner.
--- Quote from: Khazan on April 08, 2008, 02:16:51 AM ---
Granted, it's still the same torah with exception to the 9 spelling variants,
--- End quote ---
But every single word is still the same. Even in the Yemenite Torah where they have a few varations on silent letters or spell certain words in a different manner (for instance, a yud in a place where there is no yud elsewhere but the word is pronounced the same way because in both cases it's the same word and can be spelled with a vowel -vowels are not written in Torah script - or with a yud. Thus the yud is unnecessary for the ee sound built into the word. These are the sort of variations we're talking about.) the Torah from front to back is still all the same Hebrew words in the same precise order without exception and pronounced the same (phonetically speaking, of course with varying dialects/accents in different cultures and parts of the world). This is actually quite a feat that we were able to preserve the Torah in such precise authenticity word for word. Of course we were given an Oral Tradition with the instructions on how to transmit the Torah that ensured our potential to do this, and we obviously fanatically cherished it as sacred from G-d so as to not add in our own errors to His holy books, but still it is a pretty underrated literary achievement in my opinion.
Mstislav:
--- Quote from: Yohonathan Ben Yakov on April 06, 2008, 02:50:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: Mstislav on April 04, 2008, 09:48:11 AM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on April 01, 2008, 04:24:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Americanhero on April 01, 2008, 04:10:21 PM ---But if you look at it this way pigs roll around in there fecal matter but Chickens eat theres
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There is more to the prohibition to what animals roll around and eat what-not.
The reason pigs are forbidden is because:
--- Quote ---Mammals that both chew their cud (ruminate) and have cloven hooves are kosher. Animals with one characteristic but not the other (the camel, the hyrax and the hare because they have no cloven hooves, and the pig because it does not ruminate) are specifically excluded (Leviticus 11:3-8).[2]
--- End quote ---
So pigs are forbidden, chicken is kosher because it is not a bird of prey (like eagles or vultures)
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Are goat & duck meats kosher?
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yes
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Thank you.
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