Author Topic: sale of chametz and changing cutlery  (Read 2633 times)

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Offline q_q_

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sale of chametz and changing cutlery
« on: April 29, 2008, 02:25:49 PM »
what is the reason for changing cutlery?
washing cutlery  would remove any chametz.. why do we change it?


I notice that it is not just rabbi bar hayyim who controversially, says that the sale of chametz is problematic.. But Tzvi mentioned that his Rabbi, rabbi mizrachi says it is problematic..

So this question is for tzvi or anybody that has run into this.. what is problematic about the sale?

one thing that occurred to me was the sale just specifies locations of things, not each individual thing. The buyer does not know specifically what he is buying or leasing.. Just items in a certain location.. Is that what is halachically problematic?

A trickier question here..
note- rav mizrachi and rav bar hayyim, say that the sale is problematic or not legit.. presumably, they don't do it.  Most rabbis, do it.
is there a difference in how a rav mizrachi would deal with cutlery, compared to most other rabbis..  e.g. would both say the cutlery is "infected" with chametz.  But perhaps rav mizrachi would declare the chametz ownerless. Whereas most would sell them to the gentile.  In both cases though, I don't see why you cannot use the cutlery.
rav mizrachi said that chametz declared ownerless -cannot- be used. Cannot even be sold to a gentile. That makes sense.. We only declare ownerless, that which we do not want.  But if the cutlery is "infected", then surely we cannot use the cutlery then.. And if the chametz is not "infected", then why can't we use it on pesach?

« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 02:27:38 PM by q_q_ »

Offline TorahZionist

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Re: sale of chametz and changing cutlery
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2008, 02:32:21 PM »
You must get hold of Rav Bar Hayyim's shiur titled "Judaism Today".

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: sale of chametz and changing cutlery
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2008, 03:31:51 PM »
Washing is not enough, one has to properly Kosher it (unless glass for Sefardim which can just be washed). But about the other plates, you can just put them away somewhere and use them after Pessah, same with foods for example canned Tunna Fish that doesn't say Kosher for Pessah, etc. BEFORE Pessah the food is nullified if 1/60th is not for Pessah (Hammetz) and the overwealming majority is allowed, BUT during Pessah not even a crumb is allowed (but that is for foods in water for example, but not if solid foods which is a problem, you cant eat it). + on top of that real Hametz is when you have a Kazayit of bread, and you dont really want the crumbs if it happens to be some in your property (but you should still clean very well anyway).
 ( Ill add more later).
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: sale of chametz and changing cutlery
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008, 03:39:36 PM »
the foods one should get rid of is real Hametz, for example Pasta, bread products, alcoholic beverages, amoung others (products that contain wheat). Just use them up before Pessah, or give them out to a non-Jewish neighbor or maid before Pessah.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline q_q_

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Re: sale of chametz and changing cutlery
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2008, 04:06:27 PM »
Food is clearly an issue because of chametz, and we are quite familiar with it..

I know cutlery is an issue, but why is it an issue though?
how do you kosher it for pesach?

Infact, makes me wonder.. Could one get by with one set of cutlery, pots .. one kettle, e.t.c. and just sort of switch the kashering from non pesach to pesach..

I hadn't heard about koshering things for pesach.. strange.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: sale of chametz and changing cutlery
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2008, 04:48:37 PM »
Food is clearly an issue because of chametz, and we are quite familiar with it..

I know cutlery is an issue, but why is it an issue though?
how do you kosher it for pesach?

Infact, makes me wonder.. Could one get by with one set of cutlery, pots .. one kettle, e.t.c. and just sort of switch the kashering from non pesach to pesach..

I hadn't heard about koshering things for pesach.. strange.

 Same way you Kosher any utensil from non-Kosher to Kosher. Their are different situations and ways you have to kosher everything, and its too long to post here. (you would have to search and find the proper Halachot, if you would like to only use one set all year round).
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/