Kahanist Singles > Jewish Singles
What Do You Think Of Pre-Marital Intimacy And/Or Touching?
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 26, 2008, 11:09:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on May 26, 2008, 11:05:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 26, 2008, 11:00:29 PM ---
Actually my banning polls are for fun and meant to provoke discussion on the topic. I posted this same poll on Yekutiel's forum and it led to a Halachic discussion on the rules of modesty.
Yehudit understands my intentions with the banning polls.
--- End quote ---
Aside from halachic discussion(a cerebral thing), how can it be fun?
Sounds like that guy from the comedy red drawf who gains this cynical pleasure from enforcing really obscure rules.. Except aboard their space ship, was an android who would correct him all the time.. Drove him nuts
android: "Err Sir, Did you say Law 678 Section 14 subsection C? No parking in the lounge?!! "
--- End quote ---
I like to talk about dating subjects. I can't touch women but I like to talk about dating though.
--- End quote ---
That could be useful, even fun
but it's a world away from suggesting that a conversation revolving around Let's ban this, let's ban that, is fun. It is not fun. As as evident.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 26, 2008, 10:25:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: DownwithIslam on May 26, 2008, 10:11:07 PM ---Wow, this has really turned into some thread. I think it is very admirable for a person to be as moral as Yacov. It really is something respectable. I just think that most men with healthy testosterone levels cannot be as strict as you are advocating in regards to the topic at hand. Yacov, your self control is quite rare.
--- End quote ---
Even if I didn't have self-control, who would I sin with by kissing before marriage? I can't just find an attractive woman and tell her I want to kiss her. That's sexual harassment. And doing it by force is sexual assault. I have no one to kiss even if I wanted to and whenever I tried to find someone, they always rejected me. I never really become friendly with women other than on The Internet and the one time I had an Internet g/f, they was just playing with me and went back to her old b/f after he forgave her for kissing another man. I was sad and depressed until finally meeting her later on and she let me kiss her and she kissed me on the cheek but I have never kissed anyone on the lips and she was the last girl I kissed at all. That was on the day The Oslo War started when the fat pig Ariel Sharon went to The Temple Mount. I heard the news of the beginning of the riots at my grandmother's house near Haifa and then I left for Jerusalem to meet her that evening. I came back the same night. The first time I tried to meet her she didn't arrive because she thought I wasn't coming. Luckily next time I had her cell phone. After that she didn't want to see me again after I messaged her on Yahoo Messenger. She said I mean nothing to her, not even as a friend. I cried but then I got over her. But if I hadn't met her I would have never gotten over her. I was in distress until I met her. She was just using me on The Internet. She wasn't being serious but I was. Every once and a while I still have dreams about her.
--- End quote ---
ummm, no of course you don't just go up to girl and tell her that you want to kiss her..even the more immoral people don't do that...like a normal human being you go on dates and get to know the girl and vice versa...
The one issue with being obsessed wtih kissing is that you become blind to a girl's beauty...so one choice is to get it out of the system or simply stop obssessing and dating..even if it means 20 girls for one date.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 26, 2008, 11:09:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on May 26, 2008, 11:05:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 26, 2008, 11:00:29 PM ---
Actually my banning polls are for fun and meant to provoke discussion on the topic. I posted this same poll on Yekutiel's forum and it led to a Halachic discussion on the rules of modesty.
Yehudit understands my intentions with the banning polls.
--- End quote ---
Aside from halachic discussion(a cerebral thing), how can it be fun?
Sounds like that guy from the comedy red drawf who gains this cynical pleasure from enforcing really obscure rules.. Except aboard their space ship, was an android who would correct him all the time.. Drove him nuts
android: "Err Sir, Did you say Law 678 Section 14 subsection C? No parking in the lounge?!! "
--- End quote ---
I like to talk about dating subjects. I can't touch women but I like to talk about dating though.
--- End quote ---
instead of talking about dating you should go and date and see what works for you... aren't you 26?
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 27, 2008, 01:12:29 PM ---
Yes, I am 26 but I don't know any women to date. The only women my age I talk to are women on JTF.
--- End quote ---
it helps to be friendly in real life with people have done it.. and most people have. Most people I am friendly with - not many - but those that I am friendly with! Have been through that already. In the modern orthodox world, there is some touching.
From what I understand...
You're not supposed to ask(otherwise it sounds like she's doing you a big favour).. And after a few dates, she is probably expecting some kind of touch anyway..
I know a guy that is a genius - at everything. And he does like to test the waters, he rarely messes up anything. And is very strategic/logical in everything he says and does. He did something minor(a small move), the girl didn't say no.. , so he took that as an OK. He actually then went a bit further. He judged whether the girl was comfortable. And he expressed complete confidence. If he was nervous it would have made the girl nervous.
I guess to some it sounds a bit manipulative.. a bit of a game. But really it's not wrong.. You have to test the waters, but without stepping over the line. If you don't test the waters, you won't move. So he knew that after a few dates, a touch is not crossing the line.. So he had no fear of doing that. You don't ask. The girl doesn't want somebody more timid than her. That's one of the reasons why girls want a partner!
I had a friend that spent a few weeks around a group of many girls - immature ones, to study them.. He came back from his adventure, with a report that they want a trophy, they want somebody to be proud of.. they want to feel protected. It's part of their femininity.
Obviously, in the more mature girls will want other things too, like money so you can live together ok. And in the really religious world, they will want somebody who is somewhat scholarly.. and observant. And these other things can factor in as more important than the whole trophy thing. But you don't want to violate those rules of the simple girl... i.e. you don't want to act like a nervous wimp.
You really need to talk to people in real life, that have done these things. People you know well.. People that are logical, and you trust, somebody who gives good advice. And express all your concerns.. At worst, an uncle, maybe! But preferably a friend of the same age, who is where you plan on being. In real life.. 'cos this is all about a real-life situation that you have a problem with.
I've seen a guy go up to a girl in the street and straighten her blouse!!! I am not suggesting anybody do that. But he managed it, and she was laughing.. Just because he was confident, and had a gentle voice and looked like a lighter version of "The Rock". But the point is, that imagine if he had been nervous, or most guys had done that, she would have screamed. A normal person could not have done it.. But the extreme example shows.. If he had been nervous, it wouldn't have worked.. That's an extreme example demonstrating the principle, regarding nervousness and confidence.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 27, 2008, 01:12:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 27, 2008, 07:36:56 AM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 26, 2008, 11:09:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on May 26, 2008, 11:05:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 26, 2008, 11:00:29 PM ---
Actually my banning polls are for fun and meant to provoke discussion on the topic. I posted this same poll on Yekutiel's forum and it led to a Halachic discussion on the rules of modesty.
Yehudit understands my intentions with the banning polls.
--- End quote ---
Aside from halachic discussion(a cerebral thing), how can it be fun?
Sounds like that guy from the comedy red drawf who gains this cynical pleasure from enforcing really obscure rules.. Except aboard their space ship, was an android who would correct him all the time.. Drove him nuts
android: "Err Sir, Did you say Law 678 Section 14 subsection C? No parking in the lounge?!! "
--- End quote ---
I like to talk about dating subjects. I can't touch women but I like to talk about dating though.
--- End quote ---
instead of talking about dating you should go and date and see what works for you... aren't you 26?
--- End quote ---
Yes, I am 26 but I don't know any women to date. The only women my age I talk to are women on JTF.
--- End quote ---
don't limit yourself with girls your age..or limit yourself even by looks. I'm sure there is a local orthodox rabbi that can help set you up.
I don't think it is healthy to simply yearn about the past "relationships." You need to seriously date girls till you find the one that fits your needs and vice versa.
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