New videos from "3 Jews From Brooklyn"

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

youtube is a largely gentile audience. Are you sure that rabbi mizrachi's kiruv(jewish outreach) videos are appropriate?
or will you just do the non kiruv ones - if there are any.

 I think that the Kiruv one's shoud be put up, and also a link to Torahanytime.com. Also It does not only have to be for Jews, although I think that possibly many Jews expecialy from Israel could go on and see the clips from the professionaly made "DivineInformation" video at www.Divineinformation.com that is in Hebrew with English subtitles.
 Many Jews could possibly see it, but also many gentiles- and why not? Why shouldn't the world know in one G-d, and the Divine information in the Torah. I have browsed many times on youtube, and their is sooo much misinformation about G-d, and also many athiests denying G-d and ridiculing Him. Also their are many missionaires, who should be exposed for their lies, and manybe many of those from amoung the Islamists who would reconcider in following their religion and supporting in blowing up Jews (It Might make a different, or not, but at least tell people about an alternative by presenting the right easily seen and understandable information).

the thing is should we put it up under "3 Jews From Brooklyn" or under a new name like TorahAnyTime

 Not sure, but if you will make another account maybe it should be something like "Divine information" - And the first video's to put would be the Divineinformation video's.

  Maybe ill figure it out, and do the video's but I just dont know how to cut parts from the video, and then put it up on youtube.

[q_q_]

Judaism says we don't teach gentiles Torah

Simple as that. Whether you personally want to teach them, or not.

[q_q_]

Judaism says we don't teach gentiles Torah

Simple as that. Whether you personally want to teach them, or not.

right but we can teach them the 7 Noahide laws

Not if that involves teaching them Torah that is not directly related to it.
You can only teach them things directly related to it. Basics from the early chapters of Genesis.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Judaism says we don't teach gentiles Torah

Simple as that. Whether you personally want to teach them, or not.

right but we can teach them the 7 Noahide laws

 And also the basic tenents of Emuna- believing in one G-d, and that He gave the Torah to the Jews, that the nations have to follow G-d (after KNOWing, and then by following the 7 laws of Noah). Rav Arush Slita said the same thing basicaly, maybe I will find it now and post it BH.

[q_q_]

Judaism says we don't teach gentiles Torah

Simple as that. Whether you personally want to teach them, or not.

right but we can teach them the 7 Noahide laws

 And also the basic tenents of Emuna- believing in one G-d, and that He gave the Torah to the Jews, that the nations have to follow G-d (after KNOWing, and then by following the 7 laws of Noah). Rav Arush Slita said the same thing basicaly, maybe I will find it now and post it BH.

these arguments of judaism's truth involve parts of the contents of torah and gemara.

Rav Mizrachi's shiurim are directed at a jewish audience. 

And once you advertise some, then they will go to his site and watch others.

Shiurim to teach judaism's truth, are Kiruv, they are directed at jewish audiences.
It may be worth asking him if his lectures are for gentiles.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I asked the same question, and this is what I got
"We are allowed (even required) to spread emuna in the world, so therefore we can teach non-Jews anything pertaining to emuna in addition to the 7 Noahide mitzvot. Blessings, SA"

http://www.breslev.co.il/englishforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=323


  http://youtube.com/watch?v=es3T6WGRf4Y - And here is the great Tzaddik, Rav Arush Shlita, asking EVERYONE in the world to pray (at least 10 minutes a day), and get higher Emuna in Hashe-m.

Also read the essay by the student of Rav Bar Haim (I posted it in the Torah section).

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Judaism says we don't teach gentiles Torah

Simple as that. Whether you personally want to teach them, or not.

right but we can teach them the 7 Noahide laws

 And also the basic tenents of Emuna- believing in one G-d, and that He gave the Torah to the Jews, that the nations have to follow G-d (after KNOWing, and then by following the 7 laws of Noah). Rav Arush Slita said the same thing basicaly, maybe I will find it now and post it BH.

these arguments of judaism's truth involve parts of the contents of torah and gemara.

Rav Mizrachi's shiurim are directed at a jewish audience. 

And once you advertise some, then they will go to his site and watch others.

Shiurim to teach judaism's truth, are Kiruv, they are directed at jewish audiences.
It may be worth asking him if his lectures are for gentiles.

 YES, Rav Mizrachi's Shiurim are directed for Jews. And also he did ask if gentiles can learn from his shiurim from another greater Rabbi. I do not remember exactly what he said, but I do think that he said that many of the general things like Emuna are allowed and good for the world, but I do not remember exactly about the rest that he said (and he does say that many gentiles contact him about how they love his video's and that they are Noahides because of him). Anyway the video's for example the video's of proofs (thats what I hope would be most of it, in addition to some of the things pertaining to the answers to missionaries) would be put, with a link to the website, but that is not our responsibility that if gentiles are not allowed and they then go on it. The fact is that their would be some Jews who would see it and benifit. Also its the same in this forum for example, anyone can read the discussions on the Torah section, even though it is directed for the Jews here. And a Jew is not responsible for the actions of people from other nations.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Judaism says we don't teach gentiles Torah

Simple as that. Whether you personally want to teach them, or not.

right but we can teach them the 7 Noahide laws

 And also the basic tenents of Emuna- believing in one G-d, and that He gave the Torah to the Jews, that the nations have to follow G-d (after KNOWing, and then by following the 7 laws of Noah). Rav Arush Slita said the same thing basicaly, maybe I will find it now and post it BH.

these arguments of judaism's truth involve parts of the contents of torah and gemara.

Rav Mizrachi's shiurim are directed at a jewish audience. 

And once you advertise some, then they will go to his site and watch others.

Shiurim to teach judaism's truth, are Kiruv, they are directed at jewish audiences.
It may be worth asking him if his lectures are for gentiles.

its better to put it up on Flix and Yideioz

  You got the link to these sites? Also doesn't flix also have xxx on it? (because computers block it)

[q_q_]

torah is a bit problematic here given the gentile membership.. But, at least it's a jewish organisation, with a basis in religious judaism.


In history, when judaism was preached to gentiles, it was twisted by those that want to twist it.

That is one reason why we don't teach judaism to gentiles.  Whether you believe it or not, They will read it with their faulty philosophies, and twist it to suit them.

Christianity became popular because jews had been winning converts amongst gentiles, and judaism was popular.. The gentiles wanted an easy way out, so Paul's christianity appealed to them.

Jews taught mohammed bits of  tenach and tradition, and he twisted it and used it in his quran.

Messianics are the worst.. They are Expert in picking up arcane bits of information, anything they can find, to make it appear like they know what they're talking about.
I have heard them quote the RAMBAM to try to say jesus was the messiah.
Or the zohar. Stupid arguments but arguments that might bamboozle(confuse) many non religious jews.

Back in the middle ages, pablo christiani tried to say that the talmud proves jesus is the messiah. And the J4J organisation pull the same stunts.  They can do this because idiots like Shmuley Boteach get into 20 part discussions with them.. Or because some misguided jews have trained them..

The last time a missionary tried it on with me, it was a long train journey, and on realising he was a missionary, (he was smart, he didn't mention jesus, or christianity or dying for sins or anything). But on realising what he was, I gave him brief one word or 3 word answers. So as not to train him. He was quite friendly during the journey. But when he got off the train he didn't even respond when I said goodbye! Because he lost big time. He didn't even get anything out of the discussion himself.

Missionaries go to ulpan to learn hebrew so they can convert jews..

Mohammed, and all muslims are like mohammed.  Mohammed wanted to learn torah from the jews. And they like to debate too..  Even if you destroy them completely in debate, in front of lots of people..  it means that you are  training them, and that's bad.  And they will know more when it comes to dealing with a jew that knows less.

And if you provide them information on the internet, then they can sit in their home and study it without looking like an idiot losing debates in public, while getting trained.  So it's even better for them.

Muslims and christians are full of missionaries, and debating with them, trains them - whether they win or lose the debate. They gain from it.    
Same with teaching Torah obviously.. which is essentially what happens in these debates.
Or more stupidly, what would happen if proving the torah's validity.

You may even get gentiles proving the torah's validity to ignorant jews, and then throwing jesus in.

[Ulli]

To quote Maimonides and  Shimon bar Yochai in order to proof Christianity is fraud. Maimonides thought that Christianity is idolatry.

There is no relation between this two scholars and Christianity. This is insane 

I  personally don't like this missionaries who go to the Jews and try to proselytize them. This whole issue is  annoying, because we Christians have much to do with our own communities in this time and in addition to that it is useless to do such a thing because the teaching of Calvin is clear, that the fate of each person is bound to him before the world was created and that the covenant is unbroken.

One other argument is that god said often about certain Jews under the law that they are righteous althrough they sinned sometimes like all people after the sin of Adam.

And the temple with sacrifices to disencumber was not always there, i.e in the time of the Babylonian exile.


The quran is a totally nuts book. The stories are so twisted, that I doubt, that he was teached directly from the Jewish tratition. Perhaps he picked something up here and there from conversations with Christians and Jews.

Alexander the Great and Moses are travelling together the world?

Pharao and Haman worked together to build the tower of Babel?

IMO was Mohammeds goal to proof with madeup stories, that the Arabs of Mekka the so called tribe Quraisch were the legitime inherits of the covenant.

Ismael was in the Quran the sacrifice and not Isaak. Later is a passage that Ismaels children settled in a valley near the Kaaba the so called first house and first place of worship of our god.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

q_q if I were a Jew, I would debate the Missionaries with the New Testament:

Tovia Singer did it here (He has a lot of knowledge about Calvinist theology )

http://www.torahanytime.com/rabbi_singer_law_of_moses_and_the_new_covenant_mp3.html

Some of his rethorical questions to the missionaries are exactly those I thought about since a long time. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

q_q if I were a Jew, I would debate the Missionaries with the New Testament:

Tovia Singer did it here (He has a lot of knowledge about Calvinist theology )

http://www.torahanytime.com/rabbi_singer_law_of_moses_and_the_new_covenant_mp3.html

  You have to see the irony in a xtain showing a Jew how to defeat his own religion.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

torah is a bit problematic here given the gentile membership.. But, at least it's a jewish organisation, with a basis in religious judaism.


In history, when judaism was preached to gentiles, it was twisted by those that want to twist it.

That is one reason why we don't teach judaism to gentiles.  Whether you believe it or not, They will read it with their faulty philosophies, and twist it to suit them.

Christianity became popular because jews had been winning converts amongst gentiles, and judaism was popular.. The gentiles wanted an easy way out, so Paul's christianity appealed to them.

Jews taught mohammed bits of  tenach and tradition, and he twisted it and used it in his quran.

Messianics are the worst.. They are Expert in picking up arcane bits of information, anything they can find, to make it appear like they know what they're talking about.
I have heard them quote the RAMBAM to try to say jesus was the messiah.
Or the zohar. Stupid arguments but arguments that might bamboozle(confuse) many non religious jews.

Back in the middle ages, pablo christiani tried to say that the talmud proves jesus is the messiah. And the J4J organisation pull the same stunts.  They can do this because idiots like Shmuley Boteach get into 20 part discussions with them.. Or because some misguided jews have trained them..

The last time a missionary tried it on with me, it was a long train journey, and on realising he was a missionary, (he was smart, he didn't mention jesus, or christianity or dying for sins or anything). But on realising what he was, I gave him brief one word or 3 word answers. So as not to train him. He was quite friendly during the journey. But when he got off the train he didn't even respond when I said goodbye! Because he lost big time. He didn't even get anything out of the discussion himself.

Missionaries go to ulpan to learn hebrew so they can convert jews..

Mohammed, and all muslims are like mohammed.  Mohammed wanted to learn torah from the jews. And they like to debate too..  Even if you destroy them completely in debate, in front of lots of people..  it means that you are  training them, and that's bad.  And they will know more when it comes to dealing with a jew that knows less.

And if you provide them information on the internet, then they can sit in their home and study it without looking like an idiot losing debates in public, while getting trained.  So it's even better for them.

Muslims and christians are full of missionaries, and debating with them, trains them - whether they win or lose the debate. They gain from it.    
Same with teaching Torah obviously.. which is essentially what happens in these debates.
Or more stupidly, what would happen if proving the torah's validity.

You may even get gentiles proving the torah's validity to ignorant jews, and then throwing jesus in.

 Everything you are saying is true, but you have to realise that if someone wants to twist the Torah they can and do soo anyway. All of these missionaries already learn the Torah (not the correct way, from the greek translation of course), and for many who already are shown proof in front of their face, they still deny it, because of an ego thing. For example that missionary who debated with Rabbi Mizrachi- he couldn't answer one question, and he still probably is doing what he is doing. Why?- many reasons- 1- thats how they make $, 2- an ego thing- what they have been living a lie all this time 3- many many other reasons.
 BUTT you also have to realise that their are many genuine people out their. Their have been priests in the past what after the debate with one of our great Rabbis have said  (one guy said this) "my mother is going to kill me when she finds out that I converted to became a Jew". Also the couple of guys who came to Beit Gavriel not too long ago, after seeing the debate, and also some of the Divine Information video's they dropped what they used to do, stopped preaching to others and getting others including Jews to follow other religions. Also I think that the world should be shown an alternative, throught honest dialogue and told that their is something that they can follow (the 7 laws Bnai Noah) or at least not touch our Jewish brothers and sisters into believing in anything besides the 1 True G-d, the G-d of Israel and His Torah.
  I also dont know, I just got fired up after reading that article by Rav Bar Haim's student, and also other things from the past. 
Although I would like to say that the # 1 thing that Jews should do is to help out our fellow brothers and sisters in knowing the Truth, and keeping G-d's Mitzvot, Yehi Ratzon.

[Ulli]

q_q if I were a Jew, I would debate the Missionaries with the New Testament:

Tovia Singer did it here (He has a lot of knowledge about Calvinist theology )

http://www.torahanytime.com/rabbi_singer_law_of_moses_and_the_new_covenant_mp3.html

  You have to see the irony in a xtain showing a Jew how to defeat his own religion.

 

Yes it is ironic,

but Rabbi Singer really understands Calvinism. In his speech is not one twisted argument. Of cause he has another point of view than me, but if I think his argumentation out, I have to agree, that prolyterization is nonesense. 

[q_q_]

Everything you are saying is true, but you have to realise that if someone wants to twist the Torah they can and do soo anyway. All of these missionaries already learn the Torah (not the correct way, from the greek translation of course),

They don't read the rambam or zohar. But if somebody teaches them it they twist it.  And there are arguments too that they might not pick up just reading a bible. Yes they will twist anyway, but would be giving them information to twist.

[Haim_Ben_Shimon_3JFB]

youtube is a largely gentile audience. Are you sure that rabbi mizrachi's kiruv(jewish outreach) videos are appropriate?
or will you just do the non kiruv ones - if there are any.

 I think that the Kiruv one's shoud be put up, and also a link to Torahanytime.com. Also It does not only have to be for Jews, although I think that possibly many Jews expecialy from Israel could go on and see the clips from the professionaly made "DivineInformation" video at www.Divineinformation.com that is in Hebrew with English subtitles.
 Many Jews could possibly see it, but also many gentiles- and why not? Why shouldn't the world know in one G-d, and the Divine information in the Torah. I have browsed many times on youtube, and their is sooo much misinformation about G-d, and also many athiests denying G-d and ridiculing Him. Also their are many missionaires, who should be exposed for their lies, and manybe many of those from amoung the Islamists who would reconcider in following their religion and supporting in blowing up Jews (It Might make a different, or not, but at least tell people about an alternative by presenting the right easily seen and understandable information).

the thing is should we put it up under "3 Jews From Brooklyn" or under a new name like TorahAnyTime

 Not sure, but if you will make another account maybe it should be something like "Divine information" - And the first video's to put would be the Divineinformation video's.

  Maybe ill figure it out, and do the video's but I just dont know how to cut parts from the video, and then put it up on youtube.

The thing is youtube wants some limits and its 10 min so idk it will be pain in tuchas to divide 3 hour lecture by 10 min it will be like 12 parts

[Haim_Ben_Shimon_3JFB]

Judaism says we don't teach gentiles Torah

Simple as that. Whether you personally want to teach them, or not.

i would say the same

[Haim_Ben_Shimon_3JFB]

Judaism says we don't teach gentiles Torah

Simple as that. Whether you personally want to teach them, or not.

right but we can teach them the 7 Noahide laws

 And also the basic tenents of Emuna- believing in one G-d, and that He gave the Torah to the Jews, that the nations have to follow G-d (after KNOWing, and then by following the 7 laws of Noah). Rav Arush Slita said the same thing basicaly, maybe I will find it now and post it BH.

Let me no which ones are allowed and i will put it in on youtube if you want

[Haim_Ben_Shimon_3JFB]

torah is a bit problematic here given the gentile membership.. But, at least it's a jewish organisation, with a basis in religious judaism.


In history, when judaism was preached to gentiles, it was twisted by those that want to twist it.

That is one reason why we don't teach judaism to gentiles.  Whether you believe it or not, They will read it with their faulty philosophies, and twist it to suit them.

Christianity became popular because jews had been winning converts amongst gentiles, and judaism was popular.. The gentiles wanted an easy way out, so Paul's christianity appealed to them.

Jews taught mohammed bits of  tenach and tradition, and he twisted it and used it in his quran.

Messianics are the worst.. They are Expert in picking up arcane bits of information, anything they can find, to make it appear like they know what they're talking about.
I have heard them quote the RAMBAM to try to say jesus was the messiah.
Or the zohar. Stupid arguments but arguments that might bamboozle(confuse) many non religious jews.

Back in the middle ages, pablo christiani tried to say that the talmud proves jesus is the messiah. And the J4J organisation pull the same stunts.  They can do this because idiots like Shmuley Boteach get into 20 part discussions with them.. Or because some misguided jews have trained them..

The last time a missionary tried it on with me, it was a long train journey, and on realising he was a missionary, (he was smart, he didn't mention jesus, or christianity or dying for sins or anything). But on realising what he was, I gave him brief one word or 3 word answers. So as not to train him. He was quite friendly during the journey. But when he got off the train he didn't even respond when I said goodbye! Because he lost big time. He didn't even get anything out of the discussion himself.

Missionaries go to ulpan to learn hebrew so they can convert jews..

Mohammed, and all muslims are like mohammed.  Mohammed wanted to learn torah from the jews. And they like to debate too..  Even if you destroy them completely in debate, in front of lots of people..  it means that you are  training them, and that's bad.  And they will know more when it comes to dealing with a jew that knows less.

And if you provide them information on the internet, then they can sit in their home and study it without looking like an idiot losing debates in public, while getting trained.  So it's even better for them.

Muslims and christians are full of missionaries, and debating with them, trains them - whether they win or lose the debate. They gain from it.     
Same with teaching Torah obviously.. which is essentially what happens in these debates.
Or more stupidly, what would happen if proving the torah's validity.

You may even get gentiles proving the torah's validity to ignorant jews, and then throwing jesus in.

 Everything you are saying is true, but you have to realise that if someone wants to twist the Torah they can and do soo anyway. All of these missionaries already learn the Torah (not the correct way, from the greek translation of course), and for many who already are shown proof in front of their face, they still deny it, because of an ego thing. For example that missionary who debated with Rabbi Mizrachi- he couldn't answer one question, and he still probably is doing what he is doing. Why?- many reasons- 1- thats how they make $, 2- an ego thing- what they have been living a lie all this time 3- many many other reasons.
 BUTT you also have to realise that their are many genuine people out their. Their have been priests in the past what after the debate with one of our great Rabbis have said  (one guy said this) "my mother is going to kill me when she finds out that I converted to became a Jew". Also the couple of guys who came to Beit Gavriel not too long ago, after seeing the debate, and also some of the Divine Information video's they dropped what they used to do, stopped preaching to others and getting others including Jews to follow other religions. Also I think that the world should be shown an alternative, throught honest dialogue and told that their is something that they can follow (the 7 laws Bnai Noah) or at least not touch our Jewish brothers and sisters into believing in anything besides the 1 True G-d, the G-d of Israel and His Torah.
  I also dont know, I just got fired up after reading that article by Rav Bar Haim's student, and also other things from the past. 
Although I would like to say that the # 1 thing that Jews should do is to help out our fellow brothers and sisters in knowing the Truth, and keeping G-d's Mitzvot, Yehi Ratzon.

do you think it will be appropriate to show this video to gentiles of jtf or they already seen it?

[Haim_Ben_Shimon_3JFB]

NOW ON FLIX
http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=2646602
http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=2646581

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Whats appropriate- basically the Divine Information video's- the proof video's. Also I wasn't thinking about putting whole video's. But just for example each proof ca be one video, expecially the video's with the nice animation (for example the "Divie Information" Hebrew video with English subtitles), just to get some people, expecially Jews interested, so they can can explore more from the Great Gadol at Torahanytime.com (Rav Mizrachi of-course).
 

[q_q_]

Whats appropriate- basically the Divine Information video's- the proof video's. Also I wasn't thinking about putting whole video's. But just for example each proof ca be one video, expecially the video's with the nice animation (for example the "Divie Information" Hebrew video with English subtitles), just to get some people, expecially Jews interested, so they can can explore more from the Great Gadol at Torahanytime.com (Rav Mizrachi of-course).
 

It's all appropriate and great *for flix*

but proof of the torah is not appropriate for youtube.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Whats appropriate- basically the Divine Information video's- the proof video's. Also I wasn't thinking about putting whole video's. But just for example each proof ca be one video, expecially the video's with the nice animation (for example the "Divie Information" Hebrew video with English subtitles), just to get some people, expecially Jews interested, so they can can explore more from the Great Gadol at Torahanytime.com (Rav Mizrachi of-course).
 

It's all appropriate and great *for flix*

but proof of the torah is not appropriate for youtube.

 Their are many Jews their also. And I did see many "Jews for Jesus" stuff - but thats because I searched for it  , If their would be some short video's, I think it would be appropriate to guickly reference people. Also even with gentiles, their are people who ask questions for Jews, and Judasim, so why not answer them.
  BUT I think that it would definitly be great to just plugg the video's on different Jewish (or dealing anything with Jewish) channels, in addition to the athiests who mock religion and try to say that its backward, with the Torah one can easily disprove them.

[q_q_]

Whats appropriate- basically the Divine Information video's- the proof video's. Also I wasn't thinking about putting whole video's. But just for example each proof ca be one video, expecially the video's with the nice animation (for example the "Divie Information" Hebrew video with English subtitles), just to get some people, expecially Jews interested, so they can can explore more from the Great Gadol at Torahanytime.com (Rav Mizrachi of-course).
 

It's all appropriate and great *for flix*

but proof of the torah is not appropriate for youtube.

 Their are many Jews their also. And I did see many "Jews for Jesus" stuff - but thats because I searched for it  , If their would be some short video's, I think it would be appropriate to guickly reference people. Also even with gentiles, their are people who ask questions for Jews, and Judasim, so why not answer them.
  BUT I think that it would definitly be great to just plugg the video's on different Jewish (or dealing anything with Jewish) channels, in addition to the athiests who mock religion and try to say that its backward, with the Torah one can easily disprove them.

There are many jews in the streets too. But we don't stick banners up in the streets saying Proof that judaism is the truth.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Whats appropriate- basically the Divine Information video's- the proof video's. Also I wasn't thinking about putting whole video's. But just for example each proof ca be one video, expecially the video's with the nice animation (for example the "Divie Information" Hebrew video with English subtitles), just to get some people, expecially Jews interested, so they can can explore more from the Great Gadol at Torahanytime.com (Rav Mizrachi of-course).
 

It's all appropriate and great *for flix*

but proof of the torah is not appropriate for youtube.

 Their are many Jews their also. And I did see many "Jews for Jesus" stuff - but thats because I searched for it  , If their would be some short video's, I think it would be appropriate to guickly reference people. Also even with gentiles, their are people who ask questions for Jews, and Judasim, so why not answer them.
  BUT I think that it would definitly be great to just plugg the video's on different Jewish (or dealing anything with Jewish) channels, in addition to the athiests who mock religion and try to say that its backward, with the Torah one can easily disprove them.

There are many jews in the streets too. But we don't stick banners up in the streets saying Proof that judaism is the truth.

 Maybe we should. And their are posters and fliers taped onto polls in different places (of upcoming lectures), for example in Kew Gardens and Forest Hills (among other places im sure).
  But whatever, I do not completly disagree with you, just throwing ideas. 

[Haim_Ben_Shimon_3JFB]

What about the debate with a Christian guy for people on jtf???