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20-something guy in the Land of Israel seeks vegetarian right wing "extremist"..

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Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:

--- Quote from: adam613 on January 21, 2007, 12:41:02 AM ---Why don't you want to have your own kids. From what I understand you don't fullfill the obligation of be fruitful and multiply from adaption.
--- End quote ---
I'm a Gentile. I merely posted here to show solidarity with Orange. I am a vegetarian by no means, but I just wanted to let him know I understand what it's like to have a strong requirement in a mate no one else can understand.


--- Quote ---Honor thy father and mother applies to the biological parents.

--- End quote ---
I would have thought it applied to both.

adam613:


--- Quote ---Honor thy father and mother applies to the biological parents.

--- End quote ---
I would have thought it applied to both.
[/quote]

Well there is a Gemara (don't have the sources) in which a child says he doesn't have to respect his parents because they aren't his real parents. And the gemara then explains he is technically correct but he still should have a sense of gratitude for the adoptive parents to raise him. And he was punished for that reason. An adoptive child should appreciate his adoptive parents for raising him but it isn't the same as your biological parents. And that is another issue of adoption that a child does have the right to know who his real parents are if the biological parents give that info. Sometimes there are children you can help by adopting them  but I still think a person should want children of his own.

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:

--- Quote from: adam613 on January 21, 2007, 12:21:53 PM ---Well there is a Gemara (don't have the sources) in which a child says he doesn't have to respect his parents because they aren't his real parents. And the gemara then explains he is technically correct but he still should have a sense of gratitude for the adoptive parents to raise him. And he was punished for that reason.
--- End quote ---
I am afraid I have not heard of the above passage... is it Talmudic? It doesn't ring any bell with me.  ???


--- Quote ---but I still think a person should want children of his own.

--- End quote ---
It is an extremely strong personal preference of mine, much like Orange's is to be a vegetarian. I eat meat and have no intention of ceasing, but as a very particular idealist in many other ways, I can sympathize with such a strong esoteric personal requirement.

Lisa:
Just to make sure I understand this, if a married man or woman cannot have children, and they adopt, it still doesn't count in terms of being fruitful and multiplying?  If so, why? 

adam613:
Because it isn't your child. Anymore then being a step parent doesn't make you the father or mother. It is a tremendous good deed to adopt a child that's parent can't or don't want to raise them but it doesn't make you the real father or mother. An adopted child who isn't Jewish has to be converted. I know for the command to honor thy father and mother it applies to biological parents although again I am a sense of goodwill and loving your fellow man an adoptive child should treat their adoptive parents with respect. Actually now that I am thinking about it I am not sure if adoptive children would be consider fullfilling the command but all the other indicators say it isn't your child so I don't know why it would be different here unless someone could tell me otherwise. The fathers name is the biological fathers when you say their name. And if you don't know it you likely say the son of Abraham. That is what a convert does.

If someone doesn't fullfill being fruitful and multiplying due to circumstances beyond their control g-d isn't going to punish them severely for this if they tried or if they made a mistake when they are young and really can't do anything about it now but try to make sure other people do get married and have children. And certainly adopting if you can is a good deed that g-d will reward you for on it's own merits and certainly if you can't have children of your own.

I'll share one more item with you, Lisa, which I don't know if you know although I understand not all the Rabbi's agree with it and I actually find it odd too although it really is academic because of the fact that it requires both a man and a woman anyway. That is they consider the obligation to be the man's only. Although there were Rabbi's who disagreed. I say it is academic because if woman don't want to have children what is a man to do. And if g-d asks man why he didn't have children he will say he tried but his wife didn't want or woman he dated didn't want so he never got married. The woman will them have to defend herself, and she may say well the Rabbi told me I could put off having children. And the Rabbi will have to answer if they are telling them they don't have to have children or can wait to have children when she is of a good age to get married.  Anyway, since it is much more in control of a woman to have children and women have to sacrifice more to have children even according to the majority Rabbi's that say it is the man's Mitzvah the women deserves credit for helping the man fulfill it. And if the man didn't children but the woman did she certainly deserves more credit then the man does and likely g-d will reward her more then the man despite these Rabbi's rules.  But I have always find it odd that the majority of the Rabbi's in the Talmud felt it was the man's mitzvah because he can't do it unless a woman also wants children.

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