My Response to Chaim's Response to Me on This Week's Ask JTF

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Dearest Chaim and our other great members:

I want to thank you, Chaim, for your wonderfully gentlemanly and patient reply to my question, points, and recent controversial threads. You also did a great job of explaining basic orthodox Christian philosophy, and probably get it better than 95% of world Christians. (On a couple points I would like to clarify a couple of things at some other time, but your basic understanding is excellent.)

Here is my reply. I absolutely did not consciously mean to hammer Israelis from a Christian POV. That certainly was not my intention at all. (I most certainly did not mean to say that Israelis are self-hating because they don't believe Jesus/Yeshua is the Messiah--not that you thought that I did, but I'll say it anyway just so that there is no doubt about it.) That being said, you are correct that this is my basic worldview, and that it probably did, unconsciously, shape much of what I wrote.

Some of what we both discussed gets to our basic theological underpinnings, and we will thus have to agree to differ, but regarding my main content and points, I will stop posting about these polls upon which I based my information since you believe they are fraudulent and will not make any more threads of this nature. Besides, I made my points already. The reason that I went off this week in such a fit of rage was that I could not believe that 66% (according to polls) of Israelis were favoring pardoning a child rapist/torturer/butcher. That made me very angry, and yes, I was personally infuriated with each and every Jew that felt that way, and in truth I still am (even if it's only 40% of Jews and not 66%). I still do believe that every Israeli who really supported this deal, for whatever reason (and I will admit that those that do feel this way support it because they bought into the emotional manipulation of the soldiers' families and not because they really felt like forgiving Kuntar), has the blood of that little girl on their head, but I won't speak of this any longer.

I do want to apologize to the Jews who I genuinely offended by these posts, which I know were, at some point or another, many. You know who you are. I went at great lengths to explain myself in a rational way when we were debating my posts and did not get upset with you. On the other hand, a couple of other people, who will not be named, cynically used my threads as a vehicle by which to promote their particular minority viewpoint, and thus I do not apologize to them, because their behavior had nothing to do with me.

One final note: Chaim, I know that we will dissent on some fundamentals because of our religious background, but surely you will agree with my comments regarding world Christendom (as a whole). Whereas most left-leaning Jews are that way because of complacency and brainwashing, anti-Semitic "Christians", however ignorant they may be (and usually they are very), have absolutely decided to choose evil. There is zero excuse whatsoever for 97% of Maronites considering Samir Kuntar a hero and martyr. That is pure evil, straight from hell, and not at all the product of mistakennness or passive sin.

G-d bless you, as always, my dear friend.

Chaimfan.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

PS: Chaim, you can unsticky this after you have read it.

[Rubystars]

I believe if you wrong someone that you should do your best to make that up to the person or if you can't, to their family. Just because Christians believe that sins can be forgiven by God doesn't get us off the hook of doing the right thing or undoing the wrongs we've committed as much as possible.

[Manch]

Dear C.F.

I agree with most of your assessments. Sometimes I really hate and embarrassed of being Jewish - after Yeshiva shooting, after front loader attack, after criminal murder and exchange of two heroic soldiers for rodef swines. But you know what, I always love my people and I think your frustration comes from a genuine love for Jews and incredulity of their lack of reaction.  The problem is that you tend find every piece of that confirms your already formed opinion of Jews as self-hating and evil. Quite often you go well overboard, for example when calling IDF nazi army. Common - who are you going to convince with such a hyperbola?

I've been to Israel and spoke candidly with about 10 -15 Israelis. I spoke of HaRav Kahane and openly stated that I support his message. Only one person vehemently disagreed with me, without any intellectual arguments, btw. Everyone else agreed with my points. Some thought of what I was saying as a non-realistic dream or something very desirable, but something that they would definitely support. And, btw, I wasn't in Judea and Samaria - I spoke with people in Haifa, Hertzliya, Dead Sea, Tel Aviv. As I mentioned before, I don't believe, for one second, all those leftist cooked-up polls - I think and I know that most Jews in Israel are sane and are right-wing.

In my estimate, there are two biggest problems that render Jews in Israel as not normal -

1) The complete apathy,unbelievable frustration with a current system and disgust for the government . I'd love to state that - common, any people with a half of sense of self pride would burn the Knesset down after just one of many, many dramatic incidents that we observed recently. But, hey, look, Americans after 911 are going to get a muslim drug queen, a quintessential anti-American fraud as their president. Not bad, huh?

2) Most Israeli Jews are completely brainwashed to think that rabbi Kahane ideas are just a wishful thinking, without any chances of ever being implemented. That is until they are exposed to Kahanist logic, to the ideas that rabbi Kahane had put forth, to the fact that Kahanism is not a simplistic "get the arabs out" ideology, but a comprehensive, theoretically grounded program for securing Israel.

So, what it leaves us with? The combination of these two factors creates an immense opportunity for JTF and other Kahanist organizations. But we can't spread the truth if we already assumed that the potential truth recipients are evil, beyond all hopes self-hating, etc. Moreover, our message, if not given from the genuine position of Love for Israel, love for Jews will never be accepted by Israeli Jews. We set the tone of the conversation. If you tell me that I am evil, why would I listen to you, no matter what your message is?

So, brother, I am with you - I can't stand and am embarrassed by Jewish apathy. But I know and you should know that too - Israeli Jews are good people, they love Israel, most, even secular Jews, have respect for Jewish tradition. Jews in Israel just need to be waken up, not shouted down!
Shalom!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Chaim, did you see this thread?

[DownwithIslam]

All I can say is that if Jews were like CF, their would not be one jewish death. CF is a real righteous gentile and I always agree with him.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Thanks, but I am really not righteous. People like the Lubavitch, who went into battle alongside the IDF, risking being blown to bits by Hezbollah at every minute, are truly righteous. I am not fit to shine their shoes.

[DownwithIslam]

Thanks, but I am really not righteous. People like the Lubavitch, who went into battle alongside the IDF, risking being blown to bits by Hezbollah at every minute, are truly righteous. I am not fit to shine their shoes.

Chaimfan, you are righteous and Lubavitch is indeed righteous as well.

[Scriabin]

Thanks, but I am really not righteous. People like the Lubavitch, who went into battle alongside the IDF, risking being blown to bits by Hezbollah at every minute, are truly righteous. I am not fit to shine their shoes.

Chaim has read your post.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Chaimfan, you are righteous and Lubavitch is indeed righteous as well.

I'm not fit to walk on the soil that those tzaddiks have. I haven't risked my life to comfort Jews during a holocaust. Two years ago, those heroes did.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Chaim has read your post.

Your proof being... (?)

[Scriabin]

Chaim has read your post.

Your proof being... (?)

I'm a Wizard.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I'm a Wizard.

Prove It. I want to see an attached photo of your Hogwarts diploma.

[eb22]

      C.F.,    I'm very glad that you raised this in your " Ask JTF"  question.     The info that Chaim provided in his answer was invaluable for me.     Though there was other info from the questions and answers of this program that I learned from   (  Chaim's answer regarding Bob Barr comes to mind immediately ),   your question and Chaim's answer was the highlight of "  Ask JTF "   not only in this particular show.    But in all of the recent shows.     Thanks as always for your contributions to JTF.        

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Thanks!

[DownwithIslam]

I agree, Chaimfan is one of the most loyal jtf'ers out there. Their is nobody that has fought against the splinter Chaim haters than Chaimfan.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

But I didn't give six years of my life in prison for trying to stop a holocaust.