Kahanist Singles > Righteous Gentile Singles
What is the most important attribute of a good wife?
~Hanna~:
--- Quote from: Paulette on September 18, 2008, 08:03:06 AM ---LOYALTY. No man wants a woman that is NOT loyal.
--- End quote ---
True, visa versa, also.... ;D
muman613:
Eishet Chayil
We sing this song on Friday night after the Shabbat meal. It describes the perfect Jewish woman:
A Woman of Valor, who can find? She is more precious than corals.
Her husband places his trust in her and profits only thereby.
She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life.
She seeks out wool and flax and cheerfully does the work of her hands.
She is like the trading ships, bringing food from afar.
She gets up while it is still night to provide food for her household, and a fair share for her staff.
She considers a field and purchases it, and plants a vineyard with the fruit of her labors.
She invests herself with strength and makes her arms powerful.
She senses that her trade is profitable; her light does not go out at night.
She stretches out her hands to the distaff and her palms hold the spindle.
She opens her hands to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy.
She has no fear of the snow for her household, for all her household is dressed in fine clothing.
She makes her own bedspreads; her clothing is of fine linen and luxurious cloth.
Her husband is known at the gates, where he sits with the elders of the land.
She makes and sells linens; she supplies the merchants with sashes.
She is robed in strength and dignity, and she smiles at the future.
She opens her mouth with wisdom and a lesson of kindness is on her tongue.
She looks after the conduct of her household and never tastes the bread of laziness.
Her children rise up and make her happy; her husband praises her:
"Many women have excelled, but you excell them all!"
Grace is elusive and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears G-d -- she shall be praised.
Give her credit for the fruit of her labors, and let her achievements praise her at the gates.
I hope that all men find a woman who fits this description, and all women endeavor to become an Eishet Chayil {Woman of Valor}.
muman613
http://www.aish.com/shabbathowto/fridaynight/Eishet_Chayil.asp
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Shlomo on August 08, 2008, 12:14:41 PM ---
--- Quote from: Paulette on August 08, 2008, 07:46:04 AM ---ma<snip>, pregnant, obedient, always pretty, laughing, and cheerleading. Perfect Wife. What EVERY man is looking for.
--- End quote ---
I don't want a woman who is obedient <snip>. While I would love to have a big family, I need a little challenge in a relationship to remain happy and would hope she worked at least before children were born. I really would become bored if it was too easy.
--- End quote ---
i'm not sure if a woman that works is easier or more difficult than a woman that doesn't.
many would say it's easier for both of you if you both work.
--- Quote from: Shlomo on August 08, 2008, 12:14:41 PM ---Most women know this about men and it works the same for women. As humans, whether we like to admit it or not, we need challenge in order to be happy. I also would want her to have her own hobbies, mind, and independent self-image.
--- End quote ---
woman is described as a helper,
and later in Gen 3:16, in punishing the woman, the text shows G-d saying.
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall ****rule*** over thee."
--- Quote from: Shlomo on August 08, 2008, 12:14:41 PM ---It's NOT healthy for man to dominate women. If we look at the Torah's story of creation, G-d determines that man needs a helpmate, but it is a while before Eve is created. Instead, all the birds and animals are created and Adam is asked to name them. At the conclusion of this part, the Torah tells us, "... but for Adam no fitting helpmate was found." What's the lesson we learn from this? Why did G-d say this after Adam named the animals? Why wasn't Adam happy with an animal for a helpmate?
--- End quote ---
well, after Eve was created, Adam says she is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.. The text continues
"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. "
The Torah uses euphemisms. No *suitable* helper was found.
Obviously an animal may be a helper but isn't going to provide the intellectual stimulation,(and that serpant if he still talks is not very helpful!), the animal isn't going to he an intelligent helper, only a human can match that.
Well, that could be Steve. Obviously Steve wouldn't be suitable, it wouldn't satisfy man's longing for a Woman.
As far as being a Helper is concerned, it requires obedience, and animals are very obedient.
So obedience isn't a problem, for a helper, if anything the lack of it is a problem.
The Torah does say man should rule over his wife.. dominate her.
i.e. boss her about.
I look at it as men have the ability to do it..
Women were so dependent on men.
In our times though, when one doesn't have to kill animals or chop down trees, and in these very recent times startling times, when some of the more physical women are getting strong enough to do these things themselves! And all could from going to the gym like many do just to lose weight. And we don't even need the physical strength to do that anymore. Women aren't stuck in the submissive position anymore, but they can't necessarily choose it either.
One thing I could say..
I did hear once that a proper translation is that G-d created a help to oppose him. So that implies some equality.
I haven't seen that anywhere though.
At the end of the day, it's sad that G-d punished women with being bossed about. We don't have to be gratituitous about it. And we may even follow their instructions sometimes - so they feel a bit better. If one really likes the girl, then one wouldn't want to boss her about telling her to do things that she doesn't want to do. The Torah doesn't give that counsel though.
--- Quote from: Shlomo on August 08, 2008, 12:14:41 PM ---Because an animal is subordinate to man. It's not his equal. Adam had been commanded earlier to "Have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." So Adam could not overcome his loneliness and find true love with a subordinate being, over whom he ruled.
--- End quote ---
it says to rule over her too, just later on.
--- Quote from: Shlomo on August 08, 2008, 12:14:41 PM ---The false religion islam and ego teaches men must dominate women. This type of will to control comes from insecurity and low self-esteem. It's an effort to control the outside because a person has no self control - which is what the soul really wants.
--- End quote ---
the soul really wants to dominate women?
I don't think so at all.
there is an idea in judaism that the soul is G-dly and perfect.. And you said that dominance is not the right way anyway.
I think some men just -don't care- and will boss women about making their lives misery. I think if you CHOOSE a wife and make her life a misery, then either you're a bad guy or you chose the wrong one - one that annoys you, or you're not capable of being a good husband. I think a man like that should not have children.. though the torah says "be fruitful and multiply"..
I think a decent man would naturally NOT want to dominate women.
As you suggest yourself, you don't want to dominate women.
Man should have the ability to.. That in an argument he should be able to flip her upside down and take her out of the house. But he shoudn't abuse this advantage!
(of course some madonna like women might be able to do this to their husbands.. but what can you do)
<snip>
Shlomo:
It never says boss her around all the time.
It's a curse. It doesn't mean it's the ideal or what we are striving for. Just because they have greater pain in child bearing doesn't mean we should just chunk the pain medication... or turn up the heat at work to make sure we earn bread by the sweat of our brow. We strive to nullify curses.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Shlomo on October 10, 2008, 06:39:28 AM ---It never says boss her around all the time.
It's a curse. It doesn't mean it's the ideal or what we are striving for. Just because they have greater pain in child bearing doesn't mean we should just chunk the pain medication... or turn up the heat at work to make sure we earn bread by the sweat of our brow. We strive to nullify curses.
--- End quote ---
If you see what I wrote, I never described it as an ideal!!!!
I said
"At the end of the day, it's sad that G-d punished women with being bossed about. We don't have to be gratituitous about it. And we may even follow their instructions sometimes - so they feel a bit better. If one really likes the girl, then one wouldn't want to boss her about telling her to do things that she doesn't want to do. The Torah doesn't give that counsel though."
Note- ruling over her does mean bossing her about.. It says rule over her.
But to elaborate on my point. about NOT bossing her about!
G-d says to Eve, he shall rule over you. That means he shall boss you about. (infact, a rabbi I know that is very friendly and not a male chavinist at all, used those words.. to explain "rule over you", and he's right).
The important thing is, G-d didn't tell Adam that!
It is indeed a punishment that Eve has to bear, or could bear. And I agree we should lessen it as much as we can.
If I like a woman I wouldn't choose to marry her and then make her life miserable "ruling over her"/bossing her about.
These aren't absolute punishments.. Remember, Adam is punished with working the land. Not many of us are farmers. And a punishment to the snake affects Eve, and Adam, but we aren't plagued by snakes/serpents these days,
G-d's curse to the serpent.
"“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” (Genesis 3:15)"
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