How important is going to Temple to you?

[Shamgar]

No No, the other Ark.... 

[Americanhero1]

No No, the other Ark.... 

you should have specified then

[RanterMaximus]

I should have phrased the subject heading better.   I indeed meant Jews.

[Shamgar]

No No, the other Ark.... 

you should have specified then

I did see the "Jesus Boat" at Nof Ginnosar". Pretty neat story. Not as big as the Ark, (Noah's), but still pretty cool.

http://www.jesusboat.com/boat.php

[~Hanna~]

I am still attempting to find a church I feel comfortable with...

Like someone else has said here, it seems MOST of them are all about MONEY (Mammon worship)....

If you don't have ALOT of it, well, you aren't a wanted member of the "club".

Its a Country Club mentality and truthfully, it makes me sick....

Im sick and tired of it.

Jesus Himself did not own a car or a house...and traveled from town to town...

Anyway......

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

For me it's just a matter of finally a church that I can become content with.  Too many churches today, at least from my experiences, have become nothing more than a type of club where the emphasis is on how much money they can raise, how many members they can get, with little being put into a strong message about G-d. 

It's the most important thing in the world.   As soon as we rebuild it (G-d let it be soon), I will hopefully go to the Temple all the time!

[Zevida]

For me it's just a matter of finally a church that I can become content with.  Too many churches today, at least from my experiences, have become nothing more than a type of club where the emphasis is on how much money they can raise, how many members they can get, with little being put into a strong message about G-d. 

It's the most important thing in the world.   As soon as we rebuild it (G-d let it be soon), I will hopefully go to the Temple all the time!

I'm so glad you said that.     I get tired of people asking me which Temple I go to.  I just want to say "There is no temple! All we have left is a wall!"  Too many reformers out there calling a synagogue a temple.  Shul or synagogue is the way to go. 

[takebackourtemple]

I changed the subject to Temple to include everyone.

How is that for everyone I don't go to temple couldn't you have Church/Shul

   There are many things that I could have called it. I guess there is no one word that will make everyone happy. Of course there is correct terminology. "Shul" is technically incorrect. The correct way to say a Jewish house of Worship in Hebrew is a "Bait Knesset". The problem is that most people won't know if you call it a "Bait Knesset" instead.

[q_q_]

I changed the subject to Temple to include everyone.

How is that for everyone I don't go to temple couldn't you have Church/Shul

   There are many things that I could have called it. I guess there is no one word that will make everyone happy. Of course there is correct terminology. "Shul" is technically incorrect. The correct way to say a Jewish house of Worship in Hebrew is a "Bait Knesset". The problem is that most people won't know if you call it a "Bait Knesset" instead.

Err no,

Given that Americanhero is not jewish, it is ridiculous for a non-jew to refer to a shul as a Beit Knesset. It may even give the impression that they are jewish.

There is an english word.  SYNAGOGUE

jews will usually say Shul.

[The One and Only Mo]

Since modern day synagogues are supposed to represent the Holy Jewish Temple (Beit Hamikdash) that was destroyed, I'd have to say that prayer and attending services is a pillar of (Orthodox) Judaism. There are hundreds and hundreds of scholars throughout Jewish history who wrote volumes about the laws and significance of praying with 10 men in a synagogue. I can only speak for Orthodox Jews, however.
     As far as Christianity goes, the only experiences I've had with churches were through watching some of my favorite shows like 7th Heaven, the Simpsons, and other things on TV and in movies. But I must admit, growing up as a nice Orthodox Jewish boy and attending Yeshiva Day Schools, I still haven't come close to mastering the art of going to shul    I'm working on it though.

[decimos]

So its clear,there will be no churches when the 3rd temple is built,for as it is written ""I will make the people pure of speech that they all call upon the name of G-d and serve Him with one purpose." (Zephaniah 3:9).And "Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have I not announced unto thee of old, and declared it? And ye are My witnesses. Is there a G-d beside Me? Yea, there is no Rock; I know not any.{Isa 44.8}also see {Isa 45,20} Assemble yourselves and come, draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations; they have no knowledge that carry the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a g-d that cannot save.   {I find this verse fantastic}

In conclusion not with standing the messianic prophecy YET to be fulfilled,we see that there is no other co-eternal creator with Hashem,his is one and alone,we also find that images such as goats, calves, crosses and images of men in stone or wood will  no longer be sought after as g-ds,but more importantly the prophets speak of the recommencing of temple sacrifice,which of coarse does fit with a specific "western religion"

[muman613]

Going to THE TEMPLE, or to Shul?

If we had the Holy Temple I would be there and I would be there with gusto. I love Hashem and would love to be in his presence and be able to sacrifice what I have to his cause. We dont have the Temple today and we can only dream and do mitzvahs in the hope that we merit seeing the rebuilding of the Holy Temple.

I go to shul when I can. I work very hard and cant be there in time for the morning minyan. I often go to the Shabbatons my Orthodox Rabbi has at the local University. It is very nice and we are going to the first one of the new school Rabbi who is a Chabad rabbi. I also go to another Chabad rabbi in the area and will probably be doing Yom Kippur this year with that Chabad minyan. Shabbat sometimes I do at home because I dont drive on Shabbat except in emergencies. I have recently been davening the morning Shachris service at home.

muman613
 

[Zelhar]

I find public prayers incredibly boring and I never go to the synagogue.

[q_q_]

I find public prayers incredibly boring and I never go to the synagogue.

maybe what you experienced is like in  britain, we have large shuls with a slow service.

find a younger congregation, like people < 40 or < 30. The number of people is smaller, and the davening is more energised.

their entire philosophy is different.

Large shuls, are often old, and from an older generation, the davening is often s-l-o-w, all drawn out, and you either have a proper chazzan, or somebody that thinks he is a proper chazzan, and a congregation that wants a proper chazzan and may be nostalgic for one. Lots of chazzanut. Not much participation from conregants. Lots of them sitting around listening to the chazzan's voice. The style is going out of vogue.  The generations now are more religious thanks to jewish outreach organisations, and they are more interested in focussed davening than the chazzanut.

A rabbi once made the observation, he referenced the beginning of the amida (elokainu velokai avotainu..), and said that there are 2 ways to follow G-d.
following the g-d of our fathers, and following your G-d.
the 50+ generation were following the G-d of their fathers, just wanting to be traditional..  (I think he was being polite, he didn't want to offend the people of 50+ that he was speaking to).
The <40 generation(s) are following   Their G-d. they have personalised judaism to suit themselves (within the boundaries of orthodoxy).. they have made it their own.  (it seems to me that the slow drawn out service is more of a "i'm doing this bit of suffering each week , paying the price, that's my bit, so i'm staying within the fold, so my father won't turn in his grave". It's not much of a religious experience).
There are some religious people in big shuls, that pray every day but still they don't mind a sing song if it's only once a week. 
 
How people pray on a regular morning in shul is completely different, much faster because they want to be ready for work. So even a big shul will get it over and done with.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I find public prayers incredibly boring and I never go to the synagogue.

  You should go to a Sefardi shul. Very livly. Go to the Selihot prayers this month, also even the regular prayers- its uplifting.

[takebackourtemple]

I find public prayers incredibly boring and I never go to the synagogue.

   
   Then the important thing is to find one's that are not boring. If you are like me, standing in a crowded room and listening to prayers that I have no clue what is being said makes things boring. When everyone sings the well known prayers in unison, then they are not boring at all. I sure do lose interest though when everyone mumbles at their own pace or when everyone sings out of sync. That is why I like Friday night services before than the Saturday morning ones. We sing Yidid Nefesh and LaChad Dodi and the services are not as long. It is only recently that I started going to both Friday night and Saturday morning services. If you find the Saturday services boring, I would recommend trying Friday night services as a start. Once you get the hang of the Friday night services, the Saturday morning ones will become more appealing.
    I also recommend that you look around for the right synagogue. Synagogue's are not one size fits all. Each one is different and even within a type of synagogue such as a Sefardi one or a Chabad one, things are conducted differently.

[q_q_]

I find public prayers incredibly boring and I never go to the synagogue.

  You should go to a Sefaradi shul. Very livly. Go to the Selihot prayers this month, also even the regular prayers- its uplifting.

one shouldn't pick and choose his minhag based on the service he prefers.

there are lively ashkenazi services too.. many smaller shuls have them.

sephardim , just like ashkenazim, also have the big shuls with the long drawn out service, and the small ones with the livelier services.

I don't know if zelhar is ashkenazi or sephardi, but I don't tihnk you'd like it if sephardim didn't like the service in their shul, and ashkenazim were taking advantage of it and telling them to come to ashkenazi shuls instead.   And, as if -that's- the problem

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

qq- usually Sefardi shuls are livly. I mean I never have been in or heard of a boring Sefardi shul. (and the big ones, are even more exciting, becuase more people). No offense to Askenazim, but the style is different. Even though their are parts where everyone prays and sings together, it is not to the extent that Sefardim have.

[Zelhar]

I'm Ashkenazi but I am not too particular about what Schul to go if any as I know very little about prayers anyway. There are both kind of schuls nearby and both are attended mainly by elderly people, especially the Ashkenazis where I think the average age of a regular attender is 80...

The thing is that I don't like the idea of prayer altogether. To me it seems a better idea to address God individually rather than by preset times and texts. I don't think I can identify with each preset prayer so what's the point of joining in such a prayer ?

Anyway attending Schul in Sabbat is out of the question from my part, at most I might go in the high holidays.

[q_q_]

qq- usually Sefaradi shuls are livly. I mean I never have been in or heard of a boring Sefaradi shul. (and the big ones, are even more exciting, becuase more people). No offense to Askenazim, but the style is different. Even though their are parts where everyone prays and sings together, it is not to the extent that Sefaradim have.

come to the UK and i'll send you to the most boring shul you've ever seen. It's sephardi.
it's a very old shul.
 
They have a chazzan that elongates the service and sings more than any chazzan in any ashkenazi shul.  Of course, there are more old ashkenazi shuls than old sephardi ones. Hence your statistic that usually sephardi shuls are lively.  But avoid the old shuls

Point is.. There are many many young communities with lively shuls. The big old shuls are going out of fashion.

[q_q_]

I'm Ashkenazi but I am not too particular about what Schul to go if any as I know very little about prayers anyway. There are both kind of schuls nearby and both are attended mainly by elderly people, especially the Ashkenazis where I think the average age of a regular attender is 80...

The thing is that I don't like the idea of prayer altogether. To me it seems a better idea to address G-d individually rather than by preset times and texts. I don't think I can identify with each preset prayer so what's the point of joining in such a prayer ?

this 80+ shul is precisely the type of shul you should avoid - in favour of a younger lively one.

the small lively ones are quite individual, alot of it is each person praying with kavanah(concentration) There's an atmosphere of individual concentration, like for many people a library facilitates study of books, because of the atmosphere. 
I am not talking about with a big shul. The atmosphere in a small focussed shul is completely different.  I wouldn't call it lively.. But focussed.

Anyway attending Schul in Sabbat is out of the question from my part, at most I might go in the high holidays.

the problem with doing that is you are seeing the longest most boring service!

this is why alot of people only go twice a year or 3/4/5 times a year, and it actually puts them off going weekly.  By going the few times a year, that's their quota for the year.

they've paid their dues!
they've done their bit!
they've done the travail to ensure that their father and grandfather and great grandfathers won't turn in their grave and say you've gone completely off the rails! 'cos when you go up there(i.e. when you die) you can say "Ah, but I always went to shul on the 'high holy days' " !! and hopefully  you didn't marry out, and better, that you married and married jewish!




 

[muman613]

Shalom,

I am a bit perplexed by the lack of enthusiasm for the community. The whole idea of shul is that the communal prayer is so much more powerful than the individual prayer. The power of the Tzibbur is that we are davening together for a common goal. I am sorry if your shul experience has been boring. Perhaps it would do you some good to study the prayers, the significance of them, and try to take something with you for your concentration {kevannah} when you daven. It is important to feel the worlds, to make them a part of yourself. You should concentrate on your prayer, and be aware of the community so that you can say your Amens and join in the singing prayers. I have improved much in the last five years and now keep up with the hebrew prayers. I have studied the meanings and brought books on each of the prayers and their deep, kabbalistic meanings.

Our siddurs are full of very special words, not just mumbo jumbo. The men of the great assembly knew what was essential for the Jewish neshama {soul} and composed pieces which speak to Hashem on many mystical levels. I cherish these words and attempt to sing them to Hashem each day.

I have grown to love my community even though we are not all the same. We have some Sephardim, some Chabad, some Persian, and we all share our minhag. We also have different political views and I still love them. I feel that the community is what Judaism is and to take the importance of our fellow Jews out of our prayers make us just like the goyim.

muman613

[takebackourtemple]

one shouldn't pick and choose his minhag based on the service he prefers.

   I disagree. The most important thing is to go.

Anyway attending Schul in Sabbat is out of the question from my part, at most I might go in the high holidays.

   You're missing out. I would recommend a Chabad one. Not one with all orthodox members, but one of the congregations that reach out and have members from all Jewish backgrounds. I know Q_Q_ and Tzvi won't like what I have to say and I'm not advocating that people drive, but go to one where most of the members do.
   Go to a Friday night service instead of a Saturday morning one and then stay for the meal afterwards. You will have interesting conversations with people at the dinner table. If you choose the right congregation, this will not be boring and will serve as a step towards becoming more familiar with the services.

[q_q_]

one shouldn't pick and choose his minhag based on the service he prefers.

   I disagree. The most important thing is to go.

you disagree do you? 

i'm glad that you didn't do a good job stating your disagreement.

Anyway attending Schul in Sabbat is out of the question from my part, at most I might go in the high holidays.

   You're missing out. I would recommend a Chabad one. Not one with all orthodox members, but one of the congregations that reach out and have members from all Jewish backgrounds. I know Q_Q_ and Tzvi won't like what I have to say and I'm not advocating that people drive, but go to one where most of the members do.
   Go to a Friday night service instead of a Saturday morning one and then stay for the meal afterwards. You will have interesting conversations with people at the dinner table. If you choose the right congregation, this will not be boring and will serve as a step towards becoming more familiar with the services.

whatever floats your boat.

I'm sure a motley crew shul would not be boring. It may be very interesting, but so would any other oddball experience.  No harm in trying it, but it's worth trying a normal shul too(and not a big one. A small focussed one).

[takebackourtemple]

one shouldn't pick and choose his minhag based on the service he prefers.

   I disagree. The most important thing is to go.

you disagree do you? 
i'm glad that you didn't do a good job stating your disagreement.

   This is the type of philosophy that Rabbi Hillel would have supported. One of his big things was the debate about how the Shma had to be said. His ruling was that it doesn't matter how it is said as long as it is done.

I'm sure a motley crew shul would not be boring. It may be very interesting, but so would any other oddball experience.  No harm in trying it, but it's worth trying a normal shul too(and not a big one. A small focussed one).

   As long as it is legitimate, there should be no problem. The reform and conservative don't practice Judaism, but Chabad is perfectly legitimate.