General Category > General Discussion
Repost from A7 - On the attack on Prof Sternhell
Ulli:
--- Quote from: MackaB on October 03, 2008, 05:29:22 PM ---Perhaps Roni did it?
Do you think he could make a pipe bomb?
I wouldn't overlook the possibility.
--- End quote ---
You should ask Chaim on this weeks ask-jtf.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 03, 2008, 12:54:33 PM ---
--- Quote ---You are all emotional and unable to deal with facts and logic in this issue. Or, you're just not able to analyse things at a reasonable level. Or some mixture.
--- End quote ---
q_q_,
You seem to be the emotional one because you constantly are trying to demean me. First by accusing me of slander and now of being 'all emotional and unable to deal with facts'.
How are you to be able to judge my ability to deal with facts and logic in this issue? You, q_q_, really are the master of all knowledge and must I bow to your superior arguing tactics? Obviously I jest because I dont see a speck of logic or facts in your presentation.
You just dont like what Pipes and Plaut said about Chamish, so now you are on the war path against them. Unfortunately, for you, most peoples opinion of Chamish is that he is 'out-there' on much of his theories. Do a google search for Mr. Chamish and you will find much information which indicates he is not respected for his opinions.
So what you must do, as a Chamish believer, is discredit me through your name calling and demeaning tone. This is not surprising because this tactic is used by many on the left. I am one who gives people the benefit of the doubt, till they prove otherwise. You are not convincing me, nor do I think you are convincing anyone else that Mr Chamish is to be believed.
muman613
PS: Do you believe that America perpetrated 9/11? http://www.rense.com/general14/attass.htm {Warning link to neo-nazi site Rense.com where Chamish is published}
--- End quote ---
The 1 thing you ask me to respond to there is in your "ps"
I didn't call myself a "Chamish believer" or a Chamish disbeliever.
The answer is No. And I don't believe random things that chamish writes.
I told you in a previous thread, that the evidence he publicised on rabin, is not dependent on him. You don't have to trust him. Trust Natan Gefen instead if you want. Trust xrays and medical reports and documentation of court trials, and shamgar commission report. You obviously cannot examine evidence for yourself, so you need a gadol to rely on. Chamish is not a gadol to anybody. You think i'm like you. Unable to examine facts for myself, and thus if I say Chamish is right on something, I must be a chamish believer that believes everything he claims. I repeat. The evidence he publicised on rabin is not dependent on him. Neither is the story on Avishai Raviv - who you had never heard of. If you were able to get the jist on chamish you'd have known about Avishai Raviv. (i'm sure you still don't get it about avishai raviv, though i'm sure i explained it in a previous thread you were in, and you responded shocked as if you understnnd the gravity of the situation with him. But I do doubt that you got it)
I am not "on the warpath" against plaut or pipes. I actually said where Plaut is good.. (as well as where he is bad).
All you write is empty rhetoric. No facts.
I dealt with your stupid arguments..
You mention
"I hold Obama accountable because we are judged by whom we associate with. Chamish has associated with some very shady neo-nazis and thusly I will judge him."
So I went to some effort in analysing that.. and you ran away.
Just as you run away from my criticism of Plaut. (which as I said, implies nothing other than criticism of Plaut)
Why bother bringing up these obviously ill thought out empty arguments.
muman613:
q_q_,
As I said before, you are entitled to believe whatever you want. In my opinion you are a bit too myopic and missing the point which I have been making. You really believe his Rabin assassination theory, I dont buy it. I have an Israeli friend who says this whole Barry Chamish nonsense is childish and fantastic. You are entitled to your fantasies. Who am I to talk about reality?
There is no use in continuing this controversy as I will continue to cast dispersions on these theories and you will continue to believe them. You use accidents and drunk driving convictions as if there is some hidden hand which controls these events. I know in my life I have seen car accidents and drunk drivers and I dont think that the cabal is responsible. In my opinion one must ask oneself who is the one who makes the story. In this case I dont believe most of what Chamish says. As a result I dont put much trust in anything he says. I dont believe in UFOs and he wrote about UFOs. He wrote about aliens controlling Israel, and I think thats nuts. He wrote that the USA is behind 9/11 and that is wingnut wacko. Oh, he wrote about Rabins assassination and someone on JTF really believes that... Hmmm...
I am not debating the merits or demerits of the Rabin theory. I dont have the facts except the Israelis I know dont give much credence to this 'theory'. I dont know if the Kahanists put much belief in this theory because I am new to this ideology. I asked others for their input on this issue and nobody has offered me any. But anyone who says that America was behind 9/11 is immediately on my crepe list. This is my primary reason for casting light on his darker theories.
Let us go on our ways because this is not going anywhere. If you are on a mission to prove that Chamish theories are right, you are entitled to post anything pro-Chamish.
I wish you a good week and may you be sealed in the book of life.
muman613
--- Quote ---Barry Chamish interview:
"THERE WAS THIS UFO WAVE AND ASSOCIATED WITH IT WERE GIANT SIGHTINGS....UNFORTUNATELY, I HAVEN'T REACHED THE RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY AND I SHOULD...THAT WAS THE BIG CRIME. AND THAT'S WHAT THEY DID IN ISRAEL ALL OVER AGAIN IN '93, THEY HAD THEIR WAY WITH JEWISH WOMEN. AND AS STRANGE AS IT SOUNDS, LOOK AT THIS BOOK "RETURN OF THE GIANTS".I USUALLY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE DO YOU KNOW THAT MY ENEMIES JUST DESTROY ME...NOW I TAKE THE POINT OF VIEW THAT THEY'RE NOT FROM OUTERSPACE. MORE AND MORE I AM BEGINNING TO SEE THAT THESE ARE SOME SORT OF INTERDIMENSIONAL DEMONS OF SOME KIND."
--- End quote ---
http://www.chabad.info/index_old.php?&url=article_en&id=10143
http://www.greatdreams.com/chamish.htm
http://www.rense.com/general28/brit.htm
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/chamishgiants.html
Very good info on Chamish 'stories'
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesChamish.html
q_q_:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 04, 2008, 10:39:28 PM ---q_q_,
As I said before, you are entitled to believe whatever you want. In my opinion you are a bit too myopic and missing the point which I have been making. You really believe his Rabin assassination theory, I dont buy it. I have an Israeli friend who says this whole Barry Chamish nonsense is childish and fantastic. You are entitled to your fantasies. Who am I to talk about reality?
--- End quote ---
I have an israeli friend that was skeptical, then I showed him the evidence and he was convinced, and horrified.
(and that's absolutely true)..
See, I can answer your pointless arguments with equally pointless counters. Your "arguments" have no substance.
Don't bother. You are wasting everybodys' time.
I am only responding because you write this rubbish publically and people that don't know may be misled.
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 04, 2008, 10:39:28 PM ---There is no use in continuing this controversy as I will continue to cast dispersions
--- End quote ---
One casts aspersions, deary.
Dispersion is a concept in physics.
This is the second time i've corrected you on that very point.
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 04, 2008, 10:39:28 PM ---I will continue to cast dispersions on these theories and you will continue to believe them. You use accidents and drunk driving convictions as if there is some hidden hand which controls these events.
--- End quote ---
QUOTE ME
and if I did say anything of a driving accident or drunk driving, I guarantee it was not as a -proof- of any conspiracy, and nothing to do with rabin. But quote me.
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 04, 2008, 10:39:28 PM ---I know in my life I have seen car accidents and drunk drivers and I dont think that the cabal is responsible. In my opinion one must ask oneself who is the one who makes the story. In this case I dont believe most of what Chamish says. As a result I dont put much trust in anything he says. I dont believe in UFOs and he wrote about UFOs. We wrote about aliens controlling Israel, and I think thats nuts. He wrote that the USA is behind 9/11 and that is wingnut wacko. Oh, he wrote about Rabins assassination and someone on JTF really believes that... Hmmm...
--- End quote ---
I am not convinced by most of what he writes either. I don't look into it, either.
But I told you already that the evidence about rabin is INDEPENDENT of him.
It doesn't go in, does it? does it? does it? DOES IT?
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 04, 2008, 10:39:28 PM ---I am not debating the merits or demerits of the Rabin theory. I dont have the facts except the Israelis I know dont give much credence to this 'theory'. I dont know if the Kahanists put much belief in this theory because I am new to this ideology. I asked others for their input on this issue and nobody has offered me any. But anyone who says that America was behind 9/11 is immediately on my crepe list. This is my primary reason for casting light on his darker theories.
--- End quote ---
yes, i've noticed your methodology.
but as I said, it's not purely "his theory". The core of it is something you can prove from facts.
Facts that you don't know.
But we are talking about evidence independent of anything he claims.
(and for your mind, i'll tell you, it's evidence produced by others too)
So your criticism of him is irrelevant to the case.
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 04, 2008, 10:39:28 PM ---Let us go on our ways because this is not going anywhere. If you are on a mission to prove that Chamish theories are right, you are entitled to post anything pro-Chamish.
--- End quote ---
this isn't going anywhere because your mind is "effectively" incapable of taking it anywhere.
my position on chamish states good points and bad points about him.. Not just "anything pro"
that kind of a position is WAY too difficult for you to grasp.
and the other thing that is WAY beyond you, is that this has nothing to do with the correctness of the evidence he brought out - by him and natan gefen - regarding rabin.
So now you can look for bad things to say about natan gefen and pretend that this invalidates the medical records he brought out. (medical records that made the Dr that signed it go bright red and speechless when interviewed about them!)
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 04, 2008, 10:39:28 PM ---I wish you a good week and may you be sealed in the book of life.
muman613
--- End quote ---
you too, and I wish you more knowledge,
Maybe one day you'll be able to have a discussion with me on this based on facts, but I don't think so.
Better that you JUST increase your knowledge in judaism, and stop commenting on subjects that you have no interest in looking into. Subjects that are effectively way beyond you.
muman613:
q_q_,
You seem to see conspiracies where there are none. The bottom line is that Chamish is wrong to associate with those who are our enemies. I have found posting after posting on various anti-semitic sites which support Chamishs so-called theories. I will continue to place more confidence in things written by the likes of Plaut and Pipes before I would place confidence in anything Chamish writes.
UFOs and 9/11 conspiracy theories are simply a device this man uses to bilk people out of their money. If you really want to support him I will provide a link where you can donate to his cause.
You seem to think that by using a lot of big words that it somehow makes you seem more informed. But you are no more informed than any Joe off the street. You believe the things you want to believe. Where you an actual witness yourself? Do you believe everything that someone with an agenda tells you? You believe that you see something in the conspiracy tapes. People actually believe that the Trade Center was taken down by explosives and not by the heat from the fire caused by the impact of the jet plane. I will not argue with you on this.
You should watch it with the personal attacks. You do not accomplish your goal as you will not be able to intimidate me. I have stood up to much worse adversaries than yourself. It is simply that my humility forces me to seek peace and understanding between Jews {Ahavas Yisroel} before making a judgment. If you think that by pointing out spelling errors that it proves your point then you are making an error. I have been known to have very good spelling and grammar skills and I am sure that you have made errors also.
I am sure you are one who supported the ideas of *kin* {read backward} who seemed to parrot the ideas of Chamish {was *KIN* really Barry Chamish?}. Both Chamish and *kin* are atrocious at spelling and grammar but that doesn't seem to bother you.
I will allow this to be the final word on this thread about this issue...
muman613
Dont say I didnt do Chamish a favor:
http://www.thebarrychamishwebsite.com/donate.htm
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