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muman613:

--- Quote from: Zelhar on October 07, 2008, 12:10:00 PM ---I think that the Kapparot slaying must be stopped. I wish it was forbidden by law. it is utterly disgusting wasteful foreign custom. It is not a real Jewish minhag but a foreign and superstitious one.

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Zelhar,

This is your opinion. According to the Rabbis I follow it is a well established minhag. I will find for you several examples of this:

From Aish.com
http://www.aish.com/hhYomK/hhYomKDefault/Wings_and_Prayers.asp

--- Quote ---So what's with the chickens?

Well, the definitive primary Jewish legal text, the Shulchan Aruch, or "Code of Jewish Law," notes the custom of Kapparot, but disapproves of its practice. The authoritative glosses of the Rama (Rabbi Moshe Isserles), though, which present normative Ashkenazic practice, note that the custom has its illustrious defenders, and maintains that where it exists it should be preserved.

The custom's intent and meaning are elucidated in the widely accepted commentary known as the Mishneh Brurah , written by the renowned "Chofetz Chaim," Rabbi Yisroel Meir Kagan. Citing earlier sources, he explains that when one performs the ritual, he should consider that what will happen to the bird -- its slaughter -- would be happening to him were strict justice, untempered by God's mercy, the rule. As a result, the supplicant will come to regret his sins and "through his repentance" cause God "to revoke any evil decree from him."

So it seems that the Kapparot-custom is essentially a spur to meditation on the need for atonement, and intended to stir feelings of repentance and recommitment to the performance of good deeds. Indeed, it is customary to provide the slaughtered chicken to a poor person.

Similar to Kapporot is the Rosh Hashana custom of Tashlich, which is likewise commonly misconstrued -- even by people who should be better informed about things Jewish than The Times -- as a magical "casting away of sins." The practice of visiting a body of water and reciting verses and prayers, however, has no such direct effect. It, like Kapporot, is an opportunity for self-sensitization to our need for repentance. The verse "And cast in the depths of the ocean all of their sins," prominently recited in the prayers for the ritual, is a metaphor for what we can effect with our sincere repentance and determination to be better in the future.

As Rabbi Avrohom Yitzchok Sperling writes in his classic work known as the "Ta'amei Haminhagim," or "Explications of Customs," Tashlich reminds us that the day of ultimate reckoning may be upon us far sooner that we imagine, just as fish swimming freely in the water may find themselves captured suddenly in the hungry fishmonger's net -- and that we dare not live lives of spiritual leisure on the assumption that there will always be time for repentance when we grow old.

All too often we moderns tend to view ancient Jewish laws, customs and rituals as quaint relics of the distant past that evoke, at most, warm and nostalgic feelings of ethnic identity.


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From Chabad:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/407513/jewish/Kapparot-The-Chicken-Thing.htm

--- Quote ---What makes Judaism and the history of the Jewish people so fascinating and colorful is that it is so very, very old. One of these vestiges of the past is kapores or kapparot, "the chicken thing."

Whether one calls it religion, custom or mysticism is not really important. Kapores is still carried out in various forms by many Jews depending on whether they trace their roots to a place where the custom was popular. Kapores probably goes back to about the 9th century C.E. and was practiced almost exclusively by Ashkenazi Jews. It is not mentioned in the Talmud at all.

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It may be that you are not of Ashkenazic background which is why this custom is foreign to you. But that is no reason for you to besmirch our minhag, thank you.

muman613

Zelhar:
Actually I'm Ashkenazi but since I'm secular it make very little difference to me. However not all ashkenazi jews follow this minhag. The rabbis who approve the continuation of this minhag do so for tbecause they object to any change and especially they fear that people might deduce that since kapparot is not necessary so are Terilin, Tzizit etc.

Last year I read that one of the rabbis wrote about kapparon. I think basically he was in line with the quotes which you have brought. However he also adressed the issue of animal rights and he said that there is no tzaar baalei chaim involved and without a doubt the salin chicken would be very happy to die for the purpose of redeeming a Jewish soul. I thought  this is complete nonsense but my religious friend who is very clever said it makes sense from his perspective. And he also said that if he had been a cow then his wish ould be to become food for humans since that would fulfill the cow's purpose.

muman613:

--- Quote from: Zelhar on October 07, 2008, 01:00:33 PM ---Actually I'm Ashkenazi but since I'm secular it make very little difference to me. However not all ashkenazi jews follow this minhag. The rabbis who approve the continuation of this minhag do so for tbecause they object to any change and especially they fear that people might deduce that since kapparot is not necessary so are Terilin, Tzizit etc.

Last year I read that one of the rabbis wrote about kapparon. I think basically he was in line with the quotes which you have brought. However he also adressed the issue of animal rights and he said that there is no tzaar baalei chaim involved and without a doubt the salin chicken would be very happy to die for the purpose of redeeming a Jewish soul. I thought  this is complete nonsense but my religious friend who is very clever said it makes sense from his perspective. And he also said that if he had been a cow then his wish ould be to become food for humans since that would fulfill the cow's purpose.

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Zelhar,

You must be one who does not believe in Torah Baal Peh, or Orah Torah. It is very clear about the mitzvot of Tefillin and Tzittzits which you seem to brush off. These are VERY, VERY important mitzvahs and they are straight from the Shema prayer.

Do you say Shema? Maybe you should investigate this and discover that the Shema describes three important mitzvahs which you discount. The prayer which begins "Shema Yisroel Hashem Elokaynu, Hashem ECHAD!" contains the mitzvahs of Tefillin {Bind these words to your arm as frontlets between the eyes". Shema also contains the mitzvah of Mezuzah {Write these words on the doorpost of your house}. And it also contains the mitzvah of TzitTzits which the whole third verse describes.

From Aish.com @ http://www.aish.com/literacy/mitzvahs/Shema_Yisrael.asp
The full Shema is comprised of 3 paragraphs from the Torah. The first paragraph, Deut. 6:4-9, contains the concepts of loving G-d, learning Torah, and passing on Jewish tradition to our children.

These verses also refer specifically to the mitzvot of tefillin and mezuzah. While praying, we wear tefillin as a visible sign of G-d close to our hearts and close to our brains, to show that our every thought and emotions are directed toward G-d. The mezuzah scroll is affixed to our doorposts to show that we are secure in G-d's presence.

The second paragraph, Deut. 11:13-21, speaks about the positive consequences of fulfilling the mitzvot, and the negative consequences of not.

The third paragraph, Numbers 15:37-41, speaks specifically about the mitzvah to wear tzitzit, and the Exodus from Egypt. Tzitzit are a physical reminder of the 613 commandments in the Torah. This is derived from the numerical value of the word tzitzit (600), plus the five knots and eight strings on each corner, totaling 613.

The specific words come from Numbers 15:37-41 which read:
37 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying:  38 'Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them throughout their generations fringes in the corners of their garments, and that they put with the fringe of each corner a thread of blue.  39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the L-RD, and do them; and that ye go not about after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go astray; 40 that ye may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy unto your G-d.  41 I am the L-RD your G-d, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your G-d: I am the L-RD your G-d.' {P}

If you dont believe this you are surely denying the very essence of the Jewish idea of mitzvot.

muman613

PS: If I am wrong please tell me, you may be one who keeps them but just dont understand why. I am one who happens to keep these three mitzvahs and feel they are essential for Judaism to continue to exist.

PPS: I hope the Rabbis do a good job of explaining the difference between Minhag {Customs} and Mitzvot {Commandments/Ways to come close}.

Zevida:

--- Quote from: Rubystars on October 06, 2008, 05:09:26 PM ---A while back PETA had a campaign where they compared the slaughter of chickens to the Holocaust. They put Jewish (human) lives on the same level as that of a chicken.

They feel that it's really a crime just as much as the Holocaust is to kill millions of chickens because they believe every one of those chickens has the same right to life that you or any other human being does.

The campaign was called "Holocaust on your plate"

http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=724


--- Quote ---The display, titled "Holocaust on your Plate," was launched in February on the West Coast, drawing immediate outrage. It consists of eight 60-square-foot panels, each showing photos of factory farms next to photos from Nazi death camps.


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That's just sickening.  I couldn't give a flying crap if Hitler had slaughtered 6 million chickens.  That would have made for one hell of a feast!  The loss of six million human lives, however, is indescribable.  Who knows what those people would have accomplished. 

I had read that kosher slaughtering was much more humane than the methods used by industrial slaughterhouses.  I'll have to find the article again.

Tzvi Ben Roshel1:

--- Quote from: Zelhar on October 07, 2008, 12:10:00 PM ---I think that the Kapparot slaying must be stopped. I wish it was forbidden by law. it is utterly disgusting wasteful foreign custom. It is not a real Jewish minhag but a foreign and superstitious one.

--- End quote ---

 Why? It is not wastful at all. If you eat chicken or meat, then I dont see any difference between that and doing Kapparot. The food was(is) given to poor people. My Rav is not technically again't it, but we dont do it in shul, he says to do it with money instead and then the $ is donated becuase we dont want them to eat chicken with our sins (so to speak, its symbolic, but still).

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