Author Topic: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate  (Read 860 times)

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Offline Americanhero1

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Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« on: December 05, 2008, 03:02:35 PM »
COLUMBUS, Ohio – Oil prices hit four-year lows Friday as employers cut the highest number of jobs in 34 years. The continuing decline in prices is so dramatic and so sudden that it is raising the prospect that gas prices could soon fall below $1 a gallon.

The worst jobs data in 34 years on Friday just added more fuel to the deepening global recession as U.S. employers slashed a far worse-than-expected 533,000 jobs in November and the unemployment rate rose to a 15-year high of 6.7 percent.

A gallon of gasoline can be had for 50 cents less than it cost just last month, and people are starting to talk about $1 gas.

Granted, gas prices are a long way off from that magic number last seen in March 1999 when prices were at 97 cents a gallon, according to motor club AAA. Prices at the pump fell 1.6 cents overnight to $1.773 nationally, according to AAA, the Oil Price Information Service and Wright Express.

But consider what has happened since July 11 when a barrel of oil hit a record $147.27 and a gallon of gas was $4.117 on July 17. In less than five months, oil has fallen 72 percent.

On Friday, light, sweet crude for January delivery settled at $40.81 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, down by nearly $3 per barrel. Prices fell as low at $40.50, levels last seen in December 2004.

Gasoline futures for January delivery tumbled to 90 cents.

For gas prices to get close to a $1, oil prices probably would need to fall another $10 a barrel — something that would have impossible to fathom during first part of this year as oil prices soared near $150 per barrel.

"Just seeing that '1' up there is just hard to imagine," said Kevin Keating, 65, an attorney as he filled up his Volvo S60 at a station in Phoenix that advertised prices at $1.67. "Wasn't that long ago that we worried about the '4' being up there."

Prices in New York City are well above the national averages, but still well off their highs of nearly $5 this summer.

"When gas prices are OK, we make a little profit," said Mamady Kourouma, 36, a cab driver from Guinea who paid $2.41 a gallon at a station in Chelsea.

With wages stagnant, home prices plummeting and foreclosure rated soaring, dollar-a-gallon gas may help mom fill up in the family minivan and cab drivers in New York City, but prices that low also would truly speak to how rotten the economy has become.

"The economy at that point worldwide would be in a serious, serious deterioration," said Geoff Sundstrom, spokesman for AAA.

Tom Kloza, publisher and chief oil analyst at Oil Price Information Service, said Thursday on his blog that retail prices could fetch $1.25 a gallon soon in parts of the Midwest, including Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri.

Already, some parts of the country are seeing prices around that level. The Web site gasbuddy.com, where motorists can post local gas prices, motorists can fill up for $1.29 in Neelyville, Mo., a village of about 500 people near the Arkansas state line.

The jobs number suggests that demand for gasoline, which has been running well below year-ago levels even with the cheaper prices in the last several weeks, will fall even more in early 2009 as work-related driving plummets, said Tom Kloza, publisher and chief oil analyst at Oil Price Information Service.

"I believe that January 2009 will represent the most 'challenging' and ugly economic month of my lifetime, and my first memory is of Sputnik," Kloza said.

There is plenty of reason to suspect Kloza is right.

Since the start of the recession, the economy has lost 1.9 million jobs, the number of unemployed people has increased by 2.7 million and the jobless rate is up 1.7 percentage points. The meltdown in financial markets has crushed lending, the Detroit 3 are on the brink of bankruptcy without a big government bailout and earlier this week, the National Bureau of Economic Research determined that the U.S. has been in a recession for a year.

Friday's report was much deeper than the 320,000 job cuts economists were forecasting. If there is a plus side it is that the unemployment rate did not climb to the 6.8 percent level economists were expecting.

Kloza does not believe prices will make it to a $1. Gas prices neared a dollar last time on Dec. 18, 2001, three months after the terrorist attacks and the country in its last recession, when prices hit $1.08 a gallon.

Though the weak gasoline prices point how bad the economy is, they also could help it turnaround.

Kloza figures the U.S. gasoline bill at $1.75 per gallon average will be about $20.5 billion this month, down about $16 billion a year ago. Five years ago, the bill was $17.2 billion.

"That could be one important spur to some kind of economic recovery," Sundstrom said.

In other Nymex trading, gasoline futures tumbled 6.83 cents to settle at 90 cents. Heating oil slid 8.26 cents to $1.4265 a gallon while natural gas for January delivery shed 24.7 cents to sell at $5.77 per 1,000 cubic feet.

In London, January Brent crude slipped by $2.42 cents to $39.86 on the ICE Futures exchange.

___

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081205/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices

Offline briann

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2008, 03:18:25 PM »
If oil goes below $25.00 a barrel for an extended period of time....  it may be plausible.    As a side note... if this happens... there will be very little incentive for increased domestic drilling and mining... and we may even see oil companies asking for bailouts HAHAHAHA


Offline New Yorker

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2008, 03:24:13 PM »


I want us to go to alternate fuels and become energy independent regardless, may oil become worthless!
Nuke the arabs till they glow, then shoot them in the dark.

Offline New Yorker

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2008, 03:30:02 PM »


This just goes to show, that "peak oil", and "comsumption from China" was not the reason for the rediculous oil prices, all of that was a lie! They were scamming us!  >:(
We must get off oil and make it a worthless commodity.
Nuke the arabs till they glow, then shoot them in the dark.

Offline RanterMaximus

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2008, 03:33:36 PM »
New Yorker, you are right on with both of your comments.

Offline briann

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2008, 03:37:42 PM »


This just goes to show, that "peak oil", and "comsumption from China" was not the reason for the rediculous oil prices, all of that was a lie! They were scamming us!  >:(
We must get off oil and make it a worthless commodity.

Yes, but now there is no incentive to get off oil anymore.  People are all going to completely forget or ignore that their oil is coming from Muslims...

Offline muman613

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 03:42:47 PM »


This just goes to show, that "peak oil", and "comsumption from China" was not the reason for the rediculous oil prices, all of that was a lie! They were scamming us!  >:(
We must get off oil and make it a worthless commodity.

Yes, but now there is no incentive to get off oil anymore.  People are all going to completely forget or ignore that their oil is coming from Muslims...

Deja Vu...

We have been here before... Maybe you are too young to remember how much worse it was in the late 70s when we had a real shortage of gas. This last oil bubble seemed like nothing to me. I drive 140 miles a day and was pumping about $170/week in gas.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline briann

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 03:52:42 PM »


This just goes to show, that "peak oil", and "comsumption from China" was not the reason for the rediculous oil prices, all of that was a lie! They were scamming us!  >:(
We must get off oil and make it a worthless commodity.

Yes, but now there is no incentive to get off oil anymore.  People are all going to completely forget or ignore that their oil is coming from Muslims...

Deja Vu...

We have been here before... Maybe you are too young to remember how much worse it was in the late 70s when we had a real shortage of gas. This last oil bubble seemed like nothing to me. I drive 140 miles a day and was pumping about $170/week in gas.



I vaguely remember it... as I was a pre-teen... BUT!!!  the gas shortages (Gas Lines) were artificially created by Carter putting caps on pricing.  There were no gas-lines in other countries during that time.  In fact... in econ... we like to use Carter's example of what happens when you put price caps on commodities.  Its very textbook.







Offline muman613

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2008, 04:13:05 PM »

<snip>

I vaguely remember it... as I was a pre-teen... BUT!!!  the gas shortages (Gas Lines) were artificially created by Carter putting caps on pricing.  There were no gas-lines in other countries during that time.  In fact... in econ... we like to use Carter's example of what happens when you put price caps on commodities.  Its very textbook.


Here is some information about the 1979 Oil crisis to which I refer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis

"
The 1979 (or second) oil crisis in the United States occurred in the wake of the Iranian Revolution. Amid massive protests, the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, fled his country in early 1979, allowing Ayatollah Khomeini to gain control. The protests shattered the Iranian oil sector. While the new regime resumed oil exports, it was inconsistent and at a lower volume, forcing prices to go up. Saudi Arabia and other OPEC nations, under the presidency of Dr. Mana Alotaiba increased production to offset the decline, and the overall loss in production was about 4 percent. [2] However, a widespread panic resulted, driving the price far higher than would be expected under normal circumstances. Price controls in the United States on domestic sources of oil also exacerbated the situation.

In 1980, following the Iraqi invasion of Iran, oil production in Iran nearly stopped, and Iraq's oil production was severely cut as well.

After 1980, oil prices began a six-year decline that culminated with a 46 percent price drop in 1986. This was due to reduced demand (helped by Ronald Reagan ending domestic US oil price controls)[3][4] and over-production, which caused OPEC to lose its unity. Oil exporters such as Mexico, Nigeria, and Venezuela expanded production. Ending of price controls allowed the US and Europe to get more oil from Prudhoe Bay and the North Sea.
"

It was a combination of price controls and the Iranian Islamic revolution which caused the shortages...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2008, 04:18:59 PM »
it's just an indication to me of something called "deflation".  Since nobody has money anymore, the value of the dollar is much better before these economic woas took place.

What goes up must come down...and what is down will go back up again.  That's the nature of things.
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Offline briann

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2008, 04:50:34 PM »
Quote
It was a combination of price controls and the Iranian Islamic revolution which caused the shortages...


The reduced supply was obviously real... no one would argue that it wasnt...... and it lead to increased speculation on oil which led to increased demand which along with the reduction in supply led to higher prices.  HOWEVER... this did NOT cause the gas lines and the gas rationing.  And again... if it had... there would have been rationing in other countries... which there wasn't.

If someone tells you otherwise.... they are either biased, or ignorant.   (If you got the info from Wikipedia... its a combination)

If Carter wasn't so economically retarded... he wouldn't have implemented price caps... and we would have been in a similar position as we were in 8 months ago.... which is still 100x better than rationing.

If you adjust for inflation.. the highest the price of oil ever got before 2008 was $109.00 per gallon... back in 1979.  Now.... why is it that we didnt start having gas rationing... once the price got deep into the 100's last year??  Why wasn't the government saying.......   Only cars with license plates ending with 'E' can go to the gas station today???

because rationing is an, artificial phenomenon....Created by Carterism.... which is why it didnt occur in other countries in 79.


« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 05:01:41 PM by briann »

Offline briann

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2008, 04:53:40 PM »
it's just an indication to me of something called "deflation".  Since nobody has money anymore, the value of the dollar is much better before these economic woas took place.

What goes up must come down...and what is down will go back up again.  That's the nature of things.

TRUE Deflation is serious business.   If we start experiencing that... then run for the hills!!!

But as a side-note..... prices of commodities go up and down all the time... and if we look at 'Core' inflation... which ignores many commodities subject to speculation... you'll notice there hasnt been any real deflation as of yet.... BUT that could change.



Offline briann

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2008, 05:02:10 PM »
oohh... I forgot to mention.. Hawaii played around with gas price controls last year....(AS they have the highest prices).

And every time they set a price.... a few weeks later the gas stations starting experiencing shortages.... So the Hawaiin government would re-set the price control to a higher price.... and the same would happend a few weeks later... and eventually... they gave up the scheme.... as it was pointless.

Hawaii loves to experiment on things like this.

Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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Re: Return to $1 gas? Energy prices evaporate
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2008, 10:49:47 PM »
God willing it will fall that far. It now only costs me 18$ to fill up 5 months ago it was 68$ granted I was driving a different car then
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