to all the shmucks who support feiglin.

[Zelhar]

I don't know what exactly Mr Feiglin said about Dr. Goldstein  but if he doesn't accept the unproven explanation of Goldstein receiving warning from the IDF about an imminent massacre, I think he is right to condemn Goldstein's action. The same goes to condemning Yigal Amir. Of course Goldstein and Amir killed evil people which wouldn't be missed, but their actions may have caused severe negative repercussions, for example, The expulsion of the Jews from the ancient city of Hebron was very nearly carried out due to the Goldstein's killings.

[DownwithIslam]

I don't know what exactly Mr Feiglin said about Dr. Goldstein  but if he doesn't accept the unproven explanation of Goldstein receiving warning from the IDF about an imminent massacre, I think he is right to condemn Goldstein's action. The same goes to condemning Yigal Amir. Of course Goldstein and Amir killed evil people which wouldn't be missed, but their actions may have caused severe negative repercussions, for example, The expulsion of the Jews from the ancient city of Hebron was very nearly carried out due to the Goldstein's killings.

Zelhar, both Dr. Goldstein and Yigal Amir are heroes. Their is nothing worth condemning about them.

[DownwithIslam]

The Likud just knocked Feiglin down to the 36th spot on the list. This means he will almost certainly not be a minister in the next knesset. This is what the shmuck Feiglin deserves for trying to help the Likud. That shmuck should of listened to Chaim ben pesach who predicted that they would get rid of him somehow.

[Muck DeFuslims]

                                                                                                                                                                               בס''ד

First, there is no way we can become a meaningful movement if every disagreement descends into name calling and personal insults.

Some of our members had a difference of opinion here. So what? We have to learn to respect each other even when there are differences of opinion.

Moshe Feiglin is not a Kahanist and never claimed to be. Is that a problem? In my opinion, yes. Because I view Kahanism as the only real solution.

I like Feiglin personally, and I certainly do not consider him to be like the other politicians in Israel. I think he sincerely wants to save Israel.

But it is precisely because I like him that I am disappointed by many of his actions. For example:

*Feiglin vigorously condemned Dr. Baruch Goldstein, Hashem yikom damo (may G-d avenge his blood). Dr. Goldstein was a captain in the Israeli army who was informed by his superiors that there would be a huge massacre of the Jews in Kiryat Arba and Chevron by the Arab Nazis. To prevent the massacre, Dr. Goldstein went to Mearat Hamachpelah (the Cave of the Patriachs) and shot to death 29 Muslim terrorists who were praying on the second most sacred Jewish spot in the world. Dr. Goldstein himself was then brutally murdered by the Arab Nazi mob. So he gave his life to prevent a massacre of Jews. As a result of what Dr. Goldstein did, the entire area was curfewed and the planned Arab massacre of Jews never took place. Feiglin strongly condemned Dr. Goldstein. I think that at the least Feiglin should have refused to say anything. He would not have been banned politically for refusing to discuss the issue. But to condemn a Jew who gave his life to save his fellow Jews is something I would never have done. Even if it meant paying a political price.

*Feiglin strongly condemned Yigal Amir, who killed Yitzchak Rabin. My position is that Amir was entrapped by the Shabak (the Israeli KGB) who incited him to kill Rabin, and therefore it is the Shabak which is responsible for the assassination. Because he was entrapped, Amir should be released from prison immediately. This position that I take is not illegal in Israel, and it does not betray a Jew who wanted to save his people (Amir).

*Feiglin has supported and helped numerous Likud politicians who are evil people. He supported Ehud Smolmert, Limor Livnat and other disgusting crooks who eventually worked to surrender Jewish land and expel thousands of Jews from Gush Katif. Call me naive or inflexible or unrealistic, but I will not support corrupt Likud criminals who are destroying the Jewish homeland. Feiglin has made many deals that I believe are morally and ethically wrong just to advance himself in the Likud. I'm sure that he convinced himself that he was doing it for the good of Israel, but I don't trust a leader who makes unsavory deals just to get ahead.

*In the most recent Likud primary, Feiglin strongly supported Benny Begin, the son of Menachem Begin. In fact, Begin was the number two candidate on Feiglin's recommended list of candidates. Benny Begin supported the Sinai retreat that his father carried out; Begin said that he is embarrassed when people say that we must have a Jewish majority in Israel, because such talk is not democratic and it's insulting to the growing Arab Muslim Nazi minority; Begin called Rechavam Zeevi (Gandhi) "moral pollution" for advocating a voluntary transfer of the Arabs out of Israel; but Begin would never refer to the Arab Nazis as "moral pollution"; Begin insisted that Bibi Netanyahu bring Dan Meridor, an extreme leftist traitor, into the LIkud Knesset list - Meridor is a slavish defender of the self-hating "Supreme Court" and Meridor favors suicidal Israeli surrender of the entire Biblical heartland.

*Feiglin is now encouraging all rightwing Jews to vote Likud. The Likud is a disaster that has retreated from more Jewish land than the openly leftist parties. For Feiglin to urge all Jews to vote Likud just so that he could get elected is very bad, in my view. Feiglin will be all by himself out of 30 or 40 Likud Knesset members. For people to vote Likud just because Feiglin is one of the candidates is a big mistake. The rest of the Likud Knesset members are the same old politicians who have failed the Jewish people repeatedly. Having Feiglin there as just one out of 30 or 40 of these Likud Knesset members will not protect Israel.

Well, that's my opinion.

Fabulous post, Chaim. Extremely well written (I don't know why you think you're not an excellent writer), full of pertinent information and politically savvy observations.

What I'd like to know (and perhaps this deserves a separate thread), is WHY HAS JTF BEEN SO STRANGELY SILENT ABOUT THE UPCOMING ISRAELI ELECTION ?

We are now less than two months away from the Feb 10, 2009 election day. JTF has had polls debating whether we should support Sarah Palin in an election she might not even run in, 4 years from now. Yet JTF has barely discussed the Israeli election or endorsed any candidate. This is odd.

On last week's ASK JTF, you were asked if Baruch Marzel was running and you replied that he was. Personally, I think Marzel is the candidate JTF should be endorsing. He's probably the most Kahanist candidate, and his party has some good ideas about revamping the Israeli election process to a more directly representational system.

I do understand there are reasons for you not to endorse Marzel. I remember the dispute you had when he denied receiving funds from JTF.

I understand why Feiglin's running within Likud makes it almost impossible to support him.

Perhaps Noam Federman is correct that it is useless to try to change the Israeli government from within the existing system.

Perhaps JTF doesn't want to get involved because of the legal ramifications of non-Israelis being prohibited from providing financial support to any candidate or party.

In any event, JTF's position on which candidates or parties are worthy of our support should be clarified. If we're not not mobilizing to support anyone, that's fine too. But we should have a clear position.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Feiglin has been wrong on many things, but I don't think he is pure evil--he just thinks he needs to kiss up to the establishment.

In any case, Chaim has never said he is the answer, and certainly is not now. Let's just drop this.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

I don't know what exactly Mr Feiglin said about Dr. Goldstein  but if he doesn't accept the unproven explanation of Goldstein receiving warning from the IDF about an imminent massacre, I think he is right to condemn Goldstein's action. The same goes to condemning Yigal Amir. Of course Goldstein and Amir killed evil people which wouldn't be missed, but their actions may have caused severe negative repercussions, for example, The expulsion of the Jews from the ancient city of Hebron was very nearly carried out due to the Goldstein's killings.

1. You mean the withdrawal from 97% of Chevron. The Jews were not expelled from the tiny section of Chevron where they live.

2. The withdrawal from 97% of Chevron by Pipi Netanyoyo was not because of what Dr. Goldstein did to the Arab Nazi terrorists. On the contrary, Dr. Goldstein's action prevented even more retreats from Judea and Samaria. In response to Dr. Goldstein, the Arab Nazis suspended the negotiations and there was a wave of Arab riots and Arab violence that made implementation of the Oslo surrender agreement much more difficult. The Israeli retreats that had already been agreed upon were delayed for long periods of time because of the Arab violence that followed Dr. Goldstein's action. Dr. Goldstein prevented major portions of Judea and Samaria from being handed over to the Arab Nazis.

3. You say that the IDF warnings about an imminent massacre are unproven. If you research it, you will find that there are witnesses who were friends and relatives of Dr. Goldstein, who attest to the fact that there was an imminent IDF warning of a massacre of Jews. So it is not unproven. Witnesses are proof, unless you believe that the friends and relatives of Dr. Goldstein are lying. If you knew these people, you would know that they are not liars.

4. Yitzchak Rabin and Syrian Nazi dictator Hafez al Assad were very close to an agreement on the Israeli surrender of the entire Golan Heights. If such an agreement would have been signed by Rabin and Assad, it would have been implemented even if Netanyahu had won the election in 1996. Because Netanyoyo said that he would carry out all signed agreements such as Oslo. So Israel would have surrendered the Golan Heights to Nazi Syria - an act of suicidal insanity. Yigal Amir stopped Rabin just before a final agreement was concluded.

I am not advocating that Jews go out and kill Arabs or that they assassinate self-hating Jewish leaders. I am a law-abiding, moderate, enlightened civil rights leader. And I do not want to be banned from running for the Knesset.

But I will never condemn Jews who give their lives to save the Jewish people. And if I ever become Prime Minister, I will honor all Jewish heroes, including the "politically incorrect" ones.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

You couldn't be more wrong.   Chaim never "exposed" Feiglin unless by "expose" you mean calling him a good Jew, which Chaim has done countless times on his program.   You have been proven wrong by those who quoted the interview, and/or heard it in Hebrew (Zelhar), and now your baseless hatred is showing itself.

Kahane Was Right, there is no need to attack DownwithIslam like this.

DownwithIslam, he is at least partly right though. Chaim has not attacked Feiglin. He has called him a good Jew who has unfortunately helped the Likud establishment.

Actually CF, there was plenty of reason for it.  Because I was attacked by him to begin with.  It is only fitting and proper that I respond in kind.   I'm not going to lie down and take his inane attempts at abuse and insults without a retaliation, which he most certainly deserves (far worse than I gave him).   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If Chaim comes in here and explains that I am wrong about Feiglin, then I will admit defeat.

Just give this topic a rest for now--it's not cool to attack everyone you disagree with, especially before a statement from Chaim. Trust me here.

Kahnaewasrightbt unleashed the first personal attack in this thread. You can check the posts.

False.

You are quoted as having said "Your heinous"

First of all, it's you're, not "your," and secondly, that was what prompted me to ask, "who is heinous now...?"   Oh the irony that you insult my reading skills.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kahnaewasrightbt unleashed the first personal attack in this thread. You can check the posts.

Yeah, and I told him off too.

Feiglin is not perfect, but he is better than any current Israeli politician. He has never said he is a Kahanist, and Chaim has always said that he disagrees with him on many things.

Chaimfan, I would support Avigdor Liberman over Feiglin simply because he can't demoralize the right wing as much if something should go wrong.

Avigdor Lieberman has already betrayed his promises to the public ie when he campaigned on the fact that he would never support any 2 state solution, but then once elected, actually came out and said he would support a two state solution with some settlements remaining Israeli...

[DownwithIslam]

I don't know what exactly Mr Feiglin said about Dr. Goldstein  but if he doesn't accept the unproven explanation of Goldstein receiving warning from the IDF about an imminent massacre, I think he is right to condemn Goldstein's action. The same goes to condemning Yigal Amir. Of course Goldstein and Amir killed evil people which wouldn't be missed, but their actions may have caused severe negative repercussions, for example, The expulsion of the Jews from the ancient city of Hebron was very nearly carried out due to the Goldstein's killings.

1. You mean the withdrawal from 97% of Chevron. The Jews were not expelled from the tiny section of Chevron where they live.

2. The withdrawal from 97% of Chevron by Pipi Netanyoyo was not because of what Dr. Goldstein did to the Arab Nazi terrorists. On the contrary, Dr. Goldstein's action prevented even more retreats from Judea and Samaria. In response to Dr. Goldstein, the Arab Nazis suspended the negotiations and there was a wave of Arab riots and Arab violence that made implementation of the Oslo surrender agreement much more difficult. The Israeli retreats that had already been agreed upon were delayed for long periods of time because of the Arab violence that followed Dr. Goldstein's action. Dr. Goldstein prevented major portions of Judea and Samaria from being handed over to the Arab Nazis.

3. You say that the IDF warnings about an imminent massacre are unproven. If you research it, you will find that there are witnesses who were friends and relatives of Dr. Goldstein, who attest to the fact that there was an imminent IDF warning of a massacre of Jews. So it is not unproven. Witnesses are proof, unless you believe that the friends and relatives of Dr. Goldstein are lying. If you knew these people, you would know that they are not liars.

4. Yitzchak Rabin and Syrian Nazi dictator Hafez al Assad were very close to an agreement on the Israeli surrender of the entire Golan Heights. If such an agreement would have been signed by Rabin and Assad, it would have been implemented even if Netanyahu had won the election in 1996. Because Netanyoyo said that he would carry out all signed agreements such as Oslo. So Israel would have surrendered the Golan Heights to Nazi Syria - an act of suicidal insanity. Yigal Amir stopped Rabin just before a final agreement was concluded.

I am not advocating that Jews go out and kill Arabs or that they assassinate self-hating Jewish leaders. I am a law-abiding, moderate, enlightened civil rights leader. And I do not want to be banned from running for the Knesset.

But I will never condemn Jews who give their lives to save the Jewish people. And if I ever become Prime Minister, I will honor all Jewish heroes, including the "politically incorrect" ones.

Chaim, I agree with you totally. Nothing about the actions of Yigal Amir and Dr. Baruch Goldstein are questionable at all. Both actions saved lives and certainly gave monsters, fitting endings. Yitzchak Rabin and the muzzies certainly deserved death. We don't need leaders such as Feiglin who condemn these noble acts. Now its debatable if Feiglin is even a lesser of the evils. Even if he claims to have policies more in line with kahanism, a sellout on his part would be devastating. Him selling out is a real possiblilty and he has shown a strong tendency to do so during his retarded Likud campaign.

[Zelhar]

I don't know what exactly Mr Feiglin said about Dr. Goldstein  but if he doesn't accept the unproven explanation of Goldstein receiving warning from the IDF about an imminent massacre, I think he is right to condemn Goldstein's action. The same goes to condemning Yigal Amir. Of course Goldstein and Amir killed evil people which wouldn't be missed, but their actions may have caused severe negative repercussions, for example, The expulsion of the Jews from the ancient city of Hebron was very nearly carried out due to the Goldstein's killings.

1. You mean the withdrawal from 97% of Chevron. The Jews were not expelled from the tiny section of Chevron where they live.

2. The withdrawal from 97% of Chevron by Pipi Netanyoyo was not because of what Dr. Goldstein did to the Arab Nazi terrorists. On the contrary, Dr. Goldstein's action prevented even more retreats from Judea and Samaria. In response to Dr. Goldstein, the Arab Nazis suspended the negotiations and there was a wave of Arab riots and Arab violence that made implementation of the Oslo surrender agreement much more difficult. The Israeli retreats that had already been agreed upon were delayed for long periods of time because of the Arab violence that followed Dr. Goldstein's action. Dr. Goldstein prevented major portions of Judea and Samaria from being handed over to the Arab Nazis.

Immediately After Goldstein's killings, The Israeli Government seriously considered to deport all Jews from Hebron. This is what I was referring to. Of course I know that it was Netanyahu who withrew from 97% of Hebron.

3. You say that the IDF warnings about an imminent massacre are unproven. If you research it, you will find that there are witnesses who were friends and relatives of Dr. Goldstein, who attest to the fact that there was an imminent IDF warning of a massacre of Jews. So it is not unproven. Witnesses are proof, unless you believe that the friends and relatives of Dr. Goldstein are lying. If you knew these people, you would know that they are not liars.

I think the whole area would be under curfew had the IDF been a aware of an imminent terrorist attack. I am sure that the friends of Dr. Goldteins are good people but I don't think they are incapable of lying or modifying the truth to defend their friend's heritage and reputation.

4. Yitzchak Rabin and Syrian Nazi dictator Hafez al Assad were very close to an agreement on the Israeli surrender of the entire Golan Heights. If such an agreement would have been signed by Rabin and Assad, it would have been implemented even if Netanyahu had won the election in 1996. Because Netanyoyo said that he would carry out all signed agreements such as Oslo. So Israel would have surrendered the Golan Heights to Nazi Syria - an act of suicidal insanity. Yigal Amir stopped Rabin just before a final agreement was concluded.

That is a valid reason I agree. I recall that the negotiations with Syria had been halted and were supposed to resume after the elections. I also think that because the assassination severely crippled the ability of the Israeli right to fight suicidal agreements. Basically any form of effective protest was made illegal in Israel due to this incident.

I am not advocating that Jews go out and kill Arabs or that they assassinate self-hating Jewish leaders. I am a law-abiding, moderate, enlightened civil rights leader. And I do not want to be banned from running for the Knesset.

But I will never condemn Jews who give their lives to save the Jewish people. And if I ever become Prime Minister, I will honor all Jewish heroes, including the "politically incorrect" ones.

Fair enough.