Author Topic: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl  (Read 6045 times)

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Offline Rubystars

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2008, 09:23:38 PM »
This lady has a great sense of humor and deserved to live too (thalidomide survivor):


I think abortion is horrible and murders great people.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2008, 09:27:28 PM »
I think abortion is horrible and murders great people.
And I know Chaim agrees.

Offline Irish-Irony

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2008, 09:41:44 PM »
 :dance: Yeah he is like, "I still got it going on."  :dance:
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Offline Rubystars

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2008, 09:43:38 PM »
I think abortion is horrible and murders great people.
And I know Chaim agrees.

I'm glad you're against abortion too C.F.! The most vulnerable babies are the ones with disabilities and I'm happy we agree on protecting them. I don't like many of those prenatal tests that women get. I don't think all of them are necessary and a lot of times they will lead to innocent babies being aborted. Thank God for women like Sarah Palin who choose life.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2008, 10:02:02 PM »
You are probably against abortion, but that is always one way of dealing with deformed babys/foetuses.

I believe they should be allowed to be born and live the best life they can. I'm very upset that people abort babies for deformities.

JewishAmericanPatriot all I can say is Thank G-d you were born. I'm glad you're here!

You have a zest for life, but not everybody does.  If a baby has a deformity, it's likely that they won't enjoy life.. For one thing, when they grow up they would have endless sexual frustration, as well as endless failures. That happens to alot of people anyway but for them it'd be even worse.

Have you see the film "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" with Steve Martin and Michael Caine.   They played 2 pranksters.  I saw it a few times, and one time it turned out to be uncut, it showed Steve Martin playing a mentally retarded child, fully clothed, but hanging onto somebody and humping them.. The other person was very uncomfortable and tried to pull him off.
I saw it thinking "gosh, that's probably what some of these kids do"..

Then I was at a wedding waiting to shake the groom's hand, and ahead of me was a mentally retarded person.. He ran up to the groom, said he wanted to dance with him and make him happy, then he pushed his groin against the groom a few times.. "the groom said 'I dont think so' , and held him back"..

It's a fairly grim life, and he'd have to have some really great competent parents or it would be even worse.

Now, looking from a purely ethical point of view, I think aborting the foetus would have been preferable..  Looking at it from an ethical-religious point of view, there are objections.. the point of view of we are all G-d's children  and murder is wrong, then you can't.   Or judaism's legal view, one can only abort if the foetus endangers the life of the mother.   But talking pure personal preferences.. I am not so against it..

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2008, 10:23:55 PM »
You have a zest for life, but not everybody does.  If a baby has a deformity, it's likely that they won't enjoy life.. For one thing, when they grow up they would have endless sexual frustration, as well as endless failures. That happens to alot of people anyway but for them it'd be even worse.
Please somebody drag this schmuck off to an insane asylum.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2008, 10:27:00 PM »
You have a zest for life, but not everybody does.  If a baby has a deformity, it's likely that they won't enjoy life.. For one thing, when they grow up they would have endless sexual frustration, as well as endless failures. That happens to alot of people anyway but for them it'd be even worse.
Please somebody drag this schmuck off to an insane asylum.

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Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2008, 10:28:20 PM »
You have a zest for life, but not everybody does.  If a baby has a deformity, it's likely that they won't enjoy life.. For one thing, when they grow up they would have endless sexual frustration, as well as endless failures. That happens to alot of people anyway but for them it'd be even worse.
Please somebody drag this schmuck off to an insane asylum.

I agree with Chaimfan that children are not to be aborted unless they are shvartza children. No jewish child should be aborted unless the mother is in danger. I don't believe abortion is permitted according to the torah.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2008, 10:30:54 PM »
<snip> No jewish child should be aborted unless the mother is in danger. I don't believe abortion is permitted according to the torah.

It is, if the mother is in danger ;-)

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2008, 10:37:46 PM »
<snip> No jewish child should be aborted unless the mother is in danger. I don't believe abortion is permitted according to the torah.

It is, if the mother is in danger ;-)

Do you support abortion if the mother is not in danger?
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2008, 10:40:08 PM »
<snip> No jewish child should be aborted unless the mother is in danger. I don't believe abortion is permitted according to the torah.

It is, if the mother is in danger ;-)

Do you support abortion if the mother is not in danger?

I can't support that, it's against judaism

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2008, 10:42:05 PM »
Ok, I just wanted to clarify that.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2008, 10:50:03 PM »
You have a zest for life, but not everybody does.  If a baby has a deformity, it's likely that they won't enjoy life.. For one thing, when they grow up they would have endless sexual frustration, as well as endless failures. That happens to alot of people anyway but for them it'd be even worse.

Well as you mentioned, life isn't exactly a bed of roses for anyone. However I think if God didn't want disabled people to live then he wouldn't have gifted them with life at all. Is it right for you to take someone's life away after God granted it? Some people have big ears, some people have ugly faces, and some people have other problems, but we're not all going to be the same as one another and whether physical or otherwise, everyone is going to have some kind of issue that they must face.

Moses/Moshe himself had a speech impediment. Was it right for him to be rescued from the basket?

Quote
Have you see the film "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" with Steve Martin and Michael Caine.   They played 2 pranksters.  I saw it a few times, and one time it turned out to be uncut, it showed Steve Martin playing a mentally retarded child, fully clothed, but hanging onto somebody and humping them.. The other person was very uncomfortable and tried to pull him off.
I saw it thinking "gosh, that's probably what some of these kids do"..

Then I was at a wedding waiting to shake the groom's hand, and ahead of me was a mentally retarded person.. He ran up to the groom, said he wanted to dance with him and make him happy, then he pushed his groin against the groom a few times.. "the groom said 'I dont think so' , and held him back"..

It's a fairly grim life, and he'd have to have some really great competent parents or it would be even worse.

I'm sure that nobody hated those people for doing that or at least they shouldn't. They should have understood that they don't function the same as other people and they made allowances for that behavior to a degree and not gotten angry, even though I can see how it could be embarassing and it did need to be stopped.

Quote
Now, looking from a purely ethical point of view, I think aborting the foetus would have been preferable..  Looking at it from an ethical-religious point of view, there are objections.. the point of view of we are all G-d's children  and murder is wrong, then you can't.   Or judaism's legal view, one can only abort if the foetus endangers the life of the mother.   But talking pure personal preferences.. I am not so against it..

There are a lot of disabled people who do live fulfilling lives though. Even some people with some really bad deformities have gone on to live successful and happy lives. Look at Matt Fraser, for example. he does comedy, dances, sings, and has a great life even though thalidomide ruined his arms and hands. I've seen a lot of people with deformities or disabilities while working with the public, and they seem to be going about their lives just like anyone else does, with hard times and good times both.

Life isn't perfect for anyone to begin with, so I don't think we should balk at helping babies through some added challenges in life.

Have you heard of the tri-athlete with Harlequin Icthyosis? I wouldn't recommend looking that disease up because the images of the babies with it are truly horrific. They come out with their skin all cracked and looking almost non-human, but if they can survive with doctor's help, they can go on to be like Ryan Gonzalez, who competes in sports events along with so-called normal people.

Here's a great article about him. He looks a little different but other than his skin condition, he's healthy and living a full life:
http://www.10news.com/health/3919722/detail.html

Also please watch the video of the Hensel twins I posted.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2008, 10:54:52 PM »
You have a zest for life, but not everybody does.  If a baby has a deformity, it's likely that they won't enjoy life.. For one thing, when they grow up they would have endless sexual frustration, as well as endless failures. That happens to alot of people anyway but for them it'd be even worse.
Please somebody drag this schmuck off to an insane asylum.

I agree with Chaimfan that children are not to be aborted unless they are shvartza children. No jewish child should be aborted unless the mother is in danger. I don't believe abortion is permitted according to the torah.

Very sad to read this, just on a Chanuka night. Abortion to deformed children is a crime, a murder!!!! Why don't murdering all disabled adults as well, then? The only situation when abortion may be considered is when the mother's life is in danger and there is no other way to save her.
DWI: do you suggest that blacks should be aborted? are you supporting a genocide?

To the original topic, I don't care about the theology of that Christian family. If they say that a Christian who does not have a big family is damned to hell...anyway most other Christians also say that if you are not Christian you are damned to hell....
We, Noahides also say that if someone is an idolator, he is condmned and that may hurt Hindus, but we won't change our faith just not to hurt others.
BTW it's correct under Noahide Laws to avoid contraceptives if possible, and some contraceptives are definitely wrong according to many scholars.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2008, 11:14:32 PM »
You have a zest for life, but not everybody does.  If a baby has a deformity, it's likely that they won't enjoy life.. For one thing, when they grow up they would have endless sexual frustration, as well as endless failures. That happens to alot of people anyway but for them it'd be even worse.

Well as you mentioned, life isn't exactly a bed of roses for anyone. However I think if G-d didn't want disabled people to live then he wouldn't have gifted them with life at all. Is it right for you to take someone's life away after G-d granted it? Some people have big ears, some people have ugly faces, and some people have other problems, but we're not all going to be the same as one another and whether physical or otherwise, everyone is going to have some kind of issue that they must face.

Moses/Moshe himself had a speech impediment. Was it right for him to be rescued from the basket?


Chances are though, that if they are as important as moses,  G-d is going to save them for them to do the task he set them, just as he did Moses.


Putting aside the Moses thought.  And considering the seriously retarded kid with, the humping is typical of a kid in that condition.  Even with a loving parent they don't go on to live a fulfilling life. 

You give some examples of ones that have lived fulfilling lives. These are people with their brain intact.  A good mind can overcome tremendous obstacles.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2008, 11:23:02 PM »
You make a great point about people with messed up bodies but intact minds having a better chance of leading a fulfilling life.
I think it's better to be physically disabled than mentally disabled. Most people I speak to are more frightened of Alzheimers than they are of losing mobility when they get older.

However we don't really know what it's like for the person with a mental deficiency to live as they live. Maybe he thought it was a funny joke that other people just didn't get. I've seen the kids with Downs come into my workplace to do busywork sometimes and they do smile and laugh but of course they get bored easily because they have a short attention span. I helped out in a summer school once with lots of mentally disabled kids and most of them seemed like they were happy most of the time, they just weren't "normal" to other people. They've never known any other way of being, so like the Hensel twins adapted to working in unison to move their shared body, these kids adapt to the minds they're given, and function with what they have available to them. Just because we don't think we would be happy like that, doesn't mean they can't be.

I think it's our duty as fellow human beings to show them compassion and help them, and maybe it's their duty to teach us to have patience and other virtues. Do you believe every life has a purpose?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2008, 12:56:09 AM »
I agree with Chaimfan that children are not to be aborted unless they are shvartza children. No jewish child should be aborted unless the mother is in danger. I don't believe abortion is permitted according to the torah.
I don't think black children should be aborted, because they are still innocent at that stage. The fact that blacks have more abortions than any other race only proves what a despicable, perverse, low-life culture they have and how evil they all are.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2008, 01:37:35 AM »
I agree with Chaimfan that children are not to be aborted unless they are shvartza children. No jewish child should be aborted unless the mother is in danger. I don't believe abortion is permitted according to the torah.
I don't think black children should be aborted, because they are still innocent at that stage. The fact that blacks have more abortions than any other race only proves what a despicable, perverse, low-life culture they have and how evil they all are.

I don't agree with abortion of any still-innocent baby either C.F. I think that blacks should be born in Africa though if they're not willing to stop using the welfare system to live on or affirmative action to get a good job.

Offline Cato

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2008, 04:06:23 PM »
Can even a Hamish couple produce 18 children and feed, clothe, properly educate them, and give them adequate medical care, all without using Welfare? Just a question. Also, how about individual parental love and guidance? It all looks to me like a relic from an earlier age. We've got three children, and that keeps us busy enough.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2008, 05:56:17 PM »
Can even a Hamish couple produce 18 children and feed, clothe, properly educate them, and give them adequate medical care, all without using Welfare? Just a question.

Some could, but why would they do that when they can so easily leach from the system?

Quote
Also, how about individual parental love and guidance? It all looks to me like a relic from an earlier age. We've got three children, and that keeps us busy enough.

I'm glad you have three children, but I think that it's ok for people to have more, and each baby will still be a unique son or daughter and will be loved as a distinct person, especially in a family like the Duggars where they take a real interest in molding their children in the right way to be moral people.

Offline briann

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2008, 06:16:01 PM »
I agree with Chaimfan that children are not to be aborted unless they are shvartza children. No jewish child should be aborted unless the mother is in danger. I don't believe abortion is permitted according to the torah.
I don't think black children should be aborted, because they are still innocent at that stage. The fact that blacks have more abortions than any other race only proves what a despicable, perverse, low-life culture they have and how evil they all are.

Believe it or not.... a large percentage of indigenous cultures performed abortions.  They had all sorts of strange rationale...  such as they believed the unborn would become a devil... or something like that.....   

Abortion is in many ways.... out culture reverting to this type of barbarism.


Offline JewishAmericanPatriot

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2008, 09:26:59 PM »
You are probably against abortion, but that is always one way of dealing with deformed babys/foetuses.

I believe they should be allowed to be born and live the best life they can. I'm very upset that people abort babies for deformities.

JewishAmericanPatriot all I can say is Thank G-d you were born. I'm glad you're here!

I am too! :) If abortion had been legal in the late 1950s, I would most likely not be here (back then the only kind of abortion allowed was "therapeutic abortion", done to save the life of the mother. Since an abortion would not be to save my mother's life but to prevent her from possibly having a stillborn baby due to Rh disease, she was not able to get one.)
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Offline JewishAmericanPatriot

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2008, 09:35:09 PM »
I think abortion is horrible and murders great people.
And I know Chaim agrees.

I'm glad you're against abortion too C.F.! The most vulnerable babies are the ones with disabilities and I'm happy we agree on protecting them. I don't like many of those prenatal tests that women get. I don't think all of them are necessary and a lot of times they will lead to innocent babies being aborted. Thank G-d for women like Sarah Palin who choose life.

You know, about 12 years ago I was a victim of severe cyberstalking by a woman who had aborted a baby when she was SEVEN months preg because the baby had Trisomy 13. I had lost four babies (they were stillborn) in between my youngest and oldest daughters, and I formed a support group online for other women who had lost babies too.

This woman wanted to join, and I had to explain that our group was for women who wanted their babies and lost them through no fault of our own...I felt that the other women in the group would be very offended if I let her join, considering she paid to have her baby aborted because the baby was "not perfect".

Well! She went crazy on me, researched me, called my home, sent me hate mail at my home address, called relatives (!), tried to get my website taken down, the works! Its one reason why I'm extremely privacy-conscious now.

I used to have a website educating people against abortion esp. for birth defects....and when I was preg with my oldest daughter, my beliefs were put to the test. Tests indicated she might have spina bifida, and an ultrasound seemed to confirm it. My dr wanted me to have an amniocentesis, but I told him I would not do it because I wouldn't do anything with the information anyway.

THAT was a MAIN reason why I absolutely fell in love with Sarah Palin when McCain chose her! The very first thing I heard about her was that she had a baby with Down Syndrome, and that she told her dr the *very same thing I told mine* (i.e., I won't do anything with the information).
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Offline Rubystars

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2008, 09:40:46 PM »
Was your baby healthy or did she have a health problem? Also I think it's great that you had that support group. I hope if you had to stop that one day you can have it again.

Offline MasterWolf1

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Re: Arkansas family welcomes 18th child, a girl
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2008, 03:36:28 AM »
Maybe they should ask santa for a box of condoms.


That is uncalled for, we promote the idea of righteous couples to have as many children as they can get, and this couple are blessed, they are not sponges on the welfare line, so bless them.  They sound like they got a great family.  I wish more Infidels would follow in those footsteps.
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