Author Topic: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing  (Read 1989 times)

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Offline SavetheWest

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Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« on: January 01, 2009, 06:51:27 PM »
I'm starting to think that getting rid of Hamas could be a real disaster.  Hamas is the worst thing for the so called "Peace Process."  When Hamas was voted in, the smart Arabs, the Bush Administration, Peace Now, the Europeans, and all the peace hippie groups were devastated.  It's hard to tell the Israelis that they don't want peace when the other side refuses to recognize Israel and calls for the deaths of Jews. 
Of course it's good that Hamas members are being killed but it may be for evil reasons.  All the Israeli left wing wanted Fatah to win because they are for peace agreements.  What the left is too stupid to realize is that Fatah has the same motives of Hamas but they are smarter.  They know if you tell Carter and Peace Now what they want to hear, that they will give you their first born children to suck up to them.  The left may even know of the intentions of Fatah but they don't care or don't think it will matter. 
     If they can destroy Hamas' leadership then Fatah or another group that's willing to do deals may take its place.  This is what the left, Condi Rice, Carter, Peace Now and others want to happen.  The goal of all the American and European peacemakers is to make history and create a legacy for themselves just as Clinton touts the Northern Ireland peace agreement as his. 
We all know the goals of the Arabs but they have different strategies and Fatah understands how to really get things done as do the Saudis who are also involved in the agreements. 
Israel's goal right now is to eliminate Hamas so the Arabs have no one to turn to but Fatah or the other so called Arab peacemakers.  They think if Hamas is finished that the Arabs will just run to Fatah. 
The thing is they have not estimated how stupid the Arab people are and they will not turn to Fatah because they see Hamas as Arab heroes and any other Arabs as traitors.
Bottom line is, as long as Hamas exists, then the suicidal peace agreements do not exist.  If the Arabs turn to Fatah and say give peace a chance, say goodbye to Judea and Samaria unless you have smart people like Chaim in Israeli office.

Online angryChineseKahanist

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2009, 07:17:16 PM »
Absolutely true.
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline q_q_

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2009, 07:38:19 PM »
I'm starting to think that getting rid of Hamas could be a real disaster.  <snip>

Don't worry. There will -always- be the militant and less militant.

Infact by trying to get fatah into power you are guaranteeing that the arabs will be fighting amongst themselves, because Hamas won't accept a submissive position!

And furthermore, arabs are stubborn.. In the past when we have the less militant ("arafat") that for years the isreli government "thought" was for peace,  arab stubbornless saved israel. Beause  they would only accept 100%
Any agreement that tried to reach an end point , the arabs would not accept.   And if they did they'd e war which is inevitable anyway, and sooner is better than later. 

Israel's still alot more powerful than the arabs, that's why they have played soft for ages. and will still play soft unfortunately.
Iran is their real worry but it's not threatening over this specifically.

Offline SavetheWest

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2009, 07:46:54 PM »
I'm starting to think that getting rid of Hamas could be a real disaster.  <snip>

Don't worry. There will -always- be the militant and less militant.

Infact by trying to get fatah into power you are guaranteeing that the arabs will be fighting amongst themselves, because Hamas won't accept a submissive position!

And furthermore, arabs are stubborn.. In the past when we have the less militant ("arafat") that for years the isreli government "thought" was for peace,  arab stubbornless saved israel. Beause  they would only accept 100%
Any agreement that tried to reach an end point , the arabs would not accept.   And if they did they'd e war which is inevitable anyway, and sooner is better than later. 

Israel's still alot more powerful than the arabs, that's why they have played soft for ages. and will still play soft unfortunately.
Iran is their real worry but it's not threatening over this specifically.

That's a good point.  Maybe having Fatah would be good because like Arafat, they will always worry about placating the Hamas elements.  Still, their elements came within 2 seconds of getting a huge deal from Israel and getting 95% of Judea and Samaria.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2009, 09:24:49 PM »
What do they want more  - - - to kill us or take our land?

Offline q_q_

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2009, 09:31:53 PM »
What do they want more  - - - to kill us or take our land?

I doubt they differentiate.

Though there was a statements in 2002 where a terrorist said that it's good that jews are in israel because they are all in one place and easier to kill.

I guess they want to kill us more, because then they would think they would get our land.

A reality though is that if G-d forbid they did nuke israel, then, as daniel ben avraham said on A7 in 2002. Israel would make sure that the whole middle east would glow green. And that's why they wouldn't want to.

Netanyahu is concerned about iran since it's suicidal.. so a deterrent may not work.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2009, 10:48:53 PM »
I think Muslims want to kill above anything else. Their whole religion is about death, murder, and perversion.

Offline Sparky

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2009, 01:50:03 AM »
First and formost, Israel has to stop the rockets from being launched out of Gaza.  They have no choice.  They'll just have to deal with whatever consequences, good or bad, that occur afterwards. 

Offline SavetheWest

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2009, 05:10:11 AM »
First and formost, Israel has to stop the rockets from being launched out of Gaza.  They have no choice.  They'll just have to deal with whatever consequences, good or bad, that occur afterwards. 

Yes. That is an intolerable situation.  No country would put up with one of those rockets intentionally hitting their land.  The biggest fraudulent critics of Israel are the countries that have independence movements that are not 1/1000000 as cruel and violent as the Muslims.  Can you imagine what Italy would do if Malta started shelling them? Or if Denmark started shelling Germany?

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2009, 08:35:07 AM »
Bush seemed to defend Israel when he said "Hamas has showed their true colors."

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2009, 08:55:58 AM »
I disagree..

The way I look at it is to first save Jewish lives in IMMEDIATE danger.  Hamas poses an immediate risk to lives of many Jews in Israel.  By not destroying them or fighting them head on, they will accumulate weapons from Iran and other Nazi states to kill more Jewish lives. 

Fatah is also a danger, but not an immediate threat.  Best to get rid of Hamas first and for misguided jews to realize the true intention of Fatah over time.
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Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2009, 02:06:15 PM »
Muslems never realy cared about Philitinia, in period between defeat of crusaders and arrival of zionists it was  backwater piece of land, barren and underdeveloped.  While I agree with Dan on danger of Hamas Olmert is ordering this operation only to bolster his party Kadima chances in the elections. Only results I predict will be more pictures of "poor mistrited Arabs" in Israeli hating MSMs.
Israel will need strong leaders like Chaim to keep the western "friends" at bay on one hand and on the other deal with Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran etc. 
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline SavetheWest

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2009, 03:51:24 PM »
I disagree..

The way I look at it is to first save Jewish lives in IMMEDIATE danger.  Hamas poses an immediate risk to lives of many Jews in Israel.  By not destroying them or fighting them head on, they will accumulate weapons from Iran and other Nazi states to kill more Jewish lives. 

Fatah is also a danger, but not an immediate threat.  Best to get rid of Hamas first and for misguided jews to realize the true intention of Fatah over time.

If that's true and they are worried about Jewish lives, why did they wait so long?  Even some leftist groups in Israel were asking why the government waited so long. It may be that Ehud Barack (who had Clinton's team get him elected to prime minister) had talks with his old Clinton contacts in the Obama administration. They said they would be silent because this could help clear the way for Obama to get a peace deal brokered.

Offline SavetheWest

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Re: Destroying Hamas may not be a good thing
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2009, 03:53:59 PM »
I think Muslims want to kill above anything else. Their whole religion is about death, murder, and perversion.

You're right but some of them understand that up front violence is not the best path for their goals.  The Saudis are seeing that they can win by buying up western assests, and sending Muslim immigrants to western countries.