Book recommendation: Why Faith Matters

[zachor_ve_kavod]

I haven't finished it yet, but I think that "Why Faith Matters" by Rabbi David Wolpe is an excellent book. I'd rather not give a lengthy description, since I haven't finished it yet, but I will say this:  Rabbi Wolpe sees faith as a vehicle to become close with G-d.  It does not dismiss the doubts of atheists, rather it challenges them.  This is a courageous, well written work, and I would recommend it to anyone.

[q_q_]

I haven't finished it yet, but I think that "Why Faith Matters" by Rabbi David Wolpe is an excellent book. I'd rather not give a lengthy description, since I haven't finished it yet, but I will say this:  Rabbi Wolpe sees faith as a vehicle to become close with G-d.  It does not dismiss the doubts of atheists, rather it challenges them.  This is a courageous, well written work, and I would recommend it to anyone.

He is not orthodox.  He is a complete wolly.  Not logical.

You can see him on youtube arguing with sam harris.  Like any reform minister, he would be one of these people who,

Believes in belief in G-d..  But doesn't actually believe in G-d.

He certainly doesn't believe in a personal G-d.. More like a star wars  type G-d , like a force, if anything.
Some reform don't believe in G-d at all. And he'd no doubt agree that you don't have to.
I think he actually said in his debate with sam haris, that judaism is not a religion. it's a people.

(of course, rabbi kahen said it best , see kahane bio vol 1, if you're a fan. He said Jews are a Religio-Nation)

[zachor_ve_kavod]

I haven't finished it yet, but I think that "Why Faith Matters" by Rabbi David Wolpe is an excellent book. I'd rather not give a lengthy description, since I haven't finished it yet, but I will say this:  Rabbi Wolpe sees faith as a vehicle to become close with G-d.  It does not dismiss the doubts of atheists, rather it challenges them.  This is a courageous, well written work, and I would recommend it to anyone.

He is not orthodox.  He is a complete wolly.  Not logical.

You can see him on youtube arguing with sam harris.  Like any reform minister, he would be one of these people who,

Believes in belief in G-d..  But doesn't actually believe in G-d.

He certainly doesn't believe in a personal G-d.. More like a star wars  type G-d , like a force, if anything.
Some reform don't believe in G-d at all. And he'd no doubt agree that you don't have to.
I think he actually said in his debate with sam haris, that judaism is not a religion. it's a people.

(of course, rabbi kahen said it best , see kahane bio vol 1, if you're a fan. He said Jews are a Religio-Nation)

Where would I find Kahane bio vol 1?

[q_q_]

<snip>
Where would I find Kahane bio vol 1?

Urim Publications

here

http://www.urimpublications.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=UP&Product_Code=Kahane

I think you'd get a better education about kahane from listening to his audio, if you haven't already..  http://www.toojewish.com/kahane/

and whatever video is available on youtube or google video.
the one of them (talk at camp sdei chemed) is under keyword kahana instead of kahane.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

<snip>
Where would I find Kahane bio vol 1?

Urim Publications

here

http://www.urimpublications.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=UP&Product_Code=Kahane

I think you'd get a better education about kahane from listening to his audio, if you haven't already..  http://www.toojewish.com/kahane/

and whatever video is available on youtube or google video.
the one of them (talk at camp sdei chemed) is under keyword kahana instead of kahane.

Thank you.  I know less about Rabbi Kahane's Hallacic interpretations (though I'm not entirely uninformed about this) than his political beliefs.  I have seen that talk at camp sdei chemed.  But I will check out the links you have provided me.

[muman613]

On this I agree with q_q_ because reform 'rabbis' really should not be listened to. I accidentally bought two books at a Borders 'Jewish' section and regretted it. I now buy all my Jewish books from either Artscroll or Feldheims. I just got a 'shipment' of books weighing 17 pounds and just unpacked it. I am thinking of starting a Jewish book review section on my blog.

Here are the books I will be reading:

* Concise Book of Mitzvoth
* The Siddur Speaks to Us
* Living Kabbalah
* Parasha Parables : 3 Vol Edition
* Guidelines : Channukah
* Nefesh Shimon : Shabbos Kodesh
* Treasure for Life : Vol 2
* Halachic World, Vol 2

Now these are Jewish books. The last set of books I got from Feldheim included the previous discussed basic Jewish faith building books Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, Convincing Evidence of the Truths of Judaism by Rabbi Shmuel Waldman and Permission to Receive, Four Rational Approaches to the Torahs Divine Origin by Lawrence Kelemen. These books both use rational and logical approaches to coming to emmunah {faith/belief} and Bitachon {Trust}.

http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=0

PS: The books I bought from Borders were by a new-age Kabbalah Rabbi of the LA Kabbalah center {yuck!} and some 'rabbi' who goes about comparing Judaism to Buddhism and other lovable religions {needless to say I gave it to a hippie friend}.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

On this I agree with q_q_ because reform 'rabbis' really should not be listened to. I accidentally bought two books at a Borders 'Jewish' section and regretted it. I now buy all my Jewish books from either Artscroll or Feldheims. I just got a 'shipment' of books weighing 17 pounds and just unpacked it. I am thinking of starting a Jewish book review section on my blog.

Here are the books I will be reading:

* Concise Book of Mitzvoth
* The Siddur Speaks to Us
* Living Kabbalah
* Parasha Parables : 3 Vol Edition
* Guidelines : Channukah
* Nefesh Shimon : Shabbos Kodesh
* Treasure for Life : Vol 2
* Halachic World, Vol 2

Now these are Jewish books. The last set of books I got from Feldheim included the previous discussed basic Jewish faith building books Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, Convincing Evidence of the Truths of Judaism by Rabbi Shmuel Waldman and Permission to Receive, Four Rational Approaches to the Torahs Divine Origin by Lawrence Kelemen. These books both use rational and logical approaches to coming to emmunah {faith/belief} and Bitachon {Trust}.

http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=0

PS: The books I bought from Borders were by a new-age Kabbalah Rabbi of the LA Kabbalah center {yuck!} and some 'rabbi' who goes about comparing Judaism to Buddhism and other lovable religions {needless to say I gave it to a hippie friend}.

Thanks Muman!  I've bookmarked the site and asked them if they deliver to Canada.  I've also written down the books you mentioned.

[q_q_]

On this I agree with q_q_ because reform 'rabbis' really should not be listened to. I accidentally bought two books at a Borders 'Jewish' section and regretted it. I now buy all my Jewish books from either Artscroll or Feldheims. I just got a 'shipment' of books weighing 17 pounds and just unpacked it. I am thinking of starting a Jewish book review section on my blog.

Here are the books I will be reading:

* Concise Book of Mitzvoth
* The Siddur Speaks to Us
* Living Kabbalah
* Parasha Parables : 3 Vol Edition
* Guidelines : Channukah
* Nefesh Shimon : Shabbos Kodesh
* Treasure for Life : Vol 2
* Halachic World, Vol 2

Now these are Jewish books. The last set of books I got from Feldheim included the previous discussed basic Jewish faith building books Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, Convincing Evidence of the Truths of Judaism by Rabbi Shmuel Waldman and Permission to Receive, Four Rational Approaches to the Torahs Divine Origin by Lawrence Kelemen. These books both use rational and logical approaches to coming to emmunah {faith/belief} and Bitachon {Trust}.

http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=0

below is a personal argument.. personal doubts you could say, not something i'm suggesting for others.

rabbi kahane had incredible -Trust- in G-d, as in, whatever the situation, G-d is good. And look what happened to him..

for all you know, you could have faith that everything is for the best, and then by G-d's definition, that could mean you're killed. Maybe in rabbi kahane's case because we didn't deserve him, as in, we were warned of the arab threat for 40 years..

I would say that I lack emunah in that i'm not so willing to go suicidal or promote something that is suicidal. I do worry that aliyah is suicidal. Obviously if people do it, they are fulfilling a mitzva of living in israel, and you have to respect that. I do prefer it if jews are spread out, I am not such a believer in all jews living in israel, or even all religious jews living in israel.  Israel is not a safe place.

note- i've heard emunah defined as trust. as in, reliance. faith+action. .

[muman613]

<snip>

below is a personal argument.. personal doubts you could say, not something i'm suggesting for others.

rabbi kahane had emunah and look what happened to him..

for all you know, you could have faith that everything is for the best, and then by G-d's definition, that could mean you're killed. Maybe in rabbi kahane's case because we didn't deserve him, as in, we were warned of the arab threat for 40 years..

I would say that I lack emunah in that i'm not so willing to go suicidal or promote something that is suicidal. I do worry that aliyah is suicidal. Obviously if people do it, they are fulfilling a mitzva of living in israel, and you have to respect that. I do prefer it if jews are spread out, I am not such a believer in all jews living in israel, or even all religious jews living in israel.  Israel is not a safe place.

Wow q_q_ that is very deep and Im sure a difficult admission. I think I share some of your fears and worries but I will not prevent Jews from making Aliyah as I too have a dream of making the move at some time. I know that nothing I can say will change your opinion because it is based on your perception and understanding.

I can tell you about faith and life and death. I don't know why some peoples lives are cut short while others are allowed to have long and unfaithful lives. I am sure you know the Jewish approach to this question so I will not repeat it. I have come to accept that what occurs for good or for bad is ultimately beyond my control. I would like my efforts to make it safer in Israel for future generations of Jews.

Faith doesn't guarantee a long life any more than a unfaithful life guarantee a short one. Life and death are concepts which denote a finite existence.  My faith tells me that there is more to the Olam than we can perceive in the physical existence.

I hope that by reading these books I gain more wisdom which will benefit me in this world but will ultimate assist me in Olama Haba.

PS: I believe it is a different word for trust called Bitachon... Emmunah is more faith and belief...

http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/1393/jewish/Bitachon.htm

[q_q_]

well, if recommending books.. An amazing one is

Handbook of jewish thought by rabbi aryeh kaplan. It's 2 volumes, the first volume is more interesting, but it's unbelievable..

If you could just see a page, your eyes will pop out of your head. The scholarship is very impressive.

[q_q_]

<snip>
PS: I believe it is a different word for trust called Bitachon... Emmunah is more faith and belief...
<snip>

You said that earlier.
"These books both use rational and logical approaches to coming to emmunah {faith/belief} and Bitachon {Trust}."

that is why I said about emunah.. the definition of emunah as Trust I heard from rabbi dovid gottlieb of ohr (he's a very logical man), in his lecture series on emunah.. I listened to the first few but it's 15 parts. 
http://www.dovidgottlieb.com/Rabbi_Gottlieb_Tapes.html

If I had my tenach concordance software to hand I could find the definition. That's the proper way.

[muman613]

well, if recommending books.. An amazing one is

Handbook of jewish thought by rabbi aryeh kaplan. It's 2 volumes, the first volume is more interesting, but it's unbelievable..

If you could just see a page, your eyes will pop out of your head. The scholarship is very impressive.

Yes I agree on that I have Aryeh Kaplans Anthology Vol I & II {Im not sure if that is what you are referring to}. It is a compilation of many of his papers and short books.

I am looking at Anthology I & II now, they contain the following books:

Anthology I
* Maimonides Principles : The fundamentals of Jewish Faith
* The Real Messiah? : A Jewish response to Missionaries
* The Infinite Light : A Book about G-d
* If You Were G-D: Three works by Aryeh Kaplan

Anthology II
* Waters of Eden : The Mystery of the Mikvah
* TzitTzith : A Thread of Light
* Tefillin
* Jerusalem : The Eye of the Universe
* Sabbath : Day of Eternity

They are very excellently written and certainly recommended...

 

[muman613]

<snip>
PS: I believe it is a different word for trust called Bitachon... Emmunah is more faith and belief...
<snip>

You said that earlier.
"These books both use rational and logical approaches to coming to emmunah {faith/belief} and Bitachon {Trust}."

that is why I said about emunah.. the definition of emunah as Trust I heard from rabbi dovid gottlieb of ohr (he's a very logical man), in his lecture series on emunah.. I listened to the first few but it's 15 parts. 
http://www.dovidgottlieb.com/Rabbi_Gottlieb_Tapes.html

If I had my tenach concordance software to hand I could find the definition. That's the proper way.

Ok I will check it out because most discussions I have heard have always mentioned Bitachon as a seperate entity beside Emmunah. I think there are discussions of Emmunah Vs Bitachon even... Let me see if I can find a reference to this.

Here is Rabbi Schafiers 'The Schmuz' which discusses the difference between Emunah and Bitachon.

#18 The Difference Between Emunah and Bitachon – Four Levels To Emunah
http://www.theshmuz.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Shmuz_Number_18

Here is the printed material from Rabbi Shafier:

http://www.theshmuz.com/Parashat-Shemos.html

The difference between Emunah and Bitachon
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The answer to this question seems to lie in the basic distinction between Emunah and Bitachon. The Rambam defines Emunah as the knowledge that HASHEM created and continues to run all of creation. Simply put, nothing can exist and no activity can occur without HASHEM.

Bitachon, however, is a quite different. The Chovos Halevovos defines Bitachon as trusting in HASHEM. It is a sense of relying on HASHEM to watch over and protect us, as if to say, “I take my heavy burden and place it on HASHEM.” While I am responsible to be proactive, I am not in charge of the outcome, and I am not the determinant of the results. I rely on HASHEM to care for me.

Emunah is a state of understanding; Bitachon is a state of trust. Emunah means knowing that HASHEM is involved in every activity on the planet; Bitachon means trusting in HASHEM in this situation.

A person can have Emunah and not Bitachon

A person can have Emunah and not Bitachon. Pharaoh was a classic example. When threatened with Jewish overpopulation in the land, his solution was to throw the baby boys into the Nile. The Medrash explains that this wasn’t a flippant reaction -- it was highly calculated. HASHEM promised Noach that He wouldn’t bring another flood. HASHEM pays back “measure for measure”. Therefore, Pharaoh determined that HASHEM would want to pay back the Egyptians for killing the babies by bringing a flood. Since that couldn’t be, because of HASHEM’s promise to Noach, he felt protected from HASHEM’s wrath.

Clearly, Pharaoh understood the power of HASHEM. He realized that HASHEM watches over the world. He also understood that HASHEM acts with justice. Pharaoh had no problem with Emunah, but he sure didn’t trust in HASHEM – he rebelled. He had Emunah, but no Bitachon.

Growing in Emunah

Both Emunah and Bitachon are based on relating to the world in a deeper manner. Emunah is the understanding that HASHEM is involved in more than just the big picture issues - life and death, war, famine; disease… HASHEM is involved in the minutia of my daily life. That HASHEM is there with me, 24/7 365, all day, every day, from morning to night.

Imagine that I am walking alone on a cold February night, and a car pulls up alongside me. Three thugs jump out, and one holds a gun to my head: My level of Emunah will determine how clearly I see that my fate is not in the hands of some drug-crazed kid, but rather on the decree HASHEM made for me that previous Rosh Hashanah. Amazingly, I can have this understanding and yet lack a level of trust in HASHEM.

Bitachon requires understanding the goodness of HASHEM

To truly rely on HASHEM, there are two additional criteria I must feel: 1. That HASHEM loves me more than I love myself. 2. That HASHEM knows better than I was is for my good. After recognizing that HASHEM is involved in every action that occurs on this planet, I still must focus on the reality that I am a mortal, with limited sight and understanding. That which may appear to be in my best interest may not really be so. That which I deeply desire may actually be to my detriment, whether in this World or the World to Come.

Bitachon is predicated upon knowing that HASHEM has my best interests in mind and that He knows better than I what is for my good. When a person realizes this, and then takes their heavy load and transfers it to HASHEM -- That is Bitachon.

The answer: Moshe was greater in Emunah – the Avos were greater in Bitachon

The answer to the question seems to be that Moshe Rabbenu was on a higher level of Emunah than any other human being, then or since. He saw HASHEM with an absolute clarity. As we see a piece of wood in front of us as undeniably real, he saw HASHEM -- right there. But absolute trust in HASHEM doesn’t necessarily follow. Bitachon is something that is learnt, something that is practiced -- much like a character trait that one develops over many years, one learns, often through life experiences, to be totally, utterly trusting in the kindness of HASHEM. Apparently, the Avos reached a higher level in this regard. They had an unwavering sense of the constant goodness and lovingkindness of HASHEM; hence, they were able to be more trusting of HASHEM – even when on the surface, there were many questions to be asked. Moshe was greater in Emunah, while they were greater in Bitachon.
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[q_q_]

well, if recommending books.. An amazing one is

Handbook of jewish thought by rabbi aryeh kaplan. It's 2 volumes, the first volume is more interesting, but it's unbelievable..

If you could just see a page, your eyes will pop out of your head. The scholarship is very impressive.

Yes I agree on that I have Aryeh Kaplans Anthology Vol I & II {Im not sure if that is what you are referring to}. It is a compilation of many of his papers and short books.

I am looking at Anthology I & II now, they contain the following books:
<snip>

i'm sure it's very good, i've read some of them, but it's not what i'm referring to.

The thing I refer to is called Handbook of jewish thought .


He does have a classic which I like for its scholarship rather than the translation. His translation of the chumash, with commentary. Here is a scanned in page I found online.




He may not always be accurate in his translations, but the amount he produced and the breadth of scholarship is amazing.

He would write many books simultaneously.. He did his chumash translation with commentary in 9 months!!!!!!!!  Lots of pages like that!  And no doubt wrote many books at the same time as that.

He died around 60.  But the volume of material he produced and the scholarship, it's like many many people had produced it.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Garden of Emuna - Rav Shalom Arush (avaliable in many places, a very good- also popular book) Will make your life easier (dont worry it is not one of those books of rebuke, more of recognizing G-d and living life with the recognition of G-d in everything).

[muman613]

Wow, looks interesting... I will consider it when I make my next order... Who sells it online? I think I got the Anthologies from Artscroll {and they are in artscrolls classic style}.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

There is a native Indian saying:  "Trust in G-d, but steer away from the rocks."  Of course we must trust that G-d has a hand in everything, and that His plan will unfold in the way He has set out.  But I believe that we are so far removed from understanding the complexity of G-d and His methods.  So if three thugs jump out of a car to attack me, it would be foolish for me to think that I should do nothing, as G-d's Will will be done.

G-d may have a hand in the minutae of everyday life, but He gave us free will.  Free will, will inevitably make outcomes unforeseeable.  I can trust that there will be ultimate justice.  I can trust that G-d has created things that are far beyond my comprehension, but that they are ordered.  And maybe in the Olam Haba, I will come to know G-d's ways, but for now, I have to put my free will to the best use possible.

One other thing, just because there is imperfect justice in this world, which will ultimately be rectified, does not mean that there is no meaning in this world.  We must realize that although we may not achieve perfection, justice, harmony, and so on, that there is still meaning in striving for it, as we are now on this temporal plane.

[muman613]

Garden of Emuna - Rav Shalom Arush (avaliable in many places, a very good- also popular book) Will make your life easier (dont worry it is not one of those books of rebuke, more of recognizing G-d and living life with the recognition of G-d in everything).

Yes this is a great book so I hear... I ordered several books from Breslev.co.il and they are great... I got Rabbi Nachmans Stories and Uman, Uman Rosh Hashana a book about the Breslovers pilgrimage to his grave each Rosh Hashana.

Get the Garden of Emmunah from the Breslever site:

http://www.breslev.co.il/store/books/breslev_books_english/the_garden_of_emuna.aspx?id=2433&language=english

[muman613]

There is a native Indian saying:  "Trust in G-d, but steer away from the rocks."  Of course we must trust that G-d has a hand in everything, and that His plan will unfold in the way He has set out.  But I believe that we are so far removed from understanding the complexity of G-d and His methods.  So if three thugs jump out of a car to attack me, it would be foolish for me to think that I should do nothing, as G-d's Will will be done.

G-d may have a hand in the minutae of everyday life, but He gave us free will.  Free will, will inevitably make outcomes unforeseeable.  I can trust that there will be ultimate justice.  I can trust that G-d has created things that are far beyond my comprehension, but that they are ordered.  And maybe in the Olam Haba, I will come to know G-d's ways, but for now, I have to put my free will to the best use possible.

One other thing, just because there is imperfect justice in this world, which will ultimately be rectified, does not mean that there is no meaning in this world.  We must realize that although we may not achieve perfection, justice, harmony, and so on, that there is still meaning in striving for it, as we are now on this temporal plane.

There is nothing you say which defies having complete faith in Hashem. Hashem has given us tools and abilities to use. It is our mission to use what Hashem has given us to the best of our abilities. I don't think any Rabbi suggests we should just submit to any hardship which confronts us. Ultimately our faith requires us to act with our best interests in mind.

[q_q_]

<snip>
Where would I find Kahane bio vol 1?

Urim Publications

here

http://www.urimpublications.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=UP&Product_Code=Kahane

I think you'd get a better education about kahane from listening to his audio, if you haven't already..  http://www.toojewish.com/kahane/

and whatever video is available on youtube or google video.
the one of them (talk at camp sdei chemed) is under keyword kahana instead of kahane.

Thank you.  I know less about Rabbi Kahane's Hallacic interpretations (though I'm not entirely uninformed about this) than his political beliefs.  I have seen that talk at camp sdei chemed.  But I will check out the links you have provided me.

rabbi kahane did write a philosophy of judaism The Jewish Idea  ,  Ohr HaRayon, and was murdered before completing his commentary on tenach - peirush Peirush Hamaccabi.
Ohr HaRayon is available in english.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

There is a native Indian saying:  "Trust in G-d, but steer away from the rocks."  Of course we must trust that G-d has a hand in everything, and that His plan will unfold in the way He has set out.  But I believe that we are so far removed from understanding the complexity of G-d and His methods.  So if three thugs jump out of a car to attack me, it would be foolish for me to think that I should do nothing, as G-d's Will will be done.

G-d may have a hand in the minutae of everyday life, but He gave us free will.  Free will, will inevitably make outcomes unforeseeable.  I can trust that there will be ultimate justice.  I can trust that G-d has created things that are far beyond my comprehension, but that they are ordered.  And maybe in the Olam Haba, I will come to know G-d's ways, but for now, I have to put my free will to the best use possible.

One other thing, just because there is imperfect justice in this world, which will ultimately be rectified, does not mean that there is no meaning in this world.  We must realize that although we may not achieve perfection, justice, harmony, and so on, that there is still meaning in striving for it, as we are now on this temporal plane.

There is nothing you say which defies having complete faith in Hashem. Hashem has given us tools and abilities to use. It is our mission to use what Hashem has given us to the best of our abilities. I don't think any Rabbi suggests we should just submit to any hardship which confronts us. Ultimately our faith requires us to act with our best interests in mind.

I agree, but there are those who do not.  Fatalistic people who say "what will be will be" often think that they have a greater degree of faith than the rest of us.  But this is foolhardy. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Garden of Emuna - Rav Shalom Arush (avaliable in many places, a very good- also popular book) Will make your life easier (dont worry it is not one of those books of rebuke, more of recognizing G-d and living life with the recognition of G-d in everything).

Yes this is a great book so I hear... I ordered several books from Breslev.co.il and they are great... I got Rabbi Nachmans Stories and Uman, Uman Rosh Hashana a book about the Breslovers pilgrimage to his grave each Rosh Hashana.

Get the Garden of Emmunah from the Breslever site:

http://www.breslev.co.il/store/books/breslev_books_english/the_garden_of_emuna.aspx?id=2433&language=english

 Wow that is cheap. Only 10$, It was more back when I got it, but it is well worth even doubled or tripled. (One would want to read it over and over again also).

  Also Or- Harayon is very great, if one has an opportunity to find it somewhere, I recommend you do so.

[muman613]

<snip>

I agree, but there are those who do not.  Fatalistic people who say "what will be will be" often think that they have a greater degree of faith than the rest of us.  But this is foolhardy.  

Let me relate to you a story I just recently heard a Rabbi tell over and I heard another Rabbi tell over many months ago:

A man was living in a land where there was a flood and the water was rising very quickly. This man was a very religious and devout soul who had so much faith that a miracle would occur and he would be saved by the hand of the L-rd.

The water had reached his ankles and a paramedic came and told him to evacuate because the water was rising quickly. He told the man in a pleasant manner that the L-rd would surely save him from the flood and thanked him for his interest and sent the paramedic on his way. He was sure that the hand of the L-rd would save him from the flood.

As time passed the water had reached his chest and he stood in his house waiting for a miracle. A boat came to his house and the man in the boat yelled to him to come out because the water was rising quickly. The man was sure a miracle would happen and he told the boat man to leave because the L-rd would save him. The boat left and the man looked to heaven waiting for his savior.

Well the water had risen so quickly that the man had to go to his roof to avoid drowning. As he sat there a helicopter came and the pilot yelled at the man to get in because the water was still rising. Well the mans faith was firm and he told the pilot that the L-rd would save him with a miracle. He told the pilot to go away.

The waters rose above the mans head and he drowned. As his soul went before the holy heavenly tribunal they asked him why he was there. He told them that he was waiting for Hashem to perform a miracle for him so that he would be saved.

They informed this poor man that Hashem had sent three angels to save him, he had sent the paramedic, the man in the boat, and the helicopter pilot to save him and he refused to be saved.

The moral of this story is that people are waiting for a 'miracle' and they don't know what that miracle really is. In another thread I read that someones faith is contingent upon a miracle of sufficient un-naturalness to 'prove' Hashems providence in the world. Well those kinds of miracles do happen each day and we just need to open our eyes to see them.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

<snip>

I agree, but there are those who do not.  Fatalistic people who say "what will be will be" often think that they have a greater degree of faith than the rest of us.  But this is foolhardy.  

Let me relate to you a story I just recently heard a Rabbi tell over and I heard another Rabbi tell over many months ago:

A man was living in a land where there was a flood and the water was rising very quickly. This man was a very religious and devout soul who had so much faith that a miracle would occur and he would be saved by the hand of the L-rd.

The water had reached his ankles and a paramedic came and told him to evacuate because the water was rising quickly. He told the man in a pleasant manner that the L-rd would surely save him from the flood and thanked him for his interest and sent the paramedic on his way. He was sure that the hand of the L-rd would save him from the flood.

As time passed the water had reached his chest and he stood in his house waiting for a miracle. A boat came to his house and the man in the boat yelled to him to come out because the water was rising quickly. The man was sure a miracle would happen and he told the boat man to leave because the L-rd would save him. The boat left and the man looked to heaven waiting for his savior.

Well the water had risen so quickly that the man had to go to his roof to avoid drowning. As he sat there a helicopter came and the pilot yelled at the man to get in because the water was still rising. Well the mans faith was firm and he told the pilot that the L-rd would save him with a miracle. He told the pilot to go away.

The waters rose above the mans head and he drowned. As his soul went before the holy heavenly tribunal they asked him why he was there. He told them that he was waiting for Hashem to perform a miracle for him so that he would be saved.

They informed this poor man that Hashem had sent three angels to save him, he had sent the paramedic, the man in the boat, and the helicopter pilot to save him and he refused to be saved.

The moral of this story is that people are waiting for a 'miracle' and they don't know what that miracle really is. In another thread I read that someones faith is contingent upon a miracle of sufficient un-naturalness to 'prove' Hashems providence in the world. Well those kinds of miracles do happen each day and we just need to open our eyes to see them.

I was going to tell you the same story!

[muman613]

We do think alike and maybe we listen to the same Rabbis