Author Topic: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?  (Read 1768 times)

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Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« on: January 20, 2009, 06:36:16 PM »
My brother just told me that Amnesty international is claiming that Israel used white phosphorous in Gaza.  This constitutes a "war crime" if it's true.  To me, Amnesty International has a poor track record of credibility, but I'd like to know whether it's true or not.  Have you heard anything about this?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 08:43:27 PM by zachor_ve_kavod »

Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2009, 06:37:16 PM »
I posted an article about this a couple weeks ago
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,30310.0.html

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2009, 06:40:46 PM »
War crimes can only be committed against human beings. The Arabs that call themselves Palestinians are nothing but filthy animals like cockroaches or hookworms.

Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2009, 06:44:08 PM »
I posted an article about this a couple weeks ago
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,30310.0.html

I read that article.  But how can I verify its truthfulness?

Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2009, 06:47:09 PM »
I posted an article about this a couple weeks ago
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,30310.0.html

I read that article.  But how can I verify its truthfulness?

There was an article on Yahoo which had shown pics of artillery that had numbers that match weapons which have White phosphorus

Offline q_q_

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 06:58:21 PM »
pheasant wrote a post about that, he said it's not a war crime it's normal


on the news they didn't say it was illegal, they said it creates a fog! maybe it doesn't do more than that!!!

Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 07:09:21 PM »
pheasant wrote a post about that, he said it's not a war crime it's normal


on the news they didn't say it was illegal, they said it creates a fog! maybe it doesn't do more than that!!!

It depends how it is used
If used in a certin way it will burn the skin

Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 07:11:20 PM »
Actually, I just found this article which refutes claims of Israeli use of white phosphorous as a weapon.  You see, it doesn't make sense that Israel would send thousands of text messages to Gaza, to prevent civilian casualties, and then use white phosphorous.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232100169292&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

["]
 
JPost.com » Opinion » Op-Ed Contributors » Article
 
 
Jan 17, 2009 21:27 | Updated Jan 17, 2009 23:27
Human Rights Watch: White (phosphorous) lies
By GERALD M. STEINBERG
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Human Rights Watch is one of the most powerful organizations claiming to promote international morality and law, but along with Amnesty International and the United Nations, shares responsibility for the transformation of these principles into weapons aimed at Israel.

In the most recent example, HRW, headed by Kenneth Roth, initiated a campaign alleging that the IDF was using white phosphorus weapons unlawfully in the conflict in Gaza with Hamas. The organization issued a news release, followed by a more detailed publication, while officials gave press interviews to promote the allegations. Marc Garlasco, who claims the title "senior military analyst" (based on a short stint in the Pentagon), declared, "White phosphorous can burn down houses and cause horrific burns when it touches the skin... Israel should not use it in Gaza's densely populated areas."

In a few hours, the "white phosphorous" story was featured in dozens of newspapers, Internet blogs and television news programs. IDF officials, including Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Gadi Ashkenazi, denied that Israel was using phosphorous in anti-personnel weapons, but this did not slow the viral spread of this story.

HRW's "evidence" was based entirely on innuendo and unverifiable "eyewitness" reports. One report states that "
  • n January 9, Human Rights Watch researchers on a ridge overlooking Gaza from the northwest observed multiple air-bursts of artillery-fired WP that appeared to be over the Gaza City/Jabalya area. In addition, Human Rights Watch has analyzed photographs taken by the media on the Israel-Gaza border." HRW does not name its researchers; it does not provide a detailed location of its observation, nor does it identify the photos it "analyzed" making independent verification of this "evidence" impossible.


INDEED, TWO days later, the International Committee of the Red Cross, which certainly cannot be accused of a pro-Israeli bias, issued a statement that backed the IDF statements. "Using phosphorus to illuminate a target or create smoke is legitimate under international law," it said, adding that there was no evidence that Israel was "using phosphorus in a questionable way, such as burning down buildings or consciously putting civilians at risk." (Flares assist search and rescue forces in saving the lives of wounded soldiers and preventing Hamas from snatching the bodies of dead soldiers. To claim that such operations are illegitimate is, in and of itself, immoral.)

But these points were secondary to the NGO ideologues - the important point was that the images fit the dominant narrative of Israel as always guilty of war crimes, and of the Palestinians (or, in the 2006 Second Lebanon War, Hizbullah) as innocent victims. In this campaign, HRW was joined by Amnesty International, B'Tselem and the Palestinian Center for Human Rights. The latter two are funded by the European Union, ostensibly to promote democracy and human rights. When Hamas launched a phosphorus shell into Israel, these organizations, including HRW, were silent, as has been the case regarding the use of human shields in Gaza and other real war crimes.

By the time the ICRC confirmed the IDF statements, the damage was done - the image of Israel as a serial violator of international law and human rights was reinforced - a major success for Hamas. CNN, the Times (London) and Christian Science Monitor ran major stories, embellished with quotes from doctors in Gaza, including propagandist Mads Gilbert, who claimed to have seen phosphorous burns. Gilbert also justified the 9/11 terror attacks, but this did not prevent the government-funded Norwegian Aid Committee from financing his incitement. (CNN quoted but then ignored Dr. Peter Grossman, a burns expert in California and unconnected with the conflict, who stated that "it is not possible to tell, based on pictures of burns, whether white phosphorus was responsible.")

Based on these reports, Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan repeated the false claim in an anti-Israel diatribe, thereby deepening the rift between Ankara and Jerusalem and increasing the sense of isolation in Israel.

THE FALSE white-phosphorous allegation is part of a pattern led by HRW that reflects the modern version of the blood libel. For the past year, HRW has been a leader in the use of international legal rhetoric such as "collective punishment," to attack Israel. And in the July 30, 2006 Kana incident in the Second Lebanon War, Lucy Mair (HRW's former researcher with a prior history of anti-Israel campaigning) disregarded the Red Cross on-scene estimate of 28 casualties (which proved to be the actual figure) in favor of a higher estimate of 54 provided by an alleged "survivor." HRW's false estimate was widely picked up by the media and further disseminated by HRW in an August 1, 2006 press release, sparking an international outcry and leading to a 48-hour halt in IAF operations, which extended the war.

Similarly, Marc Garlasco led HRW's high-profile "investigation" into the Gaza Beach incident in 2006, repeating claims that "the evidence overwhelmingly supports the allegations that the civilians were killed by artillery shells fired by the IDF," and ignoring details that did not fit his ideological "conclusion." Garlasco was also among the authors of HRW's "Razing Rafah" report of 2004, which contained many unverifiable and disputed claims, erased the context of terror and was used to justify HRW involvement in anti-Israel boycott campaigns.

In this way, HRW and other self-proclaimed human rights organizations have contributed a great deal to undermining the moral basis of morality and international law. Instead of repeatedly calling for "independent investigations" of Israel, the donors to HRW need to undertake an investigation of how this once-serious organization has been destroyed from within.

The writer is the chairman of the Political Science Department at Bar-Ilan University and executive director of NGO Monitor.
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Offline GoIsraelGo!

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2009, 07:25:38 PM »
War crimes can only be committed against human beings. The Arabs that call themselves Palestinians are nothing but filthy animals like cockroaches or hookworms



Ruby !!! What an excellent post ^5

P.S. No offense but next time please do not insult cockroaches or worms like that     :)



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Offline q_q_

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2009, 08:12:56 PM »
My brother just told me that Amnesty international is claiming that Israel used white phosphorous in Gaza.  This constitutes a "war crime" if it's true.  To me, Amnesty International has a poor track record of credibility, but I'd like to know whether it's true or not.  Have you heard anything about this?

zachor this is the stupidest subject you could have done...

absolutely no description of wha you are talking about.

is everybody mean to click "is this true?"

Do you want people to REMEMBER every time they see "is this true" that they mean your silly thing..

You should write in the subject a proper description, like
Is this white phophorus claim true..
 

Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Re: Is this true?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2009, 08:42:27 PM »
My brother just told me that Amnesty international is claiming that Israel used white phosphorous in Gaza.  This constitutes a "war crime" if it's true.  To me, Amnesty International has a poor track record of credibility, but I'd like to know whether it's true or not.  Have you heard anything about this?

zachor this is the stupidest subject you could have done...

absolutely no description of wha you are talking about.

is everybody mean to click "is this true?"

Do you want people to REMEMBER every time they see "is this true" that they mean your silly thing..

You should write in the subject a proper description, like
Is this white phophorus claim true..
 

q_q_, I think your objection is to the title, not to the subject.  You should try to be less ambiguous in your criticisms.  Also, "what" is spelled with a "t" at the end of it.

To satisfy you, I will change the title.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 08:49:17 PM »
good change..

by the way, what you call the "title", is indeed called the subject.

If you click Reply, you see it says Subject: __________________

just like in an email..  There is a subject and a body. Those are the technical terms.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2009, 09:30:25 PM »
This is about as credible as the idea that Jews use the blood of children to make matzos. Why do people even give this drivel the time of day?

Offline q_q_

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2009, 09:38:49 PM »
This is about as credible as the idea that Jews use the blood of children to make matzos. Why do people even give this drivel the time of day?

"Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous:  Are they true?"

It may be well be true, but legal, used in wars, and nothing wrong with it!

VERY silly of you to compare it to blood in matzos

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2009, 09:58:21 PM »
There was an old and proven by history weapon of mass liberation, which is also legal and often recommended by doctors.

The weapon is called "Open Border for 72 hours for Mass Exodus of Enemy Population".
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2009, 10:10:27 PM »
VERY silly of you to compare it to blood in matzos
Like all of your posts, Lebanese.

Offline q_q_

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2009, 10:20:50 PM »
VERY silly of you to compare it to blood in matzos
Like all of your posts, Lebanese.

Am I a lebanese christian? muslim?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2009, 10:24:09 PM »
You tell me, you came up with the screenname.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2009, 10:28:23 PM »
Guys, I've covered this on my blog.  Human Rights Watch now has egg on their ugly faces.  The use of white phosphorous in ward is LEGAL.  And that's according to the Muslim loving Red Cross.  Also, I read in another article that the white phosphorous was used only for purposes of illumination, so they could find their targets.  It wasn't used directly on any Arabs.  This is why you can't rely ONLY on the mainstream media for your news. 

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2009, 10:33:31 PM »
OK, Lisa, I read that on your blog, but I still do not buy it. This sounds like a typical anti-Semitic canard. I don't know why q_q (or lebanese, as I suspect is his second screenname) must argue with absolutely everything.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2009, 10:35:05 PM »
C.F., I'm not saying this isn't an anti-semitic canard.  On the other hand, the Red Cross would not come out and say that the use of white phosphorous is legal after all. 

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2009, 07:18:34 AM »
I think we should have used a neutron bomb on Gaza.

Offline GoIsraelGo!

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2009, 12:26:19 PM »
I think we should have used a neutron bomb on Gaza.


I agree, gaza should be completely leveled. All buildings should be demolished. Nothing should be left for the Palestinians.

The Palestinians have attempted to occupy Israel, throw them out. If they don't leave willingly, bomb them out.

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Offline Ben Yehuda

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Re: Claims that Israel used white phosphorous: Are they true?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2009, 04:25:45 PM »
Oh excuse me dear fellow, would you mind if did kill you. So sorry, old chap. :laugh: