How Does The Money In the U.S. Get Into Circulation?

[briann]

Briann you are waisting your time trying to teach people finances that don't care to learn or understand them. The world we live in today could not possibly work under the system mdub speaks of. Banks giving credit under the correct conditions is the life blood of a capitalist system. Without credit we would all still be living in the horse and buggy era.

I know, I do this for the same reason I did it for for 9/11 truthers a while back.  I get a kick out of it.  I know this guy is dumb, but its fun to humor stupid people.

[AsheDina]

I really DONT get why mdub the nazi small PUTZ is here and MarZutra, Nik, Massuh, and Aryeh ALL KAHANISTS are NOT here.

[mdub]

to make this simple for others: if I went to brian and asked him for a loan to start my small biz. and he doesn't give me real money that he earned. he gives me counterfit money that he printed in his basement. then he asks me to pay him back with REAL money plus interest. he would get arrested. but that's exactly what the banks do every day and they don't get arrested because they wrote the law that says they can do this.

I can tell from your statement above that you really dont know how banks work.   I will try to expain it to you in simple terms.  (I was the Finance Professor of the year at my school, and am quite good at this)   

scenario A:
Your scenario where people lend their own money and cannot use a bank to do it for them.
 
I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then I take the extra $50.00 and lend it to company X

__________________________

Scenario B:  (The way things work in every country on the planet)

I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then with the extra $50.00 rather than figuring out who to lend it to... I deposit to a bank... and the banks lends out $45.00 to company X (Req. to keep 10% reserve).

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHY do you think Scenario B uses made up counterfeit money???  The exact thing just happened, the only difference is I used an intermediary, and I am far less involved.

Where is the counterfeit money coming from?  Explain to me WHY in Scenario B, the $ is coming from 'thin air'?

ok. in scenarios B. First of all: are you happy with what just happened here? You gave that 50 bucks to the bank to keep it SECURE and what did they do? They put it at RISK by loaning it to a company that you've maybe never heard of.

Now this begs the question: whose money was that? Was that the BANK'S money to do whatever it wants with? Or was that YOUR money and they put it at risk without ever telling you that they don't actually have the money you have them.  you've set up an economy ripe for a run on the banks. If you and a million other people want your 50 bucks back the bankers will say "sorry we dont have it" and you'll hang them and it'll be chaos.

but it's worse than scenario b. Because in scenario B you're talking about money that's already in circulation. but it works a little differently the FIRST time money is circulated.

please explain to me how the money gets into circulation...where does it originally come from...e.g. the federeal reserve recently gave a lot of money to banks...where do they get that money from?

[cjd]

I really DONT get why mdub the nazi small PUTZ is here and MarZutra, Nik, Massuh, and Aryeh ALL KAHANISTS are NOT here.

All great members at one time but about the only one that did not have a problem with JTF was Massuh. Massuh just sort of  drifted off.

[mdub]

Briann you are waisting your time trying to teach people finances that don't care to learn or understand them. The world we live in today could not possibly work under the system mdub speaks of. Banks giving credit under the correct conditions is the life blood of a capitalist system. Without credit we would all still be living in the horse and buggy era.

Stop calling it "credit". This is orwellian. it's a debt to you and a credit to the bank.  Call it what it is: debt.

Now repeat what you just said: debt is the lifeblood of the captilist system. without debt we'd all be living in teh horse and buggy era.

see how ridiculous that statement is? Debt i.e. easy money (what you call "credit") doesn't make an economy strong. it only gives the APPEARANCE of strength until the debt bubble collapses.

What DOES make an economy prosper? The same thing that has made it prosper since the beginning of time: providing VALUE.
If America provides VALUE to the world (i.e. exports) it will prosper no matter what.

if you've got a car to invent and it's VALUABLE-then under a normal system you'll have no trouble getting cash from LOTS of people who want a share of your profits in exchange for the money.

The reason Brian hasn't been getting paid back for his loans is because he's not loaning it to someone that's doing something VALUABLE enough to garner the money to pay him back. either that or the guy's a crook in which case he should do more due diligence into whom he gives a loan to.

[briann]

to make this simple for others: if I went to brian and asked him for a loan to start my small biz. and he doesn't give me real money that he earned. he gives me counterfit money that he printed in his basement. then he asks me to pay him back with REAL money plus interest. he would get arrested. but that's exactly what the banks do every day and they don't get arrested because they wrote the law that says they can do this.

I can tell from your statement above that you really dont know how banks work.   I will try to expain it to you in simple terms.  (I was the Finance Professor of the year at my school, and am quite good at this)   

scenario A:
Your scenario where people lend their own money and cannot use a bank to do it for them.
 
I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then I take the extra $50.00 and lend it to company X

__________________________

Scenario B:  (The way things work in every country on the planet)

I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then with the extra $50.00 rather than figuring out who to lend it to... I deposit to a bank... and the banks lends out $45.00 to company X (Req. to keep 10% reserve).

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHY do you think Scenario B uses made up counterfeit money???  The exact thing just happened, the only difference is I used an intermediary, and I am far less involved.

Where is the counterfeit money coming from?  Explain to me WHY in Scenario B, the $ is coming from 'thin air'?

ok. in scenarios B. First of all: are you happy with what just happened here? You gave that 50 bucks to the bank to keep it SECURE and what did they do? They put it at RISK by loaning it to a company that you've maybe never heard of.

Now this begs the question: whose money was that? Was that the BANK'S money to do whatever it wants with? Or was that YOUR money and they put it at risk without ever telling you that they don't actually have the money you have them.  you've set up an economy ripe for a run on the banks. If you and a million other people want your 50 bucks back the bankers will say "sorry we dont have it" and you'll hang them and it'll be chaos.

What a shock, you didnt answer the question... which I knew you couldnt... (But I just wanted to see you talk yourself around it).   What you said earlier was nonsence about commercial banks being able to create money out of thin air because they dont have 100% reserve requirements.

Yes... you are right... the bank could lose all of my insured deposits..... but can you tell me some examples of this happening since we went off the gold standard in the last 70 years??  (Not before... because it used to happen all the time) Surely you must be able to give me thousands of examples of average people losing their insured deposits in the last 70 years in America since you are very knowledgeable in this area?

I will tell you.. that under your scenario (Scenario A) I have lost my investment nearly every time.  Every time I lent my money out to family members, friends, and small businesses it has been next to impossible to get it back... and often times... I just gave up all together.  One time, I did take an individual to court, and I only got a portion of it back... neglecting legal fees.

I am one person.. and I can give you a handful of examples of me NOT getting my money back using your glorious example A.  Now I want you to give me examples of the 100's of millions of average insured depositors here in the U.S. in the last 70 years who lost their deposits using the example B.  

[mdub]

to make this simple for others: if I went to brian and asked him for a loan to start my small biz. and he doesn't give me real money that he earned. he gives me counterfit money that he printed in his basement. then he asks me to pay him back with REAL money plus interest. he would get arrested. but that's exactly what the banks do every day and they don't get arrested because they wrote the law that says they can do this.

I can tell from your statement above that you really dont know how banks work.   I will try to expain it to you in simple terms.  (I was the Finance Professor of the year at my school, and am quite good at this)   

scenario A:
Your scenario where people lend their own money and cannot use a bank to do it for them.
 
I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then I take the extra $50.00 and lend it to company X

__________________________

Scenario B:  (The way things work in every country on the planet)

I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then with the extra $50.00 rather than figuring out who to lend it to... I deposit to a bank... and the banks lends out $45.00 to company X (Req. to keep 10% reserve).

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHY do you think Scenario B uses made up counterfeit money???  The exact thing just happened, the only difference is I used an intermediary, and I am far less involved.

Where is the counterfeit money coming from?  Explain to me WHY in Scenario B, the $ is coming from 'thin air'?

ok. in scenarios B. First of all: are you happy with what just happened here? You gave that 50 bucks to the bank to keep it SECURE and what did they do? They put it at RISK by loaning it to a company that you've maybe never heard of.

Now this begs the question: whose money was that? Was that the BANK'S money to do whatever it wants with? Or was that YOUR money and they put it at risk without ever telling you that they don't actually have the money you have them.  you've set up an economy ripe for a run on the banks. If you and a million other people want your 50 bucks back the bankers will say "sorry we dont have it" and you'll hang them and it'll be chaos.

What a shock, you didnt answer the question... which I knew you couldnt... (But I just wanted to see you talk yourself around it).   What you said earlier was nonsence about commercial banks being able to create money out of thin air because they dont have 100% reserve requirements.

Yes... you are right... the bank could lose all of my insured deposits..... but can you tell me some examples of this happening since we went off the gold standard in the last 70 years??  (Not before... because it used to happen all the time) Surely you must be able to give me thousands of examples of average people losing their insured deposits in the last 70 years in America since you are very knowledgeable in this area?

I will tell you.. that under your scenario (Scenario A) I have lost my investment nearly every time.  Every time I lent my money out to family members, friends, and small businesses it has been next to impossible to get it back... and often times... I just gave up all together.  One time, I did take an individual to court, and I only got a portion of it back... neglecting legal fees.

I am one person.. and I can give you a handful of examples of me NOT getting my money back using your glorious example A.  Now I want you to give me examples of the 100's of millions of average insured depositors here in the U.S. in the last 70 years who lost their deposits using the example B.  

Brian,

See what I said above about due diligence and loaning to people who create value.. You would make a crappy banker by teh way.

But it's okay. You're being deceptive. You know that banks DO lose their deposits all the time...when that starts to happen too much they are bailed out by something called....tehe federal resevere i.e. the central bank.

And THAT is where there scammy lending practices are taking place that I was talking about.

You're the one not answering my questions, not the other way around.

My question in a nutshell is: how does the Federal Reservce get this money to bail out the banks when they are losing to many of their depoists? My dollars say "Federal Reserve notes". The government borrows money from teh fed to pay for its operations. I want to know where the Fed gets all this money from? I also want to know how much the Fed has to pay to get one of those Federal reserve notes from teh treasury. How much do they have to pay for a $10 bill? How much do they need to pay for a $100 bill?

[briann]

I told you I just wanted to focus on your dumbest statement, so I want YOU to focus on it like a laser. 

To make things easier… lets pretend we are only talking about BEFORE 1933 when we were on the gold standard.

Now, lets look at your statement: When I showed you that before 1933 when we were on the Gold Standard, the recessions were far worse, and lasted much longer… You responded… its because of the reserve requirement of a bank wasn’t 100%.

You said THIS is the way banks should operate.  And you said if they DON’T have a reserve requirement of 100% it allows banks the power to create ‘counterfeit’ money out of thin air. 

So pretending we are in the 1800’s… answer me this and focus on it like a laser.

scenario A:
I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then I take the extra $50.00 and lend it to company X on my own.

__________________________

Scenario B:
I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then with the extra $50.00 rather than figuring out who to lend it to... I deposit to a bank... and the banks lends out $45.00 to company X (Req. to keep 10% reserve).

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHY do you think Scenario B uses made up counterfeit money And PRETEND its happening in the 1800’s BEFORE we went off the gold standard.

Question 2:

Explain to me 1 example of a successful country that has used your method of 100% reserve requirement in the last 200 years.

If you CANT think of an example a single country... please explain to me why?

Again.. like I said a few posts ago... the reason I am focusing on this.. is that I believe that these are your dumbest statements.

[briann]

My question in a nutshell is: how does the Federal Reservce get this money to bail out the banks when they are losing to many of their depoists? My dollars say "Federal Reserve notes". The government borrows money from teh fed to pay for its operations. I want to know where the Fed gets all this money from? I also want to know how much the Fed has to pay to get one of those Federal reserve notes from teh treasury. How much do they have to pay for a $10 bill? How much do they need to pay for a $100 bill?

OK, I'll asnwer this but in a separate post.  DO NOT mix my last question with this one.  The Fed almost NEVER gives emergency lending.  Before last year, it hadnt happened since the 1930's.  For that period in between... the Banks borrowed from eachother when they were low on reserves.

Also.. the Federal Government does NOT borrow from the FED!!!!!   Who keeps telling you this??? If our government has a debt... it borrows the money from the Chinese.  Obama must use the US treasury as a vehicle to issue these debt instruments.....  but they DONT issue it to the fed.. they issue the bonds to Chinese.  This is why the Chinese were in the news about being worried about Obama borrowing TOO much and making their holdings riskier.

The Fed DOES have the power to increase and decrease the money supply using open market operations.... which involves buying these bonds in a secondary market.... if they do this for the purpose of monetizing the debt... it shows up as inflation... which is what happened with Carter and may happen with Obama.   In general, if they just start printing money for no reason it shows up as inflation  (Extreme examples are the Weimar republic and Turkey).  However, in the US Other than in WWI and WWII when the Fed inflated the economy... (WHich is always done during warting) the Fed has kept inflation remarkably low... They have managed to keep inflation at around 3%... EVEN when you include energy and commodities.  The only exception has been Carter's experiment in stagflation.

[mdub]

Scenario B:
I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then with the extra $50.00 rather than figuring out who to lend it to... I deposit to a bank... and the banks lends out $45.00 to company X (Req. to keep 10% reserve).

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHY do you think Scenario B uses made up counterfeit money And PRETEND its happening in the 1800’s BEFORE we went off the gold standard.

The counterfeit money is not in that transaction. It's in the next one. once the bank loans out the $45 to company X - company x puts it back into the economy and it winds up at another bank who will now view that as REAL money (not debt money) that THEY have even though the first bank is still viewing YOUR $45 as real money too. of course they'll charge interest on both loans even though one of them wasn't backed by anything.

bank #2 who gets the deposit from company x can lend out about 40 bucks.

So we started with only $50 in circulation. we wound up with 90 right? 40 was created "out of thin air".

if we look at all the banks as one big bank that bank has been able to make multiple loans on a single deposit. I think there's like 78 times more loans than there are deposits in the world.

Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of the Bank of England,1928-41, said......." The modern banking system manufacturers money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand ever created. Banking was conceived an iniquity & born in sin. Bankers own the earth....


i believe that the vast majority of money in our economy was created this way...not by mint.

[briann]

Scenario B:
I earn my $100, I keep $50.00 of it for my home expenses, then with the extra $50.00 rather than figuring out who to lend it to... I deposit to a bank... and the banks lends out $45.00 to company X (Req. to keep 10% reserve).

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHY do you think Scenario B uses made up counterfeit money And PRETEND its happening in the 1800’s BEFORE we went off the gold standard.

The counterfeit money is not in that transaction. It's in the next one. once the bank loans out the $45 to company X - company x puts it back into the economy and it winds up at another bank who will now view that as REAL money that THEY have even though the first bank is still viewing YOUR $45 as real money too. of course they'll charge interest on both loans even though one of them wasn't backed by anything.

bank #2 who gets the deposit from company x can lend out about 40 bucks.

So we started with only $50 in circulation. we wound up with 90 right? 40 was created "out of thin air".

Good... Im glad you said that.... And you are absolutely right... this is basic money exansion.   

Now lets look back at your scenario 'A' where banks cant lend other people's money!!!  I want you to focus before you read the following paragraph...  so clear your mind a bit.

I take the 50 and lend it to Company 'X'... Now Company 'X' TAKES that money and it puts into the economy (In the EXACT SAME way that you stated (Lets say Comapny X uses that 50 to buy Equipment from Company Z.)  Now Company 'Z' Has the money.  Now... under Your scenario 'A', Company Z cannot use a bank to deposit that $50.00  so what does it do?  It Lends it by itself using no intermediary to Company Q.  (Again.. .the same exact scenario could potentially happen with a bank as an intermediary, but since this is not allowed... Company Z had to to it by itself... just like in the first example

THe important thing to understand is that The EXACT SAME THING IS HAPPENING>>>  the expansion is still happening withOUT the intermediary of the bank.

Now, there is no question that the banks are adding liquidity, speeding up the process..and making the lenders LESS involved. BUT expansion (Or what you call.... creating counterfeit money from thin air) STILL HAPPENS!!!!!

the only way to stop this expansion... or (counterfeiting), is for Company Z, or whoever has that $50... to take it and put in under their mattress or a cookie jar, or burn it.  If this is done, it will typically cause a depression.

So I will ask you again... do you still believe that this process of expansion (counterfeiting) can ONLY happen with banks being used as the intermediary?

Also... Who told you this in the first place?   I know a LOT of Gold Standard supporters, there are some in this forum... and I have NEVER heard ONE of them suggest that Banks shouldnt be allowed to lend on other people's behalf.  They just believe that money should be backed by Gold... like before 1933.

[mdub]

"So I will ask you again... do you still believe that this process of expansion (counterfeiting) can ONLY happen with banks being used as the intermediary?

Also... Who told you this in the first place?   I know a LOT of Gold Standard supporters, there are some in this forum... and I have NEVER heard ONE of them suggest that Banks shouldnt be allowed to lend on other people's behalf.  They just believe that money should be backed by Gold... like before 1933."

when did i say the expansion could only happen with a bank?

people can also act as banks.

but even if that sort of expansion would occur in your scenario that would be far preferable to the system we have now. since absolute power corrupts absolutely you would want the creditors to be diffused as much as possible... let the government "put it under the mattress" if the money supply becomes too great and let the government issue the money in the first place instead of giving the power over to a small group of eugenicist, power mad, former Nazi SS soldier financere bankers.

moving to a gold standard leaves room for PLENTY of abuses especially when you can lend more gold than you have. besides, these bankers own nearly all the gold so switching over to gold would still leave them in power.

there are many many alternatives to the current system. you don't like my solution? fine! books have been written on the topic proposing alternative solutions and it's high time we started considering them because when the economy collapses the bankers will propose their new system (a global currency/government run by a world bank owned and run by bankers) and if nobody presents an alternative they will win the day and the pepetual debt slavery will become global and thier power consummate.

[mdub]

I mean could there be a more ridicolous system than this one? one in which if everyone pays off their debts we're all broke? brian, isn't that nuts?

[mdub]

i think a gold standards is nuts too. Why should we be limited by how much gold there is? that's so random. it's just a metal. why shouldn't we be able to create more wealth just because they haven't found more gold? money should be given in exchange for doing ANYTHING that's valuable to society...not just finding gold. as long as people keep doing valuable things, inveting valuable things, and producing valuable things we should all get richer and richer....an ideal system would find away to make sure that money always tracks value.

[briann]

let the government "put it under the mattress" if the money supply becomes too great and let the government issue the money in the first place instead of giving the power over to a small group of eugenicist, power mad, former Nazi SS soldier financere bankers.

The problem is that when the government has direct control of the money supply it will misuse its power 99% of the time, even if its well-meaning.  Imagine if you allowed Obama direct control over the printing press... we would have inflation like youve never seen before.  He wouldnt need to raise taxes... he'd just start printing money... and could get his money MUCH quicker and more efficiently.

Wherever you see hyperinflation..  its because those who have control of fiscal policies ALSO have control over the printing press... and wherever you see low, stable inflation... you have a central bank that is independent from the government.  But yes... If Bernarke has EVIL intentions or is just plain stupid... he can obliterate our economy in a split second.  

I hope you feel better.  

[SavetheWest]

Mdub.  People like you come out of the woodwork and some people actually start to believe you when the economy is bad.  The only reason this current economic situation happened was economic institutions lifted their regulations and started to see a profit in approving loans to more people who (due to lowering the 20% down on homes) subsequently couldn't pay them.  The loans got blended into REITs and worldwide institutions invested in them.  The world has always had confidence in America's economy and the American dream so people invested in these REITS thinking they would keep on improving.  What they didn't know was that on the ground level of America, minorities and immoral Americans were not into paying their bills because they all felt they could be like an infomercial or Robin Leech's "Rich and Famous" by just getting a loan and selling it to another sucker later.  Everyone thought they were Donald Trump. 

you['re focusing on the extrenal trappings of the problem but not the root causes. behind everything you['re saying lies the ablity of a few small and corrupt group of people to inject more money (i.e. loans i.e. debt) into the economy whenever they want without restrictions.

that group of people are the owners of the major private banks who have formed the most powerful special interest groups in the world kjnown as bildeberg, the cfr and the trilateral commission. they DO have a stranglehold on the political and economic scene and a little research on your part would reveal that fact. show me a president and a presidential administration that wasn't riddled with members of these groups. show me even a serious head of a committe in congress that didn't have their blessings. even sarah palin has to kiss butt to  kissinger (cfr, bildeber and trilateral) and support the TARP banker bill to get anywhere near the presidency.

then you need to research these groups and see what their agenda is. many of their documents are public and their plans should scare teh hell out of you. what im' trying to get you to do is think outside the box. realize that until you uproot these speical interest groups from government and change this outrageous monetary system nothing will change.

i like idealistic people who want to make the world better...i want you to focus your energies on the top of pyramid exactly where they don't want you to look (notice how you werne't taught a damn thing about how money is created in school...there's a good reason for that...)

you know, many people would agree with you that there is a movement to create a system that has worldwide control.  What you say that does not make sense is that the banks control schools to not teach us about money or where it comes from.  To say that teachers are being controlled and that school systems are all 100% contolled by a few banks defies logic. There are constant disagreements at JTF, never mind a worldwide organization controlled by banks.  One thing from humanity that you are ignoring is that people rarely keep their mouths shut. With something that big, someone would say something. I'm sure you will come back and say that there are those trying to warn us but if you can give me a former member who did talk about the secret plans and that we're missing it, I'd love to hear about it. I looked into the trilateral commission and the bilderburg group and they are organizations that half the senators and presidents would belong to.  Politicians are part of hundreds of organizations to get as much involvement with businesses, community organizations and unions as possible to get support.  These things are pretty much out in the open.   Yes, there are concerns with the WTO, World Bank, and especially a World Court and a New World Order.  The people who support these ideas are very open about it and don't hide.  They talk about promoting globalization and international rule of law any chance they get.  The thing that doesn't make sense is to say the system we have is not as good as trading cattle for corn. We need a bank to control a currency so the standard paper we use, called money, isn't useless.  I know that
I get paid money so I can buy things I need or want.  If it's not enough, I'll find another line of work.  What is a conspiracy is that people want illegal immigrants to come here so they can drive down the price of labor and to get votes for their party.  I've always known that if I have a dollar in my pocket, I can go and get things with it and that's worked for 30+ years very well for me. 

I feel like I just wasted my time for about five minutes even responding to this.

[mdub]

Mdub.  People like you come out of the woodwork and some people actually start to believe you when the economy is bad.  The only reason this current economic situation happened was economic institutions lifted their regulations and started to see a profit in approving loans to more people who (due to lowering the 20% down on homes) subsequently couldn't pay them.  The loans got blended into REITs and worldwide institutions invested in them.  The world has always had confidence in America's economy and the American dream so people invested in these REITS thinking they would keep on improving.  What they didn't know was that on the ground level of America, minorities and immoral Americans were not into paying their bills because they all felt they could be like an infomercial or Robin Leech's "Rich and Famous" by just getting a loan and selling it to another sucker later.  Everyone thought they were Donald Trump. 

you['re focusing on the extrenal trappings of the problem but not the root causes. behind everything you['re saying lies the ablity of a few small and corrupt group of people to inject more money (i.e. loans i.e. debt) into the economy whenever they want without restrictions.

that group of people are the owners of the major private banks who have formed the most powerful special interest groups in the world kjnown as bildeberg, the cfr and the trilateral commission. they DO have a stranglehold on the political and economic scene and a little research on your part would reveal that fact. show me a president and a presidential administration that wasn't riddled with members of these groups. show me even a serious head of a committe in congress that didn't have their blessings. even sarah palin has to kiss butt to  kissinger (cfr, bildeber and trilateral) and support the TARP banker bill to get anywhere near the presidency.

then you need to research these groups and see what their agenda is. many of their documents are public and their plans should scare teh hell out of you. what im' trying to get you to do is think outside the box. realize that until you uproot these speical interest groups from government and change this outrageous monetary system nothing will change.

i like idealistic people who want to make the world better...i want you to focus your energies on the top of pyramid exactly where they don't want you to look (notice how you werne't taught a damn thing about how money is created in school...there's a good reason for that...)

you know, many people would agree with you that there is a movement to create a system that has worldwide control.  What you say that does not make sense is that the banks control schools to not teach us about money or where it comes from.  To say that teachers are being controlled and that school systems are all 100% contolled by a few banks defies logic. There are constant disagreements at JTF, never mind a worldwide organization controlled by banks.  One thing from humanity that you are ignoring is that people rarely keep their mouths shut. With something that big, someone would say something. I'm sure you will come back and say that there are those trying to warn us but if you can give me a former member who did talk about the secret plans and that we're missing it, I'd love to hear about it. I looked into the trilateral commission and the bilderburg group and they are organizations that half the senators and presidents would belong to.  Politicians are part of hundreds of organizations to get as much involvement with businesses, community organizations and unions as possible to get support.  These things are pretty much out in the open.   Yes, there are concerns with the WTO, World Bank, and especially a World Court and a New World Order.  The people who support these ideas are very open about it and don't hide.  They talk about promoting globalization and international rule of law any chance they get.  The thing that doesn't make sense is to say the system we have is not as good as trading cattle for corn. We need a bank to control a currency so the standard paper we use, called money, isn't useless.  I know that
I get paid money so I can buy things I need or want.  If it's not enough, I'll find another line of work.  What is a conspiracy is that people want illegal immigrants to come here so they can drive down the price of labor and to get votes for their party.  I've always known that if I have a dollar in my pocket, I can go and get things with it and that's worked for 30+ years very well for me. 

I feel like I just wasted my time for about five minutes even responding to this.

LOL! This guy admits he just found out about CFR/tri-lat/bildeberg today  yet he's ready to speak authoratatively about how  powerful they are and how powerful they aren't! 

one google search is not called "research" my friend. you need to read some books on the topic. you'll be amazed at what you learn.

Let me tell you something else. You have no idea how good the elites are at keeping secrets. they didn't become elites by being petty and stupid.
they control money. you guys fighting with eachother control nothing. they smart. you stupid. get it? when power over the world's money supply is at stake you'd be amazed at how well these guys work together and can keep their mouths shut. and if they don't work with them? they buy them out. if they can't buy them out they kill them (see what happend to...lincoln...mcfadden...jfk...more recently bill cooper and pretty much anyone else who effectively speaks out against the banking cartel eventually gets knocked off)

ever heard of the stealth bomber? sure you have! well when you found out about it had already been in existence for 20 years. just one small example of how the people at the top are better at keeping secrets than you could ever imagine.

bankers and other nwo types provide the funding behind the most prestigious ivy leauge colleges whom all the other colleges model themselves after and the public school system is run by the governement directly...a government that lives and dies by this debt based system and as I was trying to explain is also bought off bankers.


so don't try and tell me our schooling is not run by a pretty small group of people have have a vested interest in keeping the current system going...it won't go long if they public is educated about how their money really works.

you, for instance should spend your time studying the matter,but instead choose to stick yoru head in the sand and attack me for trying to bring it to your attention. good job "saving the west" with that attidude.


P.S. It's not as though every teacher is sat down with a banker and threatened. but they are taught by previous teachers who taught things one way and the A students become the teachers and the system perpetuates naturally.

[mdub]

let the government "put it under the mattress" if the money supply becomes too great and let the government issue the money in the first place instead of giving the power over to a small group of eugenicist, power mad, former Nazi SS soldier financere bankers.

The problem is that when the government has direct control of the money supply it will misuse its power 99% of the time, even if its well-meaning.  Imagine if you allowed Obama direct control over the printing press... we would have inflation like youve never seen before.  He wouldnt need to raise taxes... he'd just start printing money... and could get his money MUCH quicker and more efficiently.

Wherever you see hyperinflation..  its because those who have control of fiscal policies ALSO have control over the printing press... and wherever you see low, stable inflation... you have a central bank that is independent from the government.  But yes... If Bernarke has EVIL intentions or is just plain stupid... he can obliterate our economy in a split second.  

I hope you feel better.  

brian,

I'm not asking this to attack you: I'm asking an honest question: can you explain to me in more detail how "new money" is created in the scenario where all the lenders are private? I think i understand it in thoery but i don't get how it would actually happen without any funny business.

[mdub]

brian,

my other question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Currency_component_of_the_US_money_supply_1959-2007.gif

Look at that graph of the money supply? can inflation get much worse than it is under this system? we're talking about a dollar that's now worth 4cents compared to what is was worth on the gold standard.

i mean they've almost completely bankrupted the currency with their creation of money...at least if it were under government control we could vote the bastards out. we can't vote these bankers out.

[muman613]

mdub,

You ask many questions but do not answer any. I will ask a couple of new questions.

1) Do you know anyone who is productive and rich?

2) Do you own any property?

I ask because I am involved in software and hardware development in the Silicon Valley and this is a place where a lot of venture capital investments are created. I happen to know many very intelligent, resourceful, and rich people. All of these people worked on development of real products which are available in your electronics store right now. My company is also very resilient to the stock market and we have been increasing in value each day. This is not because of so-called 'counterfiet' money but because my company has out-done its predictions on growth year after year.

I ask the second question because anyone who has property would be aware that the market goes up and down in cycles. I have owned two houses, one in the early 90s and the second in the late 90s and both houses I bought on a down market. My house is still worth more than it was when I bought it in 98.

[mdub]

mdub,

You ask many questions but do not answer any. I will ask a couple of new questions.

1) Do you know anyone who is productive and rich?

2) Do you own any property?

I ask because I am involved in software and hardware development in the Silicon Valley and this is a place where a lot of venture capital investments are created. I happen to know many very intelligent, resourceful, and rich people. All of these people worked on development of real products which are available in your electronics store right now. My company is also very resilient to the stock market and we have been increasing in value each day. This is not because of so-called 'counterfiet' money but because my company has out-done its predictions on growth year after year.

I ask the second question because anyone who has property would be aware that the market goes up and down in cycles. I have owned two houses, one in the early 90s and the second in the late 90s and both houses I bought on a down market. My house is still worth more than it was when I bought it in 98.

Muman,

I don't thik you get what I'm saying. if people are creating software that people want and making money I think that's FANTASTIC. What I'm against are people who find a way to get money without providing anything valuable to anyone.

[SavetheWest]

Mdub.  People like you come out of the woodwork and some people actually start to believe you when the economy is bad.  The only reason this current economic situation happened was economic institutions lifted their regulations and started to see a profit in approving loans to more people who (due to lowering the 20% down on homes) subsequently couldn't pay them.  The loans got blended into REITs and worldwide institutions invested in them.  The world has always had confidence in America's economy and the American dream so people invested in these REITS thinking they would keep on improving.  What they didn't know was that on the ground level of America, minorities and immoral Americans were not into paying their bills because they all felt they could be like an infomercial or Robin Leech's "Rich and Famous" by just getting a loan and selling it to another sucker later.  Everyone thought they were Donald Trump. 

you['re focusing on the extrenal trappings of the problem but not the root causes. behind everything you['re saying lies the ablity of a few small and corrupt group of people to inject more money (i.e. loans i.e. debt) into the economy whenever they want without restrictions.

that group of people are the owners of the major private banks who have formed the most powerful special interest groups in the world kjnown as bildeberg, the cfr and the trilateral commission. they DO have a stranglehold on the political and economic scene and a little research on your part would reveal that fact. show me a president and a presidential administration that wasn't riddled with members of these groups. show me even a serious head of a committe in congress that didn't have their blessings. even sarah palin has to kiss butt to  kissinger (cfr, bildeber and trilateral) and support the TARP banker bill to get anywhere near the presidency.

then you need to research these groups and see what their agenda is. many of their documents are public and their plans should scare teh hell out of you. what im' trying to get you to do is think outside the box. realize that until you uproot these speical interest groups from government and change this outrageous monetary system nothing will change.

i like idealistic people who want to make the world better...i want you to focus your energies on the top of pyramid exactly where they don't want you to look (notice how you werne't taught a damn thing about how money is created in school...there's a good reason for that...)

you know, many people would agree with you that there is a movement to create a system that has worldwide control.  What you say that does not make sense is that the banks control schools to not teach us about money or where it comes from.  To say that teachers are being controlled and that school systems are all 100% contolled by a few banks defies logic. There are constant disagreements at JTF, never mind a worldwide organization controlled by banks.  One thing from humanity that you are ignoring is that people rarely keep their mouths shut. With something that big, someone would say something. I'm sure you will come back and say that there are those trying to warn us but if you can give me a former member who did talk about the secret plans and that we're missing it, I'd love to hear about it. I looked into the trilateral commission and the bilderburg group and they are organizations that half the senators and presidents would belong to.  Politicians are part of hundreds of organizations to get as much involvement with businesses, community organizations and unions as possible to get support.  These things are pretty much out in the open.   Yes, there are concerns with the WTO, World Bank, and especially a World Court and a New World Order.  The people who support these ideas are very open about it and don't hide.  They talk about promoting globalization and international rule of law any chance they get.  The thing that doesn't make sense is to say the system we have is not as good as trading cattle for corn. We need a bank to control a currency so the standard paper we use, called money, isn't useless.  I know that
I get paid money so I can buy things I need or want.  If it's not enough, I'll find another line of work.  What is a conspiracy is that people want illegal immigrants to come here so they can drive down the price of labor and to get votes for their party.  I've always known that if I have a dollar in my pocket, I can go and get things with it and that's worked for 30+ years very well for me. 

I feel like I just wasted my time for about five minutes even responding to this.

LOL! This guy admits he just found out about CFR/tri-lat/bildeberg today  yet he's ready to speak authoratatively about how  powerful they are and how powerful they aren't! 

one google search is not called "research" my friend. you need to read some books on the topic. you'll be amazed at what you learn.

Let me tell you something else. You have no idea how good the elites are at keeping secrets. they didn't become elites by being petty and stupid.
they control money. you guys fighting with eachother control nothing. they smart. you stupid. get it? when power over the world's money supply is at stake you'd be amazed at how well these guys work together and can keep their mouths shut. and if they don't work with them? they buy them out. if they can't buy them out they kill them (see what happend to...lincoln...mcfadden...jfk...more recently bill cooper and pretty much anyone else who effectively speaks out against the banking cartel eventually gets knocked off)

ever heard of the stealth bomber? sure you have! well when you found out about it had already been in existence for 20 years. just one small example of how the people at the top are better at keeping secrets than you could ever imagine.

bankers and other nwo types provide the funding behind the most prestigious ivy leauge colleges whom all the other colleges model themselves after and the public school system is run by the governement directly...a government that lives and dies by this debt based system and as I was trying to explain is also bought off bankers.


so don't try and tell me our schooling is not run by a pretty small group of people have have a vested interest in keeping the current system going...it won't go long if they public is educated about how their money really works.

you, for instance should spend your time studying the matter,but instead choose to stick yoru head in the sand and attack me for trying to bring it to your attention. good job "saving the west" with that attidude.


P.S. It's not as though every teacher is sat down with a banker and threatened. but they are taught by previous teachers who taught things one way and the A students become the teachers and the system perpetuates naturally.

It's absurd to think that every teacher and professor takes the information they learned from their professors and just parrots that exact information to students.  Education has had so many different forms from Montessori schools to Catholic schools to Baptist colleges to liberal arts colleges.  The idea that all the teachers and professors don't come up with their own agendas, ideas and just have some generic financial information that they give to all students is so stupid that I can't believe you'd even entertain the thought.  Every teacher comes up with their own analysis to give to students and professors also have radically different approaches to education.  Especially in the university level, discussion and new ideas are something even liberal colleges often tolerate.  Are most professors liberal?  Yes, because there are countless surveys that demonstrate this and my experience and the experience of hundreds of people I've met and talked to has proven that.  Do professors all have the same syllabus given to them by the banks, come on! Actually, every professor I've had, has been critical of many aspects of the financial system.  Look at the unbelievabley massive changes in education from the 1950's to today.  It has done a complete 180 but you again think somehow that they all are given textbooks that they just read and don't think about. 

I've heard conspiracy theories in detail for many years and looked into the specifics you mentioned.  So there are probably some world leaders who would like to extend global leadership and global agendas. I oppose this but they don't control history from Lincoln until today.  That is complete stupidity that has been disproven time and again and rigorously documented. conspiracy nuts like you disappear when the facts are presented by historians who have proof of the assassination of Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth.    You are so out of your mind that you would never dare admit you don't know something because it would show your silly take on the world has been disproven time and again.

One of the real conspiracies are for people like Alex Jones to sell books, movies and other garbage for $29.99 plus shipping and handling.  I'm not going to argue the entire history of the world with someone who questions basics of history that have tirelessly been proven time and again.  Just to recite the Lincoln assassination, takes thousands of pages by people much smarter than you or I and yet you'll switch the topic when proven wrong. 

Do your research and see a psychologist about your paranoia problem.  I don't want to pick up another book by a madman who thinks the world is flat.  I'm sure that's your next conspiracy. 

You never even talk specifics or give sources.  Just call into question the entire banking system, finance, world history, religion and then expect somone to respond in one paragraph.

Also, watch out for that probe from the aliens!