Jews at Itzhak Rabin Academy accuse themselves of committing warcrimes in Gaza.

[Ulli]

Itzhak Rabin military academy lives up to it's name:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5939611.ece


This remembers me at the bolschewist trials against the opposition in Stalinist Russia. There were all over the place this kind of self-accusations of the most absurd crimes.

In any case, this behaviour is behind sanity and reason. In a time, when the danger is so great for the simple survival of the Jewish people in Israel, this animals step their own people in the back.

[ag337]

Pheasant,

I commented on a similar thread posted earlier today by American Hero.

This topic is so irritating to me I could scream from the top of my lungs on my balcony.

As I stated in my earlier reply, when Israel was engaged in the Gazan conflict, the Israeli military and government made calls and dropped leaflets informing Gazan citizens when bombings and air strikes were going to occur so that they could have time to seek shelter.

When has a government and military ever taken such painstaking measures to insure that there are minimal civilian casualties?
The answer is a big fat NO ONE, not one country has ever done such a thing as notifying civilians of military maneuvers.

I am so over this garbage.

This would not even be an issue if the terrorist group Hamas did not fire rockets into Israel against Israeli citizens whenever they felt like it, without respect for human life

This is a non issue for me and these Israeli soldiers who are up in arms about Gazan civilian casualties are demented individuals who need to get their heads examined.  These soldiers need to get a grip.

[mord]

What can you expect from an Academy named after the alcoholic Rabin

[Zelhar]

These coward traitorous people have no place in the Jewish army. I read the testimonies they gave and it is obvious that they are cooked to make our soldiers as bad as possible. The IDF went out of its way and gave the civilians every chance to evacuate the close combat zone. Now they are also trying to condemn officers who assured their soldiers that keeping their own life takes priority than that of the enemy. The Bolshevik soldiers who now try to liable heroic IDF troops, If they actually did see action inside Gaza, I am sure they were only concerned in keeping themselves as safe as possible. I am sure these accusers were very easy on the trigger when it came to their own life.

[mord]

The Commander of drunkard Military Academy    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411476906&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter   







"But I don't identify with the rabbis' religious concerns," added Zamir. "It's weird to me that religious guys can't hug and kiss their female counterparts." 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The students at this "academy" forget that its founder committed severe war-crimes against patriotic right-wing Israeli freedom fighters in the 1940s.

[mord]

More about the leftist commander of the Alcholic Academy      http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1237461630293&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull     










The whole world is against us, goes an old Jewish joke, and now we've joined in.
An IDF soldier takes up a...

An IDF soldier takes up a position during an operation [archive - illustrative].
Photo: AP [file]
SLIDESHOW: Israel & Region | World

That witticism came to mind while reading headlines in the Hebrew press Thursday about the testimony that soldiers who took part in Operation Cast Lead in January gave at the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military preparatory course at Oranim Academic College in Kiryat Tivon in February. Dani Zamir, the head of the program, published the conversations in a newsletter sent to the course's graduates.

According to the testimony of a number of soldiers who took part in what appears to have been a group therapy session getting the war experiences off their chest, three soldiers told of cases in which civilians were killed by sniper fire, and of the wanton destruction of property.

The IDF military advocate general instructed the Criminal Investigation Division of the Military Police on Thursday to investigate the claims, and while some may dismiss the investigation as a fig leaf for the rest of the world, it isn't.

Defense Minister Ehud Barak's response to the story was telling. He said Israel is the most moral army in the world. While the country's detractors around the world would mock at that moniker, we Israelis believe it, and it is extremely important that we continue to do so.

The country fights not because it wants to, but because it has to. And since it has to, it is crucial that Israelis believe in the morality of their cause. The idea of a moral army is not important because of how we are perceived abroad, but rather for how we perceive ourselves.

This country demands a lot of sacrifice from its citizens, and people will only sacrifice if they feel that what they are sacrificing for is just and right. If the army would act in an immoral manner, it would pull the rug from under our feet, and would also deter good, decent people from either going into the army, or sending their children to fight there.

Thursday's headlines, picked up immediately by the wire services and getting wide play abroad, were "IDF killed civilians in Gaza under loose rules of engagement," and, "Testimony of soldiers who fought in Gaza: 'Cold blooded murder.'"

Obviously, everyone abroad who wants to accuse Israel of war crimes in Gaza will jump at these stories; every anti-Israel NGO will disseminate them as further proof of our evil.

What is lacking is context.

First of all, this type of testimony is legendary in Israel - there is even a phrase to describe it: yorim ve'bochim (shoot and weep). The most famous book of this genre, Siach Lochamim, came out immediately after the Six Day War in 1967, and was translated into English a few years latter under the title The Seventh Day.

The testimonials from the Rabin preparatory course have a similar feel: soldiers talking about their war experiences - what they saw, what they heard, what they felt good about, what they didn't feel good about.

It is important to note that none of the testimony was about what the soldiers did themselves, but rather of what they heard or saw other soldiers do. It is also important that what was reported seems to fall within the realm of aberrations by individuals during war against a cruel enemy hiding behind civilians, not a systematic loss by the army of its moral compass.

The second piece of context is Dani Zamir, the head of the program, who had the soldiers‚ words transcribed and published. A story in Haaretz on Thursday said that in 1990 Zamir, then a parachute company commander in the reserves, was tried and sentenced to prison for refusing to guard a ceremony where "right-wingers" brought Torah scrolls to Joseph's tomb in Nablus.

Zamir, in an interview on Israel Radio on Thursday, said that the soldiers from Operation Cast Lead who spoke at the meeting reflected an atmosphere inside the army of "contempt for, and forcefulness against, the Palestinians."

Zamir himself appears in a 2004 book titled Refusnik, Israel's Soldiers of Conscience, compiled and edited by Peretz Kidron, with a forward by Susan Sontag. The book, which earned commendation from no less a personage than Noam Chomsky, includes a section by Zamir, described as "an officer in the reserves from Kibbutz Ayelet Hashahar who was sentenced to 28 days for refusal to serve in Nablus and now heads the Kibbutz Movement's preparatory seminary for youngsters ahead of their induction in the army."

"With stupid resolve and the smugness of the all-knowing, primitive preachers and unbridled nationalists are leading and misleading us to calamity, while Pompeii is preoccupied with watching boxing matches and with banquets in advance of the disaster," he wrote.

"I see a volcano in the land where one-third of the inhabitants are banned, by dint of their national and ethnic origins and geographical location, from voting as equals, where they don't have basic civic rights and where thousands are detained under administrative decree - under a military justice system that is farcical.

"A land, a third of whose inhabitants have been subjected to extended military occupation for over 20 years - which means restrictions of rights and a different code of law for Jewish and Arab residents in the selfsame land - is not a democratic country.

"Accordingly, collaboration with a regime or government that forces or orders me to be part of an anti-democratic apparatus that leads to self-destruction, disintegration and national decay, along with the utter denial of its own foundations, is illegitimate, unjust and immoral, and will remain so as long as the state does not take one of only two feasible actions: annexation of all or most of the territories conquered in 1967 and granting full civil rights to those residing there; or withdrawal from densely populated areas and a settlement that will release us of responsibility for the residents of those areas, who will chose for themselves whatever regime they desire (of course with security arrangements included)."

That was what Zamir wrote in 1990, reprinted in 2004. The testimonies of the soldiers that he brought to the public's attention seem to corroborate - what a coincidence - his thesis.

[mord]

more on the 2 soldiers and the group they belong to              





 
            
Operation Cast Lead

Photo: AP
   Reservists in Gaza (Archives) Photo: AP
 

   
     

IDF soldiers refute claims of immoral conduct in Gaza

'It is true that in war morality can be interpreted in many different ways, and there are always a few idiots who act inappropriately, but most of the troops represented Israel honorably,' soldier says in response to claims of immoral behavior during Operation Cast Lead. Reservist: Claims 'fictitious'. 'Free Gaza' movement demands international investigation

Daniel Edelson
Published:    03.19.09, 22:09 / Israel News

IDF soldiers who took part in January's offensive in Hamas-ruled Gaza refuted on Thursday claims of immoral conduct on the military's part.

Controversial Claims
Soldiers say IDF immoral in Gaza / Roi Mandel
Two NCOs, during post-op conference in Israel, relate stories of civilians being killed during Operation Cast Lead
Full Story

 
The claims were made by soldiers who took part in the war during a post-op conference at the military academy at Oranim. The conference protocol was published Thursday.

 
"I don’t believe there were soldiers who were looking to kill (Palestinians) for no reason," said 21-year-old Givati Brigade soldier Assaf Danziger, who was lightly injured three days before the conclusion of Operation Cast Lead.

 
"What happened there was not enjoyable to anyone; we wanted it to end as soon as possible and tried to avoid contact with innocent civilians," he said.

 
According to Danziger, soldiers were given specific orders to open fire only at armed terrorists or people who posed a threat. "There were no incidents of vandalism at any of the buildings we occupied. We did only what was justified and acted out of necessity. No one shot at civilians. People walked by us freely," he recounted.

 

 

A Paratroopers Brigade soldier who also participated in the war called the claims "nonsense". Speaking on condition of anonymity, he said "It is true that in war morality can be interpreted in many different ways, and there are always a few idiots who act inappropriately, but most of the soldiers represented Israel honorably and with a high degree of morality.

 
"For instance, on three separate occasions my company commander checked soldiers' bags for stolen goods. Those who stole the smallest things, like candy, were severely punished," he said.

 
"We were forbidden from sleeping in Palestinians' beds even when we had no alternate accommodations, and we didn’t touch any of their food even after we hadn't had enough to eat for two days."

 


 

 

According to a reservist who spent a week in Gaza during the offensive, the claims of immoral behavior on the soldiers' part were "fictitious".








 
"Wherever we were we tried to cause minimum damage," said the paratrooper, who also asked to remain nameless. "We left some of the homes cleaner than they were before we occupied them. We even cleaned a refrigerator that really stunk.

 
"During one incident, we were informed that a female suicide bomber was heading in our direction, but even when women approached us and crossed a certain point we made do with firing in the air, or near the women," the soldier recalled. "Even when we came across deserted stores, we didn’t even think of taking anything. One soldier took a can of food, but he immediately returned it after everyone yelled at him."

 
Major (res.) Idan Zuaretz of Givati said "in every war there is a small percentage of problematic soldiers, but we must look at it from a broad perspective and not focus on isolated incidents."

 
Zuaretz, a company commander, also questioned the integrity of the soldiers who made the controversial claims, saying "if this was such a burning issue for them, why have they remained silent until now? On an ethical and moral level, they were obligated to stop what they claimed had occurred and not wait two months to be heard at some esoteric debate."

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According to the officer, the IDF went to great lengths and employed the most advanced technology to avoid harming civilian population.

 

"I've seen a few things in my time, but even I was blown away by the level of professionalism displayed by the army," Zuaretz said. "I personally gave my soldiers an order on the day we withdrew from Gaza to leave all of our goodies in the last house we occupied. Some reservists even left an envelope full of money to one Palestinian family."

 

Meanwhile, "Free Gaza" spokeswoman Hawida Araf told Ynet that "it is hard to say that the claims of immoral conduct are surprising," adding that an international investigative committee must be set up to probe the incidents in Gaza.

 

"Apparently some of things the soldiers had done in Gaza weighed on their conscience to such a degree that they felt compelled to make them known," she said.

 

Araf, who has organized seven sails to Gaza in defiance of the Israeli blockade, said a group of attorneys who visited the Strip following the offensive is expected to issue its report next week.

 

"We checked whether Israel violated any international laws in Gaza," she said, but admitted that the report was based on Palestinian eyewitness accounts and did not include soldiers' testimonies



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3689388,00.html

[mord]

 Who is the rodent [she's a rodent not a qurananimal because she's a Christian philistine] none other then notorious little punk bi sexuel Adam i [got hemorrhoids from yasser] Shapiro's slut i mean wife.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Shapiro   







Shapiro was born in Brooklyn, New York and brought up in a Jewish home, but he doesn't "identify as Jewish. I [Adam] see it as a religion rather than an ethnicity and, as I have no religious feelings, I don't regard myself as Jewish."[1]

Shapiro received his B.A. in political science and history from Washington University in St. Louis in 1993. He subsequently spent a year studying Arabic in Yemen after receiving his M.A. in Arab studies at Georgetown University in Washington DC. He received his M.A. in political science from New York University. Shapiro is currently pursuing a doctorate at American University in Washington.

[edit] Activism

His interest in the Palestinian cause started with his involvement with "Seeds of Peace," an organization that sought to foster dialogue between Jewish and Palestinian youth. There he met Huwaida Arraf, a Christian Palestinian American, whom he married in 2002. In 2001 they co-founded the International Solidarity Movement.[2]

[Ulli]

Major Zuaretz has a good argument. If this two dhimmis were so shocked by the "warcrimes", why they didn't interfere or rejected their orders?

[mord]

Major Zuaretz has a good argument. If this two dhimmis were so shocked by the "warcrimes", why they didn't interfere or rejected their orders?

true..that arguement was brought up against left wing movie producer Oliver stone  who said when he served in viet nam he saw war crimes another soldier said i never did see any war crimes where i served.If you saw it Mr.Stone and didn't report i claim you are just as guilty