Marriage crisis

[dawntreader]

Wasn't this supposed to be a thread on Marriage? How did the subject of black people and races get into this thread? Ah! I know. Fruit of thy loins brought his racist garbage in here.

I do believe G-d has a purpose for each different race of mankind. But that one poster was right. The Torah does not mention any "races." The Torah should be the ONLY method of judging another man or woman. Race has nothing to with anything. I really wish people would stop with that kind of talk. It is not productive in any way shape or form....

AND

It will turn off people who potentially would agree with Kahanist Political viewpoints. Like me. I somehow doubt that Rabbi Kahane would talk about Black people the way some of these posters do. I somehow doubt that race ever factors in to a Biblical Zionist world view.

And THAT is what these forums ought to be promoting and helping to achieve. Nothing less.

If you go off on tangents that are completely irrelevant to changing America and Israel for the better then what use are you to the boards?

[Yochanan Zev]

It seem that the issue of race seems to get injected into almost every discussion here.   

I don't know if it has anything to do with Rabbi Kahane ZT"L at all.  From what I know of him, he didn't hate all blacks. I got the impression that Chaim and the JTF organizers use racism to attract right-wing politically minded people to support their cause.  I don't think it's a good stategy at all because it alienates other black and latino Jews and Christian Zionists who support am Yisrael.

I don't believe that everyone here is a racist but there are at least a few here who, if not are all out racists, are overly obsessed with race.

[Fruit of thy loins]

The blonde races are babes spiritually and intellectually and need to be nurtured and cared for.

Blonde and white children are beautiful.

Black children are demons from hell.

[Fruit of thy loins]

Demons exist and can sometimes take on the appearance of human beings.

Demons frequently enter the body of negroes and cause them to commit all manner of abomination.

[dawntreader]

Are you freaking kidding me?

Fruit, you sound EXACTLY like neo-Nazi creeps who say that Jews and Jewish children are the product of devils and demons. I suppose black kids also drink blood like coolaid as they eat fried chicken right?

That's just sick. And I for one, am sick of hearing disgusting comments like that. It is NOT funny. And it DOES turn people off from wanting to visit these boards. I feel like leaving myself after hearing all the racist crap half you guys spew.

Where is Hashem in ANY of this? Where is the REAL purpose of JTF being promoted? Isn't Zionism supposed to be what JTF is all about? If not, I'll freakin go elsewhere. Somewhere people are actually serious about doing something for Israel rather than talking about it. Somewhere people are not full of hate and anger toward other races...just because their skin is a different color.

That's NOT Zionism.

[Fruit of thy loins]

Are you freaking kidding me?

Fruit, you sound EXACTLY like neo-Nazi creeps who say that Jews and Jewish children are the product of devils and demons. I suppose black kids also drink blood like coolaid as they eat fried chicken right?

That's just sick. And I for one, am sick of hearing disgusting comments like that. It is NOT funny. And it DOES turn people off from wanting to visit these boards. I feel like leaving myself after hearing all the racist crap half you guys spew.

Where is Hashem in ANY of this? Where is the REAL purpose of JTF being promoted? Isn't Zionism supposed to be what JTF is all about? If not, I'll freakin go elsewhere. Somewhere people are actually serious about doing something for Israel rather than talking about it. Somewhere people are not full of hate and anger toward other races...just because their skin is a different color.

That's NOT Zionism.

I believe the Hebrew-speaking forum concentrates solely on Israel but because the ENglish forum is also for gentiles there is a wider scope of discussion.  To be honest Zionism isn't the only thing on my mind.  There should be an ignore button here for those who are chronically intolerant.

[Fruit of thy loins]

Fruit, you sound EXACTLY like neo-Nazi creeps who say that Jews and Jewish children are the product of devils and demons. I suppose black kids also drink blood like coolaid as they eat fried chicken right?

Black men dance virility dances because it invites demons into their bodies with which they then go and seduce white women.  The demons overpower the white woman's senses and before you know it she is spread out on all fours in the bedroom with her sooty-bosomed lothario.  The white woman's free will is severely hampered by this demonic influence.  G-d Himself revels in the sight of such wickedness, because it is written, 'The L-rd - he is a man of war, the L-rd is his name.'

[Yochanan Zev]

FOTL, do you dance with da white wimmuns when you go out to the club? You should check out Old Street.

[Din Rodef]

Wasn't this supposed to be a thread on Marriage? How did the subject of black people and races get into this thread? Ah! I know. Fruit of thy loins brought his racist garbage in here.

I do believe G-d has a purpose for each different race of mankind. But that one poster was right. The Torah does not mention any "races." The Torah should be the ONLY method of judging another man or woman. Race has nothing to with anything. I really wish people would stop with that kind of talk. It is not productive in any way shape or form....

AND

It will turn off people who potentially would agree with Kahanist Political viewpoints. Like me. I somehow doubt that Rabbi Kahane would talk about Black people the way some of these posters do. I somehow doubt that race ever factors in to a Biblical Zionist world view.

And THAT is what these forums ought to be promoting and helping to achieve. Nothing less.

If you go off on tangents that are completely irrelevant to changing America and Israel for the better then what use are you to the boards?

Dawntreader

You're sharp and I like your posts

But you just don't seem to get it. Race matters. Blood matters. I you eliminate the concept of race then you also eliminate the concept of Israel. Israel is for the Israelites...the Jews. It's not for the white crusaders...it's not for the muslim Arabs. Israel is for the Jews. Race matters.

White Christian Gentiles are being assaulted by 3rd world barbarians. Our nations are being polluted with foreign races. If we don't stick up for ourselves...we will be destroyed and overrun just like Israel was destroyed 2000 years ago.

If you call White Gentiles racists...Then you better call all Zionists racists too.

I'm a White Christian American Gentile. and I want to save my country and my people just like Jewish Zionists want to save Israel.

Why is that so hard to understand?

[Din Rodef]

I believe the Hebrew-speaking forum concentrates solely on Israel but because the ENglish forum is also for gentiles there is a wider scope of discussion.  To be honest Zionism isn't the only thing on my mind.  There should be an ignore button here for those who are chronically intolerant.

This is good...because it helps to expose the hypocrisy of many Jews.

If Jews want to support Israel and if they are Zionists...then that is good...they are protecting their own people and culture.

But if White people want to protect white nations and white cultures...well then that makes them Nazis... and that is bad....Right? Isn't that what the majority of Jews really think?

This kind of hypocrisy must be exposed.

[cjd]

Wasn't this supposed to be a thread on Marriage? How did the subject of black people and races get into this thread? Ah! I know. Fruit of thy loins brought his racist garbage in here.

I do believe G-d has a purpose for each different race of mankind. But that one poster was right. The Torah does not mention any "races." The Torah should be the ONLY method of judging another man or woman. Race has nothing to with anything. I really wish people would stop with that kind of talk. It is not productive in any way shape or form....

AND

It will turn off people who potentially would agree with Kahanist Political viewpoints. Like me. I somehow doubt that Rabbi Kahane would talk about Black people the way some of these posters do. I somehow doubt that race ever factors in to a Biblical Zionist world view.

And THAT is what these forums ought to be promoting and helping to achieve. Nothing less.

If you go off on tangents that are completely irrelevant to changing America and Israel for the better then what use are you to the boards?

Dawntreader

You're sharp and I like your posts

But you just don't seem to get it. Race matters. Blood matters. I you eliminate the concept of race then you also eliminate the concept of Israel. Israel is for the Israelites...the Jews. It's not for the white crusaders...it's not for the muslim Arabs. Israel is for the Jews. Race matters.

White Christian Gentiles are being assaulted by 3rd world barbarians. Our nations are being polluted with foreign races. If we don't stick up for ourselves...we will be destroyed and overrun just like Israel was destroyed 2000 years ago.

If you call White Gentiles racists...Then you better call all Zionists racists too.

I'm a White Christian American Gentile. and I want to save my country and my people just like Jewish Zionists want to save Israel.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Din Rodef the problem with Dawntreader extreme Liberalism. Its been my experience when people talk about others being racist and in a condescending manor to boot that is usually the case.

[Din Rodef]

Din Rodef the problem with Dawntreader extreme Liberalism. Its been my experience when people talk about others being racist and in a condescending manor to boot that is usually the case.

CJD

you are 1000% right about liberals

But, I really like Dawntreader...have read many of his excellent posts...and don't think he's a liberal.

Personally, I just think he's a slightly confused Jew because he's living in America.

I believe it's difficult for Jews that live in America to fully support a White Christian Gentile America because that would mean they don't really belong here. So many Jews attempt to "have it both ways"...they attempt to prove that they are good Jews by supporting Zionism and Israel...but then they attempt to justify their Jewish presence in America by supporting multi-culturalism and multi-racialism.

This confusion can easily be cured by making Aliyah. Chaim talks about this all of the time. He says that Jews aren't "whole" until they're living in the land of Israel.

 

[Lisa]

I believe it's difficult for Jews that live in America to fully support a White Christian Gentile America because that would mean they don't really belong here. So many Jews attempt to "have it both ways"...they attempt to prove that they are good Jews by supporting Zionism and Israel...but then they attempt to justify their Jewish presence in America by supporting multi-culturalism and multi-racialism.

This confusion can easily be cured by making Aliyah. Chaim talks about this all of the time. He says that Jews aren't "whole" until they're living in the land of Israel.

So how would that explain all the sick self hating Arabist Jews in Israel, several of whom are college professors, who teach that Israel is evil.  Or what about Ehud Olmert's sick left wing lesbian daughter, who Chaim said protested against the Jews, chanting "long live the intifada."  Then there's Olmert's wife who is the head of the group "Women in Black" which harasses the IDF.  And there's many many more of them. 

Unfortunately, being in Israel doesn't make Jews any less wacko or self hating. 

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...This kind of hypocrisy must be exposed..."

Chief Sitting Bull agrees.

ALL but Red Man will leave, or die!

[Din Rodef]

Re:  "...This kind of hypocrisy must be exposed..."

Chief Sitting Bull agrees.

ALL but Red Man will leave, or die!

That's you're clever little way of calling me a redneck for defending my own country and people.

Notice...that you just took the side of America's pagan enemy?

Your little statement confirms what I already knew...that you don't truly identify with the White Christian Gentile majority of America. This is not unique to MassuhD...In fact, it is a trait that most Jews living in America possess (Chaim excluded). That is why American Jews must move to Israel.

Chaim says it all the time. Hashem commands it. Jews must return to Israel.

[dawntreader]

Well, I have to say thank you to Din Rodef.

I am certainly not a liberal. I also am not (At least not completely) multi-cultural.

But here is the rub....

1. The The U.S.A. although founded by English colonies has long had a tradition of allowing peoples from all over the world to immigrate to this nation. Before the English colonies rebelled against England and became the USA, North America had Spanish, French and English colonists yes? But before THEM North America had an indigenous (Don't know if I spelled that right) population...the Native American tribes (Some of whom were less Asiatic in appearance such as the Cherokee who look pretty Caucasian) but regardless...

For those who think that the USA is a nation for White Anglo Saxon Protestants...I think you fail to remember those people who were here first...and the fact that there has always been immigration (I'm talking legal...not illegal here...immigration by peoples of different nationalities.)

The USA has never once been a country of just White people. It truly is a melting pot. There is no other nation like it. Most other European nations, or Asian nations or Middle Eastern nations...really have their foundations on ethnic groups that claimed particular tracts of land.

The USA is not like that.

Also, for me...as I've tried to explain before, the real issue is mankind's behavior. I believe what the Tanach has to say, and I believe that G-d cares less for someone's race than He does for their hearts and minds.

For those that say as Din Rodef did, that Israel is for the Jews...well in this he is right. But it doesn't have to do altogether with race. Sure, we have a bloodline...but we've had gentiles convert to Judaism throughout time and they've mixed in. And I guarentee if G-d got very angry with us because NO one was following Him...he could wipe us all out...and tomorrow raise up for Himself a new group of people to call his own. This very day, He could raise up Jews from the dust of the Earth.

He could do the same to any nation on Earth. He could wipe out all Negros, all White people etc. and tomorrow create a new nation of people with the same features but with new hearts and new minds.

For those who don't believe that races should mix...well and good. I don't have a big argument for you there. But I don't believe it's a sin.

The reason G-d told the Jews not to marry gentiles was because Gentiles often serve other gods...and it is a temptation for the Jew who marries a Gentile to leave HaShem and serve other gods. But if that Gentile serves HaShem? Look at Ruth and Boaz in the Bible.

I believe it is wrong to dislike someone because they are different physically. There is no question, there is no doubt, that I am right in this. The Torah never mentions race.

If people believe that blacks should go back to Africa, and that Jews should go back to Israel (Which I have to admit I think that Israel is our home) then every person of German descent should remove himself from the USA and go back to Germany. Every person of English descent, Irish Descent, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, French and Spanish descent should remove themselves from the USA and back to Europe.

The USA would then be back in the hands of the Native Americans.

And if you want to split hairs, then Germans should not marry Englishmen. Englishmen should not marry Irish women. The French should not marry a Greek. No one should marry outside their very own ethnic and language group. Because not even all White people share the same ancestry.

Do you see how silly this is?

Not one hair of it is based on the Tanach or G-d's will for mankind.

[cjd]

Re:  "...This kind of hypocrisy must be exposed..."

Chief Sitting Bull agrees.

ALL but Red Man will leave, or die!

What!!  And leave all this to the Injuns? Lets not get nuts here.

[Din Rodef]

So how would that explain all the sick self hating Arabist Jews in Israel, several of whom are college professors, who teach that Israel is evil.  Or what about Ehud Olmert's sick left wing lesbian daughter, who Chaim said protested against the Jews, chanting "long live the intifada."  Then there's Olmert's wife who is the head of the group "Women in Black" which harasses the IDF.  And there's many many more of them. 

Unfortunately, being in Israel doesn't make Jews any less wacko or self hating. 

You're right about everything you just posted...but I'm not talking about Jews in Israel...I'm talking about Jews in the United States

[dawntreader]

I just thought of this as well.

While I would personally like to see a Christian USA...and when I say Christian, I mean a USA that actually follows what Jesus taught and was not some pagan monstrosity like Catholicism...

Christianity itself does not limit itself to white people. I think Jesus himself wanted Christianity to be spread to anyone who would listen to the gospel and accept it.

So to me, it doesn't matter if the Gentiles in the USA are red, white or blue...as long as they are Christian and are trying to follow the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...I'm good.

But we all know that not even all White people are real Christians. There's plenty who are Christians but in name only. (Same as in any religion.)

[Fruit of thy loins]

dawntreader, I feel that you already know this, but I say it again anyway: almost the whole of the Bible is a coded document which requires exegesis and interpretation to understand.  You say the Bible does not talk about race.  That is sophistry.  It does not talk about a lot of things if you require that it mention them directly by their modern, scientific names.  Much of the prophecy is veiled and allegorical.  It would be a mercy if people didn't read the Bible rather than take it literally at face value.

[Din Rodef]

Well, I have to say thank you to Din Rodef.

I am certainly not a liberal. I also am not (At least not completely) multi-cultural.

But here is the rub....

1. The The U.S.A. although founded by English colonies has long had a tradition of allowing peoples from all over the world to immigrate to this nation. Before the English colonies rebelled against England and became the USA, North America had Spanish, French and English colonists yes? But before THEM North America had an indigenous (Don't know if I spelled that right) population...the Native American tribes (Some of whom were less Asiatic in appearance such as the Cherokee who look pretty Caucasian) but regardless...

For those who think that the USA is a nation for White Anglo Saxon Protestants...I think you fail to remember those people who were here first...and the fact that there has always been immigration (I'm talking legal...not illegal here...immigration by peoples of different nationalities.)

The USA has never once been a country of just White people. It truly is a melting pot. There is no other nation like it. Most other European nations, or Asian nations or Middle Eastern nations...really have their foundations on ethnic groups that claimed particular tracts of land.

The USA is not like that.

Also, for me...as I've tried to explain before, the real issue is mankind's behavior. I believe what the Tanach has to say, and I believe that G-d cares less for someone's race than He does for their hearts and minds.

For those that say as Din Rodef did, that Israel is for the Jews...well in this he is right. But it doesn't have to do altogether with race. Sure, we have a bloodline...but we've had gentiles convert to Judaism throughout time and they've mixed in. And I guarentee if G-d got very angry with us because NO one was following Him...he could wipe us all out...and tomorrow raise up for Himself a new group of people to call his own. This very day, He could raise up Jews from the dust of the Earth.

He could do the same to any nation on Earth. He could wipe out all Negros, all White people etc. and tomorrow create a new nation of people with the same features but with new hearts and new minds.

For those who don't believe that races should mix...well and good. I don't have a big argument for you there. But I don't believe it's a sin.

The reason G-d told the Jews not to marry gentiles was because Gentiles often serve other gods...and it is a temptation for the Jew who marries a Gentile to leave HaShem and serve other gods. But if that Gentile serves HaShem? Look at Ruth and Boaz in the Bible.

I believe it is wrong to dislike someone because they are different physically. There is no question, there is no doubt, that I am right in this. The Torah never mentions race.

If people believe that blacks should go back to Africa, and that Jews should go back to Israel (Which I have to admit I think that Israel is our home) then every person of German descent should remove himself from the USA and go back to Germany. Every person of English descent, Irish Descent, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, French and Spanish descent should remove themselves from the USA and back to Europe.

The USA would then be back in the hands of the Native Americans.

And if you want to split hairs, then Germans should not marry Englishmen. Englishmen should not marry Irish women. The French should not marry a Greek. No one should marry outside their very own ethnic and language group. Because not even all White people share the same ancestry.

Do you see how silly this is?

Not one hair of it is based on the Tanach or G-d's will for mankind.

Dawntreader....I could have read your mind and  written your post for you

According to you...America is anarchy...in fact America doesn't really exist at all...it's just a place anybody can come to and do anything they want with it...You just described Hell...or the Utopia of a New World Order

I know that we have a disagreement that cannot be resolved.

If Americans were to adopt your point of view then we will cease to exist as a nation.

You're telling us that there is nothing special about us...we are not a unique people...we do not have a specific national origin...we do not have a unique history and perspective...we do not have our own language and identity....we have no right to claim anything as our own...Everybody can be Americans until America doesn't mean anything anymore....you're actually telling me that it's un-American to actually be an American.

That is exactly what the whole world is telling the Jews in Israel. What you just said to me...is exactly what the whole world is saying to Israel.  

[Din Rodef]

I just thought of this as well.

While I would personally like to see a Christian USA...and when I say Christian, I mean a USA that actually follows what Jesus taught and was not some pagan monstrosity like Catholicism...

Christianity itself does not limit itself to white people. I think Jesus himself wanted Christianity to be spread to anyone who would listen to the gospel and accept it.

So to me, it doesn't matter if the Gentiles in the USA are red, white or blue...as long as they are Christian and are trying to follow the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...I'm good.

But we all know that not even all White people are real Christians. There's plenty who are Christians but in name only. (Same as in any religion.)

Anybody can be a Christian

But anybody didn't make America.

America was founded specifically by White European Christian Gentiles and maintained (until recently) by their White European Christian Gentile posterity.

[cjd]

I just thought of this as well.

While I would personally like to see a Christian USA...and when I say Christian, I mean a USA that actually follows what Jesus taught and was not some pagan monstrosity like Catholicism...

Christianity itself does not limit itself to white people. I think Jesus himself wanted Christianity to be spread to anyone who would listen to the gospel and accept it.

So to me, it doesn't matter if the Gentiles in the USA are red, white or blue...as long as they are Christian and are trying to follow the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...I'm good.

But we all know that not even all White people are real Christians. There's plenty who are Christians but in name only. (Same as in any religion.)

Great, a Liberal Catholic basher who wants to give America  to the Indians. Does it get any better? That should help the JTF cause.

[dawntreader]

Dawntreader....I could have read your mind and  written your post for you

According to you...America is anarchy...in fact America doesn't really exist at all...it's just a place anybody can come to and do anything they want with it...You just described Hell...or the Utopia of a New World Order

I know that we have a disagreement that cannot be resolved.

If Americans were to adopt your point of view then we will cease to exist as a nation.

You're telling us that there is nothing special about us...we are not a unique people...we do not have a specific national origin...we do not have a unique history and perspective...we do not have our own language and identity....we have no right to claim anything as our own...Everybody can be Americans until America doesn't mean anything anymore....you're actually telling me that it's un-American to actually be an American.

That is exactly what the whole world is telling the Jews in Israel. What you just said to me...is exactly what the whole world is saying to Israel. 

Din Rodef,

I don't truly understand why what I mentioned would be the end of America. I am not for ANY kind of illegal immigration to the USA whatsoever. I think every single illegal should be deported.

But the U.S.A. has always had legal immigration. What is wrong with that? And if it is orderly, how is that Anarchy?

I do believe that there is something special about the U.S.A. and that it IS special because of the principles the founding Fathers used when writing the United States Constitution and Declaration of Independence.

The ideals of the U.S.A. are what makes this country unique and different from any others. The USA SHOULD maintain a Christian identity...that's what most of the founders were in fact. And I believe English should be the language of the USA. But it came very close to being German. In fact we all speak English because of one vote!

These things were all things that were at the beginning of this great nation, and I think those characteristics should not change.

I will agree to disagree with you on the matters of race. Because I think you are essentially a good guy. (And you don't accuse me of being a liberal...WHICH I AM NOT A LIBERAL WHATSOEVER!)

However, I do have one last thing to say and then I'll say no more on this thread about this issue.

If The USA were to adhere to your dream of being White and Christian...and all the negros and Jews (Even though Jews by and large are caucasian...even the black Jews) and all the Hispanics (who didn't come from Europe's Spain), and all the Asians were to leave...what would a White Christian America do with the Native Americans who were here first?

Let them stay? Deport them all to some remote island? How would you ensure a real...White Christian America?

I think it's a moot issue. I personally believe that the Moshiach will come before the world's problems are solved. He will be the one to settle every dispute and what He says will be the law for everyone.

[Lisa]

Dawntreader, before the 1965 Immigration Act, America always had a strict immigration policy.  It was never really a melting pot.  Here are some examples:

1875 For the first time, a federal immigration law excluded certain groups of immigrants: Prostitutes, persons previously sentenced to jail in their homeland, and “involuntarily traveling orientals,” by which was meant primarily Chinese contract workers, derogatorily called “Coolies.”

1885 Upon the urging of American labor unions, the import of contract laborers [with contracts in hand before immigration] was forbidden. Domestic servants, doctors and certain hard-to-get workers were exempted.

1891 Excluded from immigration were criminals, the mentally ill, epileptics and people who were not capable of earning their own living. For the first time, every immigrant had to pay a head tax of fifty cents. This fee was raised to $2.00 in 1903 and to $4.00 in 1907.

1896 A literacy test in the immigrant’s native language passed Congress but was vetoed by President Cleveland.

1903 Anarchists, pimps, and prostitutes were barred from immigration. American immigration officials were dispatched to European harbors to inspect ships and passengers before departure.

1907 Under American pressure, the Japanese government made a gentlemen’s agreement not to issue any more sailing permits for Japanese workers.

1913 The California legislature limited the right of Japanese immigrants to acquire land.

1913 A literacy test for immigration failed due to President Taft’s veto.

1915 A literacy test failed again due to President Wilson’s veto.

1917 A literacy test for immigrants over 16 years passed the Senate and the House with a 2/3 majority.

1918 Excluded from immigration were proponents of the violent overthrow of the American government.

1920 Citizens of countries with which the United States was at war could be deported.

1921 The first quota law was passed. It limited the annual number of immigrants to a total of 357,803, permitting about 200,000 from northwestern Europe (including Germany), and about 155,000 from eastern and southern Europe. For the whole of Asia and Africa, only 1,000 visas were available.

Then there was the 1924 National Origins Act, where the number of immigrants coming from a certain European country had to correspond the percentage of specific European Americans already in the U.S. 

Here's what John Jay had to say in the Federalist Papers:

In 1787, in the second of The Federalist Papers, John Jay gave thanks that “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people, a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs . . . .” This is not a celebration of “diversity” or of the melting pot.