Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Who is a Jew? - Some insight from Rebbetzen Chana Bracha Siegelbaum
Moshe92:
--- Quote from: Dúnadan on August 12, 2009, 01:13:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 11, 2009, 05:33:39 PM ---DunDan doesn't know what he is talking about here... There has been a lot of genetic proof that Ashkenazic Jews have genetic traces of the Kohen gene which is present in all descendents of the original Israelites.
What this fool is saying is pure antisemitic propaganda along the lines of the "Jews are Khazars" myth...
--- End quote ---
Antisemitic propaganda made by three Jews named Koestler, Wexler and Kriwakzek? Even when Koestler literally means "The Khazar", you doubt that at least some Jews are descended from Khazaria?
Who cares about genes? It proved to be excrement, that "Kohen gene" is present in non-Jewish populations too and genes change with aging.
--- End quote ---
Those people are self-hating Jews. Their ideas are anti-semitic.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dúnadan on August 12, 2009, 01:13:59 PM --- and genes change with aging.
--- End quote ---
LOL, BS. You clearly know nothing about genetics. What you've written here is a gross distortion. And don't start your lying bs about "oh but some genes do get damaged in aging" yadda yadda yadda, I know what you're referring to but to present it as you did is a massive distortion. Games played by the ignorant to confuse other ignorant....
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dúnadan on August 11, 2009, 05:08:05 PM ---Ok, that's true and I understand.
But still: what would you say if you start researching ancestry and you find out that your great great grandmother bu your mkother side was not Jewish? Would you be Jewish then?
--- End quote ---
No. Then you wouldn't be. Despite what you might have thought. But this rarely if ever happens. Jewish ancestry is pretty consistent. It is only the last handful of generations where intermarriage has become so rampant, and coinciding with that, Jews have become delusional about who is born a Jew and who isn't. We never thought that way. We used to know what marriage produces a Jewish child and what one does not. They didn't 'fight the rabbis' over that or create new religions like Reform/Deform Judaism. They just left the fold.
--- Quote ---What if a Rabbi discovers that?
--- End quote ---
Whether you yourself discover it or your rabbi, or a doctor or a garbage man, the truth is the truth.
--- Quote ---It's not that I want to burst your bubble or be considered a Jew, but I know about Jewish ethnic makeup, and especially about Ashkenazis, and most of the Yiddish Jews are descended from
--- End quote ---
Is there a point to anything you're saying? Jews lived in Eastern Europe in a variety of places and "ethnicity" was not kept entirely distinct. This happened in every diaspora in every location, not just to Ashkenazim.
--- Quote ---Jews are totally Russian.
--- End quote ---
No, they aren't.
--- Quote --- And I bet that at least some Jews can find a non-Jewish ancestor by their maternal side (I mean the mother of the mother, etc).
--- End quote ---
Most who can go back a few generations cannot find such a thing and that's because in the vast majority of cases, it does not exist. You can't find something (a non-Jewish ancestor by maternal side) that does not exist. But Jews back then were smart. They KNEW that if they married a non Jewish woman, their kid is not Jewish. They didn't play pretend or try to distort Judaism like some do today because they feel guilty about disconnecting themselves from the line of Jewish tradition. Jews were rather insular, not only did they prefer to marry Jewish, most goyim (and their religions) did not allow them to intermarry or refused to marry Jews.
--- Quote ---And as for Jews living in Israel, a good deal of Jews, especially Americans, say that real Jews are only the diasporic ones (which is nonsense in my opinion, but maybe it actually has a religious source, I don't know).
--- End quote ---
You say something arbitrary with no fact behind it, so I'll reply with something equally arbitrary, but at least partially truthful, unlike in your case. Most Jews, especially French Jews say that the only real Jews are those who have a Jewish mother or converted, and that Jews in Israel have made a great self-sacrifice to merit the land of Israel. Ok... Why exactly should I care what you think most American Jews think (they don't think that, btw). And who cares what I think French Jews think?
--- Quote ---By the way, do you then believe that Israel's policy (only one Jewish grandparent to enter Israel) is wrong and that it should be replaces by having a Jewish mother?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dúnadan on August 11, 2009, 05:22:12 PM ---
--- Quote from: Moshe92 on August 11, 2009, 05:12:59 PM ---I do believe that Israel's policy is wrong regarding who is a Jew. A Jew is someone who has a Jewish mother or has undergone an Orthodox conversion. Ashkenazi Jews and all other Jews are descended from the ancient Israelites, not Slavic tribes or Khazars or any other groups.
--- End quote ---
Here I disagree with you, the first time maybe. As Arthur Koestler, Paul Kriwakzek and Paul Wexler proved,
--- End quote ---
No, they didn't prove. The academic consensus is overwhelmingly against them. You don't honestly believe they proved or else you are just intellectually lazy and refuse to look at the work that refutes them. If you don't honestly believe it but type it here anyway to mislead people, you're a liar and propagandist.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dúnadan on August 12, 2009, 01:13:59 PM ---
Antisemitic propaganda made by three Jews named Koestler, Wexler and Kriwakzek? Even when Koestler literally means "The Khazar", you doubt that at least some Jews are descended from Khazaria?
Who cares about genes? It proved to be excrement,
--- End quote ---
Now you are completely mixed up in your lies. On the one hand you want to say the hell with genetics and throw science out the window because it's too consistent with truth for you to handle. On the other hand, you want to say that koestler et al scientifically "proved" descent of the Jews from some tribe..... LOL: And how exactly does one PROVE DESCENT without consulting genetics, considering genetic studies or genetic inheritance? Magic ancestor voodoo? LOL. You're a clown.
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