Are you offended that i consider jews as white???

[Dr. Dan]

Nothing wrong with that. However the majority of Jews in the workd, I think, are tan colored and look middle eastern. Hiwever racially, most are causecoid-caucasion semetic. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi knew that the king of the Khazars wanted to convert all his people to Judaism, which is forbidden, and wanted to prevent it. Mass conversions are not welcome in Judaism becuase there is no chance that all people in such group sincerely believe that Judaism is the truth. They either seek some benefit or they are forced to do so, such motives make the conversion phony and invalid.  Khazars didn't truly convert to Judaism, they didn't become Jews.   

While I agree with most of your quote here, historically speaking I don't think the part in bold is true.   It is apparent that the Khazar officials imported talmidei chachamim to spread rabbinic Judaism, and such Jews also were already a minority group prior to the conversion event.   This kingdom (post conversion) had correspondance with other talmidei chachamim in other areas.

Of course there were some Khazars who truly converted to Judaism, but I mean Khazars as people. The Khazarian people as a whole did not become Jewish.

Right, and certainly these people after the conquest of the empire by the Rus people, whatever survivors surely dropped the religion if they were never sincere in the first place.   In any case, some of the scholars indicate that the conversion itself was mainly among the high officer class.   There of course remained christian and muslim (and possibly some pagan) subgroups within the empire after it took on general "Jewish" alignment.   

[rhayat1]

Much to debate here and I've got to get to work soon, but I'll start with this:

"Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi knew that the king of the Khazars wanted to convert all his people to Judaism, which is forbidden, and wanted to prevent it. Mass conversions are not welcome in Judaism becuase there is no chance that all people in such group sincerely believe that Judaism is the truth. They either seek some benefit or they are forced to do so, such motives make the conversion phony and invalid. Khazars didn't truly convert to Judaism, they didn't become Jews."

Your argument is based upon an incorrect context.  R. Yehudha haLlewi never spoke to the king of the Khazars and he probably never even visited Khazaria.  He was simply using the story as a background to present his own opinions about Torah and Jews.  You may DISAGREE with him on this, but it makes no sense to claim that what he writes was directed at Khazars.  It was written in Arabic, which the Khazars did not understand.  The wikipedia article gets it right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuzari

As for Ribbi 'Aqiva, what I wrote is not just something I picked out of thin air; it's based on what Hazal said.  I'll have to look up the source(s) for you; I don't have it here in front of me.  Of course, his status as the son of gerim had no impact on his authority in Torah.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

As for Ribbi 'Aqiva, what I wrote is not just something I picked out of thin air; it's based on what Hazal said.  I'll have to look up the source(s) for you; I don't have it here in front of me.  Of course, his status as the son of gerim had no impact on his authority in Torah.

All you said was "not on the same level" - So I refuted that.  You can't make general statements like that without context and full explanation.  As a general statement it's completely wrong.  And especially given the deoraissa commandment to love the ger and the many prohibitions against abusing a ger, we should be extra careful about making ill-advised, ill-informed, or otherwise generally incorrect/vague statements with regards to the status of gerim.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Much to debate here and I've got to get to work soon, but I'll start with this:

"Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi knew that the king of the Khazars wanted to convert all his people to Judaism, which is forbidden, and wanted to prevent it. Mass conversions are not welcome in Judaism becuase there is no chance that all people in such group sincerely believe that Judaism is the truth. They either seek some benefit or they are forced to do so, such motives make the conversion phony and invalid. Khazars didn't truly convert to Judaism, they didn't become Jews."

Your argument is based upon an incorrect context.  R. Yehudha haLlewi never spoke to the king of the Khazars and he probably never even visited Khazaria.  He was simply using the story as a background to present his own opinions about Torah and Jews.  You may DISAGREE with him on this, but it makes no sense to claim that what he writes was directed at Khazars.  It was written in Arabic, which the Khazars did not understand.  The wikipedia article gets it right:

Of course Rabbi Yehudah HaLewi was not depicting what actually took place, he merely wrote a Jewish text based on the style of a discussion and based on the known historical fact of a khazar king/kingdom who held a dispute of some kind and then chose Judaism.   It is not farfetched to think that similar discussions took place in the leadup to the decision of the Khazar king, but certainly Rabbi HaLewi is writing well after this event historically took place.  It's a rhetorical or chinnuch technique.   Yet he accurately summarizes all of Jewish hashkafa with this text.

But even as we know this, it is quite reasonable if Spectator means to say that Rabbi HaLewi was expressing with this text his view that mass conversions should not be done.  Perfectly logical.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Please cite where in the Kuzari this particular quote occurs, as I do not remember it from when I learned this text.   I did not actually get thru the entire work so perhaps it was a section I did not get to yet.

[AsheDina]

I couldnt care less, as long as I am not ugly

[Spectator]

Much to debate here and I've got to get to work soon, but I'll start with this:

"Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi knew that the king of the Khazars wanted to convert all his people to Judaism, which is forbidden, and wanted to prevent it. Mass conversions are not welcome in Judaism becuase there is no chance that all people in such group sincerely believe that Judaism is the truth. They either seek some benefit or they are forced to do so, such motives make the conversion phony and invalid. Khazars didn't truly convert to Judaism, they didn't become Jews."

Your argument is based upon an incorrect context.  R. Yehudha haLlewi never spoke to the king of the Khazars and he probably never even visited Khazaria.  He was simply using the story as a background to present his own opinions about Torah and Jews.  You may DISAGREE with him on this, but it makes no sense to claim that what he writes was directed at Khazars.  It was written in Arabic, which the Khazars did not understand.  The wikipedia article gets it right:

Of course Rabbi Yehudah HaLewi was not depicting what actually took place, he merely wrote a Jewish text based on the style of a discussion and based on the known historical fact of a khazar king/kingdom who held a dispute of some kind and then chose Judaism.   It is not farfetched to think that similar discussions took place in the leadup to the decision of the Khazar king, but certainly Rabbi HaLewi is writing well after this event historically took place.  It's a rhetorical or chinnuch technique.   Yet he accurately summarizes all of Jewish hashkafa with this text.

But even as we know this, it is quite reasonable if Spectator means to say that Rabbi HaLewi was expressing with this text his view that mass conversions should not be done.  Perfectly logical.

You are right, I meant to say namely that. Sometimes the words of the rabbis are allegorical to better illustrate some ideas. rhayat1 brought some quote in an attempt to prove that converts are a second class, I told him that the same quote must have said something different.

rhayat1, are you arguing with yourself?

In the old days, this distinction was taken very seriously - to the point where R. Yehudha haLlewi, in haKkuzari, tells the king of the Khazars that though he may convert, he will always remain a second class citizen among real Jews.

 

[Zelhar]

My response to the original poster is I don't take offense yet it is factually incorrect to state that "Jews are white". Some are white, most are white depending how you define white of course. I mean most Jews have fair skin but don't have "Aryan" look.