Author Topic: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League  (Read 1570 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2284
  • "The Necromancers Could Not Stand Before Moses."
I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« on: February 18, 2010, 12:41:26 PM »
Quote
Hello JDL Members and Supporters,

There are three important topics in this February 15, 2010 list message:

1) This is a reminder of the Los Angeles area event (specifically in Long Beach) against the WBC next Friday, the 19th at 1pm at the Long Beach JCC. We only refer to the WBC by its initials because to recognize it as a church would be insulting to churches, but you may have heard of them - they're the homosexual hating and also Jew-hating "god hates fags" cretins who go around the country holding marginal protests (even at funerals of war heroes) to spread their hateful message against homosexuals, Jews, tolerant Christians and essentially anyone else who disagrees with their twisted, ignorant take on Christianity. We urge all members and supporters in the area to be there, so please let us know if you plan to attend.

Considering homosexuals are abominations in our God's eyes... what's the issue for a Jew here?  They ALSO don't like Jews?  God does hate gays, he is clear about it in Torah.  Perhaps someone should delve into Torah instead of maintaining a false Jewish veneer.

What atrocity to see Rabbi Kahane's work dragged through the mud.

Add to this that homosexuals are VERY anti-Jewish on Facebook alone...  the JIDF [Jewish Internet Defense Force] has done a marvelous job of highlighting this little/unknown fact. - It makes sense for a gay to hate God/Torah because of it's clarity on homosexual behavior.  Drag queens are also very anti-Judaism, which is also not a surprise.

I was interested in defending Jews and Shuls... sorry to have wasted my time and energy knowing these traitors to Torah and Rav Kahane [may his blood be avenged a thousand-fold].
"You must keep the arab under your boot or he will be at your throat" -Unknown

"When we tell the Arab, ‘Come, I want to help you and see to your needs,’ he doesn’t look at us like gentlemen. He sees weakness and then the wolf shows what he can do.” - Maimonides

 “I am all peace, but when I speak, they are for war.” -Psalms 120:7

"The difference between a Jewish liberal and a Jewish conservative is that when a Jewish liberal walks out of the Holocaust Museum, he feels, "This shows why we need to have more tolerance and multiculturalism." The Jewish conservative feels, "We should have killed a lot more Nazis, and sooner."" - Philip Klein

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2010, 01:47:24 PM »
Jtf makes much more sense with their message because there is a true torah link to what we believe in. The jdl contradicts itself in so many ways
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline White Israelite

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4535
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2010, 02:27:05 PM »
If you have watched the recent videos of Shelly Rubin and the JDL on youtube, she acts exactly like the liberals do, she goes around waving signs and using a megaphone yelling all these slurs and blasting siren noises over her loudspeaker. Reminds me exactly what leftists would do at their protests. It's embarrasing.

Offline Secularbeliever

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2010, 02:53:08 PM »
Quote
Hello JDL Members and Supporters,

There are three important topics in this February 15, 2010 list message:

1) This is a reminder of the Los Angeles area event (specifically in Long Beach) against the WBC next Friday, the 19th at 1pm at the Long Beach JCC. We only refer to the WBC by its initials because to recognize it as a church would be insulting to churches, but you may have heard of them - they're the homosexual hating and also Jew-hating "G-d hates fags" cretins who go around the country holding marginal protests (even at funerals of war heroes) to spread their hateful message against homosexuals, Jews, tolerant Christians and essentially anyone else who disagrees with their twisted, ignorant take on Christianity. We urge all members and supporters in the area to be there, so please let us know if you plan to attend.

Considering homosexuals are abominations in our G-d's eyes... what's the issue for a Jew here?  They ALSO don't like Jews?  G-d does hate gays, he is clear about it in Torah.  Perhaps someone should delve into Torah instead of maintaining a false Jewish veneer.

What atrocity to see Rabbi Kahane's work dragged through the mud.

Add to this that homosexuals are VERY anti-Jewish on Facebook alone...  the JIDF [Jewish Internet Defense Force] has done a marvelous job of highlighting this little/unknown fact. - It makes sense for a gay to hate G-d/Torah because of it's clarity on homosexual behavior.  Drag queens are also very anti-Judaism, which is also not a surprise.

I was interested in defending Jews and Shuls... sorry to have wasted my time and energy knowing these traitors to Torah and Rav Kahane [may his blood be avenged a thousand-fold].<<<<

The fact that this group has staged protests at the funerals of soldiers killed in action is despicable by itself.  I see no reason that the gay issue needs to be raised unless Shelly Rubin and JDL see a future in gay support.  It does seem that homosexuals should support Israel and Jews.  I am furious when I hear them bash Israel knowing how they would be treated by so called Palestinians.  Let them check the gay bar scene in Gaza.

That said, I don't think there is any real answer to the issue of homosexuals.  I have relatives and family friends who are gay and I can say with great confidence the people I know did not choose the preference, in fact they spent years trying to convince themselves they were straight.   Conversion will work only for the most marginally homosexual people and if you advocate it, ask yourself if you really would want your sister or daughter to marry a converted homosexual knowing there is a good chance they will revert back and leave your sister or daughter devastated. 

On the other hand, I think homosexuality is not a good thing.  Gay men are the only educated white men in urban areas who still smoke.  They abuse drugs, have ridiculous numbers of sexual partners and are extremely immature.  Despite all protestation to the contrary (which in and of itself tells you something) they are not happy people.  I don't think religion has a real answer to the issue and I don't think the people who advocate on their behalf for recognition of their lifestyle have an answer.  I don't know that there is an answer.
We all need to pray for Barack Obama, may the Lord provide him a safe move back to Chicago in January 2,013.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2010, 03:28:55 PM »
From the religious standpoint the gay must be able to control his animal desires. This is the basic belief in the free will of humanity. Nobody is controlled entirely by their animal desires. Everyone struggles with these desires and everyone must be able to control them. If a person is out of control concerning his animal desires he is no better than a dog, or a pig.

Every human being has the ability to deny themselves from things that they desire. The gay sexual preference has no constructive purpose aside from selfish indulgence. It doesn't have any outcome other than pleasure for those involved. Besides the act being disgusting and offensive to anyone with any semblance of intellect, it is an abomination before our G-d.

As I say many times before, it is also an affront to Hashem when a Jew doesn't observe the Shabbat. Both the desecration of the Sabbath and Gay sex have the same divine punishment, which is the death penalty. In our day we don't have a court system which can carry it out, but I believe that the gay has sentenced him/herself to death by their life choice.

Everything in life is about choices. Every second of our lives we make choices, some of them turn out for the good, while others turn out for the bad.

I recommend all those who suffer from same sex attraction to consider what they are doing to themselves and those around them. The Drug addict also thinks that he is born this way, so does the kleptomaniac, even those who suffer with anger management can claim that they were born that way. To be a real human being, a Mensche, one must be in control of his base desires.

One of the pillars of Jewish belief is that Humanity is made in the image of G-d... We all have freewill to choose {within a certain amount of degrees} from good or evil...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Secularbeliever

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2010, 03:56:28 PM »
Both the desecration of the Sabbath and Gay sex have the same divine punishment, which is the death penalty. In our day we don't have a court system which can carry it out, <<

Would you want a judicial system that puts people to death for sins such as desecrating Shabbat?
We all need to pray for Barack Obama, may the Lord provide him a safe move back to Chicago in January 2,013.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2010, 04:01:19 PM »
Both the desecration of the Sabbath and Gay sex have the same divine punishment, which is the death penalty. In our day we don't have a court system which can carry it out, <<

Would you want a judicial system that puts people to death for sins such as desecrating Shabbat?

We will have such a system when the era of Moshiach arrives. I am Shabbat observant and I urge all Jews to start observing Shabbat, with all of its facets.

The Jewish people are nurtured by the Sabbath. The Sabbath has kept the Jewish people more than the Jewish people have kept the Sabbath. Our sages say that if all the Jews would keep the Sabbath for two Sabbaths, all together, that we could bring the Messiah.

Jews are killing themselves, spiritually, by not observing the Sabbath...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2010, 04:03:10 PM »
From OU :

http://www.ou.org/publications/kaplan/shabbat/why.htm

Why the Sabbath?

There is a miracle in Shabbos.

Even if you have never felt it yourself, it is there. It is one of the most important ingredients of Jewish survival.

It is no exaggeration to say that the Jew has survived two thousand years of persecution and humilitation largely because he had the Sabbath. It was one factor that not only made him survive, but kept him alive, both spiritually and morally. 1

Without the Sabbath, the Jew would have vanished. It has been said that as much as the Jew has kept Shabbos, so has Shabbos kept the Jew.

As long as Judaism exists as a vibrant, vital force, the Sabbath is its most outstanding ritual practice.

In order to understand this, you would have to experience a true traditional Shabbos. You would see a change take place, almost like magic. Take the poorest Jew, the most wretched person, and the Sabbath transforms him, as if by a miracle into a man of dignity and pride. He might be a beggar all week long, but on this one day, he is a true king.

There are hundreds of thousands of Jews who keep the Sabbath, with the number growing every year. To understand what Shabbos means, you must live it with them.

I remember once spending Shabbos with a poor working man in Williamsburg. He was a simple but pious man who did not have very much in the way of worldly goods. Seeing his cramped, dreary apartment, you might have pitied him, but at his Shabbos table, he sat like a king.

He made a remark that has remained with me all these years. "I pity people who don't keep Shabbos. I really pity them. They don't know what they are missing. They have no idea at all."

There is a Sabbath prayer that reads. "Rejoice in your kingdom, you who keep the Sabbath." The miracle of Shabbos is the kingdom of every Jew.

There is a miracle in the Sabbath.

Let us look into it more deeply.

...

For the Jew, belief in G-d is more than a mere creed or catechism. It is the basis of all meaning in life, for if the world does not have a creator, then what possible meaning can there be in existence! Man becomes nothing more than a complex physiochemical process, no more important than an ant or a grain of sand. Morality becomes a matter of convenience, or "might makes right". It is the belief in G-d that gives life purpose and meaning. It is also what gives us a standard of right and wrong. If we know that G-d created the world, and did so for a purpose, then we also realize that everything that furthers this purpose is "good," and everything that runs counter to this purpose is "evil."

The essence of Judaism is purpose and morality. One who does not actively believe in G-d as creator of the universe, divorces himself from these two most basic values. He therefore, casts himself outside of Judaism.

This also explains the reason Sabbath violation incurs the death penalty. For life itself involves purpose. A purposeless life is, in reality, no life at all. In a sense, therefore, one who does not keep the Sabbath is not really considered alive in the first place. The existence of the death penalty in such a case is not a mere vindication, but the confirmation of an already existent situation.

In a positive sense, the Sabbath is the focus of Jewish belief.

Once each week, the Jew spends a day reinforcing his belief in G-d. As long as Jews keep the Sabbath, G-d remains an integral force in their lives. Their faith is like a rock, and nothing can shake it. All the waves of persecution and prejudice break before this rock of faith. With this belief, they not only survive, they flourish.

For one day each week, the Jew can see himself in G-d's eye, and before G-d, every man is a king.

This is as true today as always. Many of our leaders bewail the decline of Judaism. But this decline is only to be found where the Sabbath is neglected. Among the community of Sabbath observers, Judaism is the same living and vital force that it always was.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline JTFenthusiast2

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2828
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2010, 05:28:55 PM »
Guys, Lately the G-d hates Fags people have been targeting Jews specifically.  They routinely protest outside synagogues, berate people leaving and entering including children.  Their headquarters were firebombed in the 90s and unfortunately they didn't all die.  Yes, they hate gays, but they have turned their attention on Jews and soldiers. Besides it is a moral wrong to berate the parents of dead gay men at these men's funerals.  It's wrong to make these bereaved parents feel worse than they already do, and for what point???

That aside, even if you wish every homosexual dead, there is still very good reason for you to show up and protest against these lunatics, they call rabbis sodomites and murderers, and invoke age old stories of how Jews murdered Jesus.  Please go to ask JTF a few weeks back where I asked Chaim a question about Fred Phelps and G-d Hates Fags for the links to their profoundly anti-semitic theology.

And as Secular Believer said, being gay is not a choice for 99 percent of gay people.  Most of us absolutely wish we had been born straight and a minority of us choose not to act on the impulse for many reasons.  But to say a gay person chooses to be attracted to the same gender is very ignorant.  Most of us spent many years filled with horror at the desires we had and had no one to talk to about it.  Think about it, if you were in the same position and knew it was wrong and knew people would hate you for it, how would you manage that?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 05:48:50 PM by JTFenthusiast2 »

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2010, 05:34:14 PM »
I don't think most gay people consciously choose to be gay because it doesn't make sense to me that they would. Why would someone willingly take on a burden like that? It's either genetic, psychological, or a combination of both, but I don't think it's a conscious choice for most of them. I do think it's a conscious choice what people DO, but not necessarily how they feel.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2010, 05:49:14 PM »
I don't think most gay people consciously choose to be gay because it doesn't make sense to me that they would. Why would someone willingly take on a burden like that? It's either genetic, psychological, or a combination of both, but I don't think it's a conscious choice for most of them. I do think it's a conscious choice what people DO, but not necessarily how they feel.

Hashem commanded the Jews to love their neighbor as they love themselves... It is important for a Jew to love himself before he is able to love others. The Torah also commands us to honor our mothers and fathers, and not necessarily love them... It is also vital that a Jew honors his parents for if he is unable to honor his/her parents he/she is unable to have a relationship with Hashem, who is the father of all humanity. The Torah also commands us to not covet what our neighbor has. This is an emotion which Hashem has commanded us not to engage in. The Torah sets very high standards for humanity and it is possible to live up to them.

Hashem judges mankind based on the decisions he/she makes in life. While we are born with certain limitations we must work hard to overcome those limits. Some are born with disabilities, some with mental problems, and some with sexual issues. But everyone is born imperfect and incomplete. The whole purpose of life, according to Torah, is to rectify the sins which were committed by our collective Jewish souls. Nobody has an easy ride... Some are given riches and wealth and must be judged on how they handle their riches. Others are born poor and destitute, and they must work to live a righteous life also. Some are born with a predisposition for drug addiction, and those people must work to perfect themselves.

So I do not think that it is right to give gays a free pass and say that they can engage in behavior which is against Hashem. The Jewish perspective on homosexuality is different from the Christian one. We don't believe that the person who engages in the sin is unforgiveablle. If the person regrets what he has done and repents, he will be forgiven. Only the actual act of homosexual intercourse is considered a sin. Nowhere in Torah does it say that one who has a emotional or physical attraction to the same sex is a sinner. Only when a man lays with another man, as if he was a woman, is it considered an abomination.

This being said I agree that this Phelps Church is an abomination. I have always stood against these creeps and I think that they do more to desecrate the name of G-d than anything else.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 06:01:11 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2010, 05:50:50 PM »
http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/rav/rav09.htm

LECTURE #9: Catharsis of the Emotions

 After discussing the need for and method of purification of the physical realm of man's existence, the Rav moves next in his essay "Catharsis" to consider the purification of the emotional realm. While catharsis of the former requires that man refrain from certain acts, catharsis of the latter demands that he change his innermost feelings. As the Gemara tells us (Sanhedrin 106b), "G-d wants the heart."

"[T]he Halakha thinks there is an ethic, not only of action, but of feeling, as well. Man is master over his own emotional world, capable of disowning feelings or emotions, however compulsive or powerful, if they seem to be disruptive; and, conversely, of assimilating redemptive emotion into his personality." (p. 47)

In other words, because our feelings are such an important part of us, and because they affect us so deeply, it is crucial that we exert control over them, that we shape and direct them in a positive fashion, and that we integrate them into our service of G-d. In fact, as we shall see in this lecture and the next, the Rav believes that a person's main arena of religious struggle lies precisely within the internal-emotional realm.

COMMANDING EMOTIONS

Although the assumption that one can be master over his emotional world may seem foreign to modern man, it lies at the basis of many halakhot. While many mitzvot regulate man's actions, e.g. the commandment to eat matza or the prohibition of theft, some mitzvot seem to address themselves directly to man's emotions, e.g. "You shall love the Lord your G-d" (Devarim 6:5), "You shall not hate your brother in your heart" (Vayikra 19:17), and "You shall not desire your neighbor's house..." (Devarim 5:18 - see "For Further Reference," #1). This corresponds to the famous distinction first posited by Rabbenu Bachya ben Yosef ibn Pakuda between chovot ha-evarim and chovot ha-levavot, duties of the limbs and duties of the heart.

The obvious question presents itself: how can a person be expected to control his feelings? Can he help it, for example, if he is jealous of someone richer than he is? Strikingly, few of our sages actually ask this question. They seem to take it for granted that since one's emotions are a matter of halakhic concern, it is clear that one can and should exert control over them.

One of the few Rishonim to deal with the question, the 12th-century Bible commentator Rav Avraham ibn Ezra, suggests that one can control his emotions through an intellectual effort, i.e. through internalizing the laws of Halakha.

"I will offer you a parable. Know that a peasant of sound mind who beholds a beautiful princess will not desire in his heart to lie with her, for this cannot be. [Recall that he is writing in the context of a feudal society.] ... Similarly, a wise person knows that all wealth ... comes from G-d; therefore, he will not desire that which G-d has not given him. Additionally, since he knows that it is G-d who has forbidden his neighbor's wife to him, she will be even more exalted in his eyes than the princess in the eyes of the peasant." (Shemot 20:13)

The unstated opinion of most Rishonim, however, is presented forcefully by the anonymous 13th-century classic, Sefer Ha-chinnukh:

"Do not wonder and ask: But how can it be in one's power to restrain his heart from longing for riches that he may see in his fellow man's possession, when he himself is lacking them all? How can a prohibition be given in the Torah about something which man cannot possibly obey?

"This matter is not so; none but wicked fools... would speak so. For it is indeed in one's power to restrain himself, his thoughts and his longings, from whatever he wishes. It lies within his free choice and his decision to repel his desire or draw it near, with regard to all matters, as he wishes; and his heart is given over into his control; however he pleases, he may turn it... There is nothing so good for a man as a good, pure thought, since that is the beginning of all good deeds and their end. And this, as it seems, is the significance of the 'good heart' which the Sages praise in Avot (2:9)." (Mitzva 416; 424 in R. Chavel's edition)

As opposed to ibn Ezra's theory of intellectual persuasion, the Chinukh seems to think that controlling emotion is simply a matter of sheer willpower and force of habit.

ACTION AND FULFILLMENT

Aside from the "duties of the limbs" and the "duties of the heart," there is a third hybrid category of mitzvot. The Rav was the first to define this category in strict halakhic terms, and he devoted much attention to it. In this category, although the Halakha demands the performance of a certain external action, the mitzva is actually fulfilled through an internal experience. In "lomdish" parlance, the Rav termed this the duality of ma'aseh and kiyyum (act and fulfillment).

Often, ma'aseh and kiyyum go together: for example, one fulfills the mitzva of eating matza simply by ingesting it, regardless of his inner awareness of the liberation from Egypt. However, the Rav focuses our attention on cases where the act and the fulfillment exist on two different planes (both, however, are necessary for proper fulfillment of the mitzva). For example, the mitzva of prayer consists of reciting certain words (ma'aseh), but its essence (kiyyum) is "the service of the heart," the experience of standing before G-d and the feelings of gratitude and dependence. Similarly, the Torah tells us to recite the words of Keriat Shema twice daily, but the mitzva's true fulfillment consists in the accompanying kabbalat ol malkhut Shamayim (acceptance of the yoke of G-d's kingship). It is interesting that, in "Catharsis," the Rav draws his examples of purging the emotional realm from this category of mitzvot. [We shall return to this important group of commandments in next week's lecture.]

MOURNING AND JOY

The Rav's first illustration of emotional catharsis is G-d's command to Aharon not to mourn the deaths of his two sons. On the day on which the Mishkan (Tabernacle) was to have been dedicated, the greatest day of Aharon's life, his sons Nadav and Avihu were suddenly struck down by a divine fire. Since Aharon, the High Priest, was wholly consecrated to divine service, he had to continue fulfilling his duties despite his personal tragedy. Aharon was not permitted the basic human right to mourn; he had to deny one of man's most powerful emotions, the love for a child.

[Note that while Aharon's sense of mission as a representative of the people overcame his personal sorrow, the People of Israel performed the opposite gesture. They overcame their feelings of communal joy at the dedication of the Mishkan and mourned for the tragedy of the individual. "And Moshe spoke to Aharon and to his sons Elazar and Itamar, saying: 'Do not bare your heads and do not rend your clothes ... But your kinsmen, the entire House of Israel, shall bewail the burning that the Lord has wrought'" (Vayikra 10:6; see Ramban and Chizkuni ad loc.). In other words, the individual must sometimes overcome his personal interests and instead dedicate himself to the community, while the community must feel the pain of each individual. The Rav, however, focuses here on dedication to G-d, not to the community.]

Of course, G-d does not demand total commitment only from the high priest, but from the entire "nation of priests" (i.e. the Jewish People) as well. As an example, the Rav cites a common situation which is actually very similar to the predicament Aharon found himself in. When major holidays fall during one's "shiva" mourning period, they cancel the mourning. This does not entail merely a change of clothes or other superficial differences; it somehow demands of the mourner that he forsake grief in favor of joy. Neither the halakhic laws of mourning nor the command to "rejoice in your festivals... and you shall have nothing but joy" (Devarim 16:14-15) refer solely to external actions. As the Rav puts it:

"[Mourning] is an inner experience of black despair, of complete existential failure, of the absurdity of being... Similarly, the precept of rejoicing on a holiday ... [refers] to an all-penetrating depth-experience of spiritual joy, serenity and peace of mind deriving from faith and the awareness of G-d's presence." (pp. 48-49)

[I highly recommend that you see the rest of the passage where the Rav so beautifully describes these experiences. It is clear that one cannot write like this unless he has experienced these feelings himself.]

If mourning (avelut) and holiday rejoicing (simchat yom tov) were merely external observances, or if one were internal and one external, then perhaps we could have found some way for them to coexist. But since they are both primarily internal fulfillments, one must prevail over the other since they are mutually contradictory experiences.

In his halakhic discourses, the Rav develops at length this theory of the internal kiyyum of both avelut and simchat yom tov. These are contrasted to the rabbinic mitzva of honoring and enjoying Shabbat (kibbud ve-oneg), whose content is exhausted by external actions. Because the mitzva of kibbud ve-oneg does not mandate an internal kiyyum, Shabbat does not cancel avelut. Rather, on Shabbat one does not manifest his mourning publicly but nevertheless continues certain practices of mourning in private. [See "For Further Reference," #3.]

DISCIPLINE AND FEELING

Rav Soloveitchik is aware that catharsis of the emotions is very demanding, and he does not hide this fact. Facing the situation realistically, he displays uncharacteristic hesitance and diffidence in assessing the capacity of modern man to attain emotional catharsis:

"Is it possible? As far as modern man is concerned I would dare not answer. But with respect to Biblical man we read that Aaron acted in accord with the divine instruction." (p. 48)

"Can one replace the experience of monstrosity (avelut) with the feeling of highest meaningfulness (simchat yom tov)? I have no right to judge. However, I know of people who attempted to perform this greatest of all miracles." (p. 49)

 

[Among the latter, the Rav may have had in mind his grandfather, Rav Eliyahu Feinstein of Pruzhan. Rav Soloveitchik writes in "Halakhic Man" of his grandfather's presence of mind when, while his beloved daughter was about to die, he remembered to lay tefillin of Rabbenu Tam prior to becoming an onen (one whose relative has died but not yet been buried, who is exempt from performing mitzvot). We will return to discuss this incident when we study "Halakhic Man."]

 

In this realm, the Halakha seems more intrusive than in any other. What are more intimate and personal than one's feelings? Rav Soloveitchik himself admits that "The Halakha, which at times can be very tender, understanding and accommodating, may, on other occasions, act like a disciplinarian demanding obedience" (p. 49).

 

But it is important to remember that the Halakha is not demanding that we quash all feeling. It wants us to feel, to experience the gamut of human emotions, the joys and sorrows of life. The Ramban states this strongly in the introduction to his masterpiece on avelut, Torat Ha-adam, where he polemicizes against those who adopt a stance of philosophic apathy towards the world. But, while we feel deeply, our emotions must be shaped and guided by the law and must remain within our control. The Torah wants to purify our emotions and to redeem us by means of our emotions.

 
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline JTFenthusiast2

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2828
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2010, 05:55:00 PM »
Muman, you have always been very nice and helpful to me, always willing to explain some aspect of Jewish learning that I do not yet understand.  I did not mean to come off harshly to you.  I'm sorry if I did.  These people truly have turned their attention on Jews.  I am not just saying that.  Recently they created a video where they dressed up as rabbis and were fighting over a penny, singing a sick version of Hava Nagila with their own twisted biblical verses.  In this same video they showed posters of anal intercourse and then signage saying "Jews love fag sex."  Or " fag synagogue"  Really vile signage that would make a normal person want to buy a gun and use them for target practice (not that anyone should do this)

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2010, 06:02:51 PM »
Muman, you have always been very nice and helpful to me, always willing to explain some aspect of Jewish learning that I do not yet understand.  I did not mean to come off harshly to you.  I'm sorry if I did.  These people truly have turned their attention on Jews.  I am not just saying that.  Recently they created a video where they dressed up as rabbis and were fighting over a penny, singing a sick version of Hava Nagila with their own twisted biblical verses.  In this same video they showed posters of anal intercourse and then signage saying "Jews love fag sex."  Or " fag synagogue"  Really vile signage that would make a normal person want to buy a gun and use them for target practice (not that anyone should do this)

JTFEnthusiast2,

I know about it and as I said above, I think that what they are doing is a complete desecration of the name of G-d. The church that they run is a Church of Hatred. Their destruction will come about from their own action.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
Re: I am done wasting my time with the modern Jewish Defense League
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2010, 08:39:00 PM »
Quote
So I do not think that it is right to give gays a free pass and say that they can engage in behavior which is against Hashem. The Jewish perspective on homosexuality is different from the Christian one. We don't believe that the person who engages in the sin is unforgiveablle. If the person regrets what he has done and repents, he will be forgiven. Only the actual act of homosexual intercourse is considered a sin. Nowhere in Torah does it say that one who has a emotional or physical attraction to the same sex is a sinner. Only when a man lays with another man, as if he was a woman, is it considered an abomination.

I don't think it's a sin for them to have these temptations in their life but I do think it's a sin to act on them. As you mentioned before in your post everyone has different challenges that they must face and different tests in life that they must pass. I completely agree with you that we need to show compassion for gay people but not condone homosexual behavior.