Crazy Neuterai Karta urging Palestinian state (video)

[White Israelite]

How can he say that Jews lived in peace with muslims for thousands of years? Is there a bigger oxymoron?

[muman613]

How can he say that Jews lived in peace with muslims for thousands of years? Is there a bigger oxymoron?

Jews did live in 'relative' peace as Dhimmis in many Islamic countries... The Jews certainly were treated better by the Muslims than the Christians who were killing Jews left and right... So relatively the Jews lived peacefully in Islamic countries... Compared to living in Christian countries...

http://www.jewishmag.com/57mag/dhimmi/dhimmi.htm

[muman613]

http://www.aish.com/jl/h/48949566.html

JIHAD

At the time of Mohammed's death in 632, Arabia was united and poised for jihad, the "holy war" or "holy struggle" to bring the world to Allah. Shortly, it moved with a fearsome power against the Byzantine and Persian empires.

What did that mean for the Jews?

Answers Rabbi Berel Wein in Echoes of Glory (p. 299):

    "Most Jewish historians (until the recent revisionist-historians) are convinced that the Byzantine Church would have attempted to eradicated Judaism totally if the Church itself had not been defeated and its plan for hegemony in Asia Minor and the Mediterranean basin thwarted by the rising tide of Islam. Thus the coming of Islam may be seen as a providential occurrence that allowed the Jews to slip between the cracks Islam made in Byzantine Church persecution. However, as is the case in all historic 'gifts' in Jewish history, the rise of Islam would prove to be only a mixed blessing for Israel."

Jews were classified as ahl al-dhimma, "protected people," and were allowed to live in Islamic countries without being forced to convert. But a whole code of law applied to them, most of it designed to set them apart, humiliate and emphasize their inferior status.

For example, a Jew could never have his head higher than a Muslim. So if a Jew was walking along, and a Muslim passed by, the Jew had to step into the gutter in deference to the Muslim's superior status. A Jew could never testify against a Muslim in court (which basically meant there was no justice for Jews). A Jew could not have a house of worship that was higher than a mosque, which is why (for example) the Four Sephardic Synagogues in the Old City of Jerusalem are subterranean. It should be noted that throughout history some of these laws were not uniformly enforced, and there were periods of time when Jews living in Muslim countries were openly persecuted and others when they were treated very well.

Next we are going to look at one important Jewish community, which at least for a time, flourished under Muslim domination.

[Zionist Revolutionary]

How can he say that Jews lived in peace with muslims for thousands of years? Is there a bigger oxymoron?

Jews did live in 'relative' peace as Dhimmis in many Islamic countries... The Jews certainly were treated better by the Muslims than the Christians who were killing Jews left and right... So relatively the Jews lived peacefully in Islamic countries... Compared to living in Christian countries...

http://www.jewishmag.com/57mag/dhimmi/dhimmi.htm

Untrue, Muman. Jews had to flee Muslim Spain for Christian Spain when the Muslim Berber Dynasty - the Almohades took over. They were given the option of converting to Islam, or death. In fact, Maimonides himself was one of the people who fled Muslim Spain at this time.

Jewish life under Muslims was directly proportional to the knowledge the Muslim rulers had of the Koran: that is, the more they knew about the Koran, the more they persecuted the Jews.

[muman613]

How can he say that Jews lived in peace with muslims for thousands of years? Is there a bigger oxymoron?

Jews did live in 'relative' peace as Dhimmis in many Islamic countries... The Jews certainly were treated better by the Muslims than the Christians who were killing Jews left and right... So relatively the Jews lived peacefully in Islamic countries... Compared to living in Christian countries...

http://www.jewishmag.com/57mag/dhimmi/dhimmi.htm

Untrue, Muman. Jews had to flee Muslim Spain for Christian Spain when the Muslim Berber Dynasty - the Almohades took over. They were given the option of converting to Islam, or death. In fact, Maimonides himself was one of the people who fled Muslim Spain at this time.

Jewish life under Muslims was directly proportional to the knowledge the Muslim rulers had of the Koran: that is, the more they knew about the Koran, the more they persecuted the Jews.

Come on man... Spain was the source of the Inquisition, more Jews were killed in the Inquisition than any Muslim regime...

Read about RAMBAM:

http://www.campsci.com/iguide/rambam.htm

he Rambam , Rabbeinu  Moshe ben Maimon,  was born on Erev Pesach which fell on Shabbos in the year 1135 in the city of Cordova, which lies in southern Spain.
He came from a family of great Torah scholars that extended back to Rabbeinu Ha'Kodosh who as we know came from the royal family of Dovid Ha'melech.
He studied under his great father, though he sometimes refers to the Ri Migash as his Rebbe (even though he was only six years old when the Ri Migash passed away).
He lived during a very painful and tragic time for Spanish Jewry. The Almohads, a fanatical group of Moslems, were taking over city after city. They hated all other religions and tried to convert the Jews to accept the Moslem religion. Those who refused to convert were expelled from the land or put to death. While most Jews fled, some unfortunately converted outwardly, but inwardly still kept to their Jewish faith.
The Rambam's family, as well as thousands of others, fled from Cordova and wandered from place to place seeking a place free from persecution-no easy matter in those difficult times. Finally the family settled in Fez, Morocco which was the ancient capital of North Africa. While even here Jews could not practice their religion in public places, they could at least practice it in their private homes. Certain noted people like the Maimon family were in fact granted the special privilege of being allowed to practice their religion in public.
Despite the many difficulties in life and the constant wandering, nothing could deter him from Torah study. As a young man of only twenty three, he already began writing an explanation on the Shisha Sidrei Mishnah which he called the Sefer Ha'Orah, but which has become known as the Pirush Ha'Mishnah L'Rambam, and it took him seven years to complete. He wrote it in Arabic so that the Jewish masses would be able to understand it. It was only later that it was translated by others into Hebrew. Not only does he explain every mishnah clearly and precisely, but he also tells us the halachah we are to follow.

http://www.aish.com/jl/h/48950501.html

As the armies of Islam conquered larger and larger swaths of Europe, the Jews of the Middle East saw new opportunities opening up for them in Muslim Europe.

One of the best opportunities proved to be Spain, starting with the Muslim conquest of 711. Indeed, things were so good for Jews there, that to this day, half the Jewish world is known as Sephardi meaning "Spanish." (The other half would later become known as Ashkenazi, meaning "German.") (1)

In the Muslim Spain, Jews found a symbiotic relationship emerging between them and the non-Jewish world that surrounded them.

So for one thing, the Muslims impacted on the Jews. Some of the greatest Jewish scholars wrote in Arabic. But the impact was much greater the other way around. Indeed there can be no question that the Islamic world, especially in Spain, did remarkably well because of the large number of Jews who were allowed to operate freely there. The positive impact of the Jews of Moslem Spain is yet another example of the fulfillment of the prophecy in Genesis: "I will bless you and make your name great. You shall be a blessing. And I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. (Genesis 12:2-3) To quote the great Jewish historian Cecil Roth:

...

    *  Jews excelled in skilled crafts.
      Jews were excellent tanners, metalworkers, goldsmiths, silversmiths, and jewelers. (We see some of these skills surviving today. Yemenite Jews continue their reputation as silversmiths and Jewish diamond merchants are famous the world over.)
    * Jews excelled in the sciences, particularly in medicine.
      Jewish doctors were everywhere, among the most famous was Maimonides (who we will speak about later) and Hasdai ibn Shaprut, the 10th century physician to two caliphs who was considered one of the most influential people in Spain.
    * Jews excelled in trade.
      Jews were the middlemen between the Muslim and Christian worlds, which at this time were engaged in huge rivalry and were not communicating directly with each other. As a result Jews became traders who covered the Far East, the Middle East, and Europe.
    * Jews excelled in scholarship.
      The Muslims were fascinated by classical knowledge, but since they did not know either Greek or Latin, the Jews came in to fill the gap translating these works into Arabic. The Jews also helped to disseminate Arabic scholarship and much of the classical scholarship of the ancient world (much of which had been lost after the collapse of the Roman Empire) to Christian Europe translating Arabic texts first into Hebrew, then sending these translated texts to Europe, where other Jews translated the Hebrew into Latin -- the language of the Roman Empire that was still the language of scholarship in Western Europe.

[muman613]

Let me clarify something... I hate Islam as much as the next guy, more than the next guy. I also am not suggesting that life for the Jews was ideal under dhimmitude... No doubt it was horrible. But the world was very horrible to the Jews for so many 100s of years, and I am so very grateful that I am fortunate to be a Jew in the 5700s. I am also very fortunate to have been born to a Jewish family in the United States, in the 60s, and I have amassed much blessing... As I said to my mother last week I hope to find myself in Israel by the end of my life...

[Zionist Revolutionary]

Come on man... Spain was the source of the Inquisition, more Jews were killed in the Inquisition than any Muslim regime...

I didn't say the Inquisition didn't happen. I'm saying that the idea that Muslims were nicer to Jews in the past than Christians is incorrect. They were just as bad. But once more, they were following their religion when they were persecuting the Jews, and thats a distinction thats important for understanding the events. The Christians had to be completely ignorant of their religion and the Bible to do the terrible things they did. And they were.

[muman613]

Come on man... Spain was the source of the Inquisition, more Jews were killed in the Inquisition than any Muslim regime...

I didn't say the Inquisition didn't happen. I'm saying that the idea that Muslims were nicer to Jews in the past than Christians is incorrect. They were just as bad. But once more, they were following their religion when they were persecuting the Jews, and thats a distinction thats important for understanding the events. The Christians had to be completely ignorant of their religion and the Bible to do the terrible things they did. And they were.

I beg to differ with you on the roots of Christian antisemitism... I believe it comes from the NT, but I do not want to discuss it here...

[White Israelite]

Come on man... Spain was the source of the Inquisition, more Jews were killed in the Inquisition than any Muslim regime...

I didn't say the Inquisition didn't happen. I'm saying that the idea that Muslims were nicer to Jews in the past than Christians is incorrect. They were just as bad. But once more, they were following their religion when they were persecuting the Jews, and thats a distinction thats important for understanding the events. The Christians had to be completely ignorant of their religion and the Bible to do the terrible things they did. And they were.

Actually I think those were primarily Catholics.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Actually Maimonides' fled from the Almohades, NOT the inquisition.  BUT, I agree with Muman's opinion on this general subject