Author Topic: The movie "Pi"  (Read 545 times)

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Offline Dr. Dan

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The movie "Pi"
« on: April 19, 2010, 03:57:06 PM »
This is a question directed specifically to Muman, who is the expert amongst us who understands this stuff, but for anyone else here who has seen it, what did you think of the movie and the Jewish connotation to it?
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Offline muman613

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Re: The movie "Pi"
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 04:08:45 PM »
This is a question directed specifically to Muman, who is the expert amongst us who understands this stuff, but for anyone else here who has seen it, what did you think of the movie and the Jewish connotation to it?

I am not familiar with this movie... I will look into it...



I found this synopsis @ Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(film)

Quote
In the course of his work, Max begins making stock predictions based on Euclid's calculations. In the middle of printing out the picks, Euclid suddenly crashes, but first spits out a 216-digit number that appears to be nothing more than a random string, as well as a single pick at one-tenth its current value. Disgusted, Max tosses out the printout of the number. The next morning, Max checks the financial pages and sees that the few picks Euclid made before crashing were accurate following a huge tech stock plunge. He searches desperately for the printout but cannot find it. Other than a woman living on his block who sometimes speaks to him, the only social interaction Max seems to have is with Sol Robeson (Mark Margolis), his old mathematics mentor, who regards Max as his prize student. He sympathizes with Max about the loss of Euclid but becomes unnerved when Max mentions the string of numbers, asking if the string was 216 digits long. When Max questions him about the string, Sol indicates that he came across such a number many years ago. He urges Max to slow down and try taking a break.

At a coffee shop, Max meets Lenny Meyer (Ben Shenkman), a Hasidic Jew who coincidentally does mathematical research on the Torah. Lenny demonstrates some simple Gematria, the correspondence of the Hebrew alphabet to numbers, to Max and explains how some people believe that the Torah is a string of numbers that form a code sent by G-d. Max takes an interest when he realizes that some of the number concepts Lenny discusses are similar to other mathematical concepts, such as the Fibonacci Sequence. Max eventually decides to abandon working on the stock market and assist Lenny.

Max is also being pursued by agents of a Wall Street firm that, while not specified directly, may have criminal connections, who are interested in his work for financial reasons. One of the agents, Marcy Dawson, offers Max a powerful new computer chip called "Ming Mecca" in exchange for the results of his work, which Max accepts.

From my quick reading of the movie plot synopsis it seems that this movie is based on the premise that everything in the universe can be reduced to a single complex mathematical calculation or a sequence of repeating, non-ending numbers {such as the constant PI}....

From what I understand of Jewish belief this is not really possible. Hashem is not a calculation or a number... Hashem is beyond numbers and beyond calculation. Aside from this simple understanding I cannot explain any more...

While it is true a lot of Torah wisdom can be extracted via Gematria {numerical values assigned to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet} and there is a study called Torah codes.... I don't believe that these codes can truly be used to tell the future...



I will see if I can find a copy of this movie... From the synopsis it does seem interesting...

I have never heard of a 216 letter name of Hashem... Some say the entire Torah is a name of G-d, and there is a thing known as the 72 letter name.. There is also a 42 letter name...

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/379845/jewish/Damages-with-Supernal-Culprits.htm

Quote
The word for "destroyer" [maveh] alludes to two names [of G-d]: the 42-letter Name and the Name of 72.

The 42-letter name is found in the initials of the liturgical poem Ana B'koach. (Siddur Tehillat Hashem, p. 22)

The "Name of 72" is the name Havayah spelled out such that its numerical value is 72:

yud-vav-dalet, hei-yud, vav-yud-vav, hei-yud = (10 + 6 +4) + (5 + 10) + (6 + 10 + 6) + (5 + 10) = 72.

Maveh: mem-beit-ayin-hei = 40 + 2 + 70 + 5 = 42 + 75.

The discrepancy between 75 and 72 is now explained:


I just realized that 3 * 72 = 216 ( I wonder if this is christological )




Well the wiki page answers that question:

Quote

Kabbalah and π
   This section may contain original research. Please improve it by verifying the claims made and adding references. Statements consisting only of original research may be removed. More details may be available on the talk page. (February 2008)

The 216-letter name of G-d sought by the characters of the film is known as the Shem ha-Meforash or the Explicit Name. It comes from Exodus 14:19-21. Each of these three verses is composed of seventy-two letters in the original Hebrew. If one writes the three verses in boustrophedon form — one above the other, the first from right to left, the second from left to right, and the third from right to left — one gets seventy-two columns of three-letter names of G-d. The seventy-two names are divided into four columns of eighteen names each. Each of the four columns represents one of the four letters of the Tetragrammaton.

The actual name of G-d is merely represented by the Tetragrammaton (Hashem or Hashem); the true name of G-d has been lost to time. It was the true name of G-d that was intoned in the temple three times during the singular day of Yom Kippur, as referenced in the film. The Tetragrammaton, however, is only a representation of that which is unpronounceable. The common, but mistaken, pronunciation of Hashem as Hashem or Yaweh comes from attempts of early biblical scholars to translate the Tetragrammaton.

In addition, it would be highly unlikely that the Hebrew Shem ha-Meforash would translate into 216 digits in a decimal system for several reasons:

    * There is no zero in Hebrew numerals.
    * The Hebrew number system is non-positional.
    * Most Hebrew letters correspond to two-digit or three-digit numbers.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 04:25:40 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

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Re: The movie "Pi"
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 04:39:28 PM »
I remember I liked the movie when I saw it. Very atmospheric.

Offline muman613

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Re: The movie "Pi"
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 03:21:20 AM »
I just watched this movie this evening...

All I have to say is..... WOW!

It is very interesting and there are many things which I understand and many things I dont quite understand about this movie. I will probrobly have to watch it again later this week {maybe on Sunday}...

I don't quite understand why there was that sticky goo in the computer after it crashed. I also don't quite understand why he was so paranoid. In the story of the movie it would have made the best sense for him to give over the number to the Rabbi, but because he was so paranoid he did not trust them. This makes me believe that the Rabbis were right and he was not prepared to understand the meaning of the 216-digit 'name'.

Also it made me think that even if it was the name of G-d as they want you to believe, a name is only a handle by which we understand our relationship with the object named. Even the 216-letter name of G-d does not provide the answer to all of the questions of creation. I am a firm believer in the concept of freewill and this would prevent the world from being locked-into a sequence of events. The basic idea of Teshuva, or repentance, allows us to change the past and thereby we change the future. Teshuva is a system which transcends nature.

I also believe that we should not try to see patterns like this, being able to predict the stock market, etc... I believe that there is a random element in creation and there are so many variables in life that we do not understand how one action causes many re-actions. I am sure that there are branches of science which attempt to quantify these events but I firmly believe that there is always an unknown.

In the movie I believe this concept was revealed with the ants... The ants which were bugging his computer and he was about to squash just when the phone stopped ringing. I thought at that moment he should have realized that life is precious and he should use the power of the 216-digit name for good. Imagine if the predictive powers as the movie implied he was developing could be used to save people. If it could be used to predict earthquakes and tornadoes, and other natural disasters.

I don't really know what the final message of the movie is... It leaves many questions... Not as many as the movie Eraserhead though..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: The movie "Pi"
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 05:35:13 AM »
For some reason I thought by knowing Gd's name and all the predictions was like seeing His face. And by seeing His "face" would mean death since no one can live once the "face" of Gd can be seen.

Secondly, whenever those numbers showed up, it was right before the death of something (the computer, the ant, the old mathmatician).

Another lesson of the movie based on the ending was that to know Gd through nature and random miracles day to day instead of knowing Him through numbers and trying to predict when He causes things to die was better.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein