A 100% Haredi world by 2060: the future is "Black"!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

WI,

What kind of BS are you spouting now?

Chabad and Breslov both dress in the Haredi style and they are very pro-zionist... Please don't speak Lashon Hara against such righteous Jews as Chabad or Breslov, thank you..

Where did he put down Chabad and Breslov?

[muman613]

WI,

What kind of BS are you spouting now?

Chabad and Breslov both dress in the Haredi style and they are very pro-zionist... Please don't speak Lashon Hara against such righteous Jews as Chabad or Breslov, thank you..

Where did he put down Chabad and Breslov?

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,46762.msg446694.html#msg446694

100 percent agreed, no one in my family ever dressed like that nor did any of my relatives. I've had proselytes that began dressing that way say that I need to be more Jewish and dress like them, I told them "I don't know too many Sephardic Jews that dress this way". I associate that style of dress with anti-zionists and neuterai karta. I will never dress that way. I would prefer to wear ancient Israelite clothing.

Chabad Rabbi

Breslov Rabbi

[muman613]

Here is the picture of one of my Rabbis Rabbis, Rabbi Shalom Arush is the Rosh Yeshiva of Chut Shel Chesed in Jerusalem, is the spiritual leader of a branch of Breslov Chassidus and Rabbi Lazer Brodys personal Rabbi..

[Dr. Dan]

Wonga, very interesting observation about Israeli allowing non Jewish "Jews" to make aliya to Israel to offset the growth of the religious communities.  It's not a good thing.

One of the best ways to fix this is to come from underneath everybody and to instill Kahanist (religious zionist) views to the people and change the mentality.

In the early 90s when 1 million ex-Soviets were quickly imported in to Israel, and complaints were made that 80% were not Halachically Jewish, and that of them 25% had no Jewish blood in them at all, the verminous Yossi Sarid said that they made "a good antidote to the Haredim by setting off their numbers!". The same Yossi Sarid who is advocating importing immediately at least 1 million plain Ethiopian Blacks in to Israel!



Rather than see Kahanists take power, both Chillonim and Haredim would literally end the Medina: it goes that deep! "The war against the Erev Rav is more important and more dangerous than that of the war against Esau & Ishmael: the Geulah depends on it" (Vilna Gaon).


"At the time of a Kahanist Government, any Jewish traitors will be executed immediately!" (Chaim's former r.h. man, Yosef ben Meir z"l 2002).

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  Sarid and other vermin

Every nation has its traitors, but only Israel has traitors so criminally insane and suicidal as the Sarids, Fahimas, and Vannunus.

There's not even a torture capable of repaying these monsters!

"Immediate execution" would be too light a punishment when one takes into consideration both the gravity of their crimes together with their psychotically suicidal and genocidal mindset.

In all the annals of history since time began, has there ever been a nation or people on all the Earth which produced such evil?

I don't understand how they all haven't long ago been dispatched with a bullet to the head.

Such incomprehensible treason like this could remove the stigma which we in the West associate with the punishments traditionally meted out by Asiatic governments.

The potentates of the East have throughout history handed down edicts of "guilt by blood" whereby even distant cousins of someone as treasonous as Sarid and Fahima would be declared guilty, summarily rounded up, and imprisoned or executed -- guilty by being a blood relative of a known traitor.

Such mass punishment served as a warning to the rest of the population; terrifying them into submission and obedience.

It was also considered a form of "insurance" whereby the ruler would hopefully eliminate any others sharing a possibly inherited tendency towards rebelliousness.

Such practices were regularly used by both Saddam Hussein and the Shah of Iran, and were used by as evidence justifying their being removed from power by America.

If the current crop of Jewish Traitors is any indication of what our ancestral Middle Eastern homeland is capable of producing, then perhaps the concept of "cruel and unusual punishment" deserves another look.

[muman613]

wonga,

SINAT CHINAM!!!

you say that Haredim are your enemy... Well, now I know why I don't accept a single thing you say... You are deluded and you are certainly not a Jew... Jews don't speak Lashon Hara such as this against righteous Jews. Kahanists are not the only Jews who will be around during the Messianic times... I don't know where you come up with such drivel..

Maybe wonga wants to take it on himself to exterminate all the Chabad and Breslov Chassids... You and Ben will make good bedmates...

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

A birth curve is not a straight line. It suddenly exponentially takes off dramatically!

Yes but people with low birthrates don't magically disappear.   You are not speaking mathematically.

And certainly the low birthrate people won't disappear when they are the demographic in control of the apparatus of state.   They will do everything in their power to maintain themselves and their vice grip on all aspects of Israeli society, including importing more goyim if necessary, destroying the entire Dati Leumi camp, and creating a Muslim Arab Fakestinian Terrorist state (think, the british palestine mandate methods for how that benefits them).   

Importing more goyim just to spite the will of the Jewish people is a morbid thought.  G-d forbid it ever happens.  Do secular Jews truly hate religious Jews who want to be governed by more traditional Jewish values [this is what the Dati Leumi are, yes?] that much that they would turn Israel into basically a non-Jewish state?  If so, why do you think that reason is?  What can good Jews do to remove the powers that be from control before they have a chance to do any of what may happen as you see?

They are willing to do anything to stay in power.   It's not "secular Jews" in general, it's the Israeli regime and the leftist apparatus.   Many secular Jews are simply zionists.   It's the regime that seeks to bolster its own power with every last breath and will do anything it takes, including destroying the entire dati leumi societies, including compromising on suicidal retreats from the homeland and handing over money power and arms to terrorists.  Thus the expulsion from Aza, the coming/intended expulsions from Yosh (Lo alenu), and the daily destruction of outposts, shuls, farms, etc in Yosh.    The Dati Leumi are more of a threat than the haredim because the dati leumi aspire to national prominence and involvement in leadership and all fields.   The haredim laregly sit on the sidelines and thus pose no threat to the establishment.

The "rabim" don't understand most of these issues and simply complain about haredi this and haredi that, yet they fail to see what the establishment surely understands is that politically the haredi society is in the pockets and in the control of the regime and to the regime's benefit.  So all the laborites, kadimaites, likudniks, etc etc should be thanking the haredim.

Thanks for explaining this.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

In the early 90s when 1 million ex-Soviets were quickly imported in to Israel, and complaints were made that 80% were not Halachically Jewish, and that of them 25% had no Jewish blood in them at all, the verminous Yossi Sarid said that they made "a good antidote to the Haredim by setting off their numbers!". The same Yossi Sarid who is advocating importing immediately at least 1 million plain Ethiopian Blacks in to Israel!



Rather than see Kahanists take power, both Chillonim and Haredim would literally end the Medina: it goes that deep! "The war against the Erev Rav is more important and more dangerous than that of the war against Esau & Ishmael: the Geulah depends on it" (Vilna Gaon).


"At the time of a Kahanist Government, any Jewish traitors will be executed immediately!" (Chaim's former r.h. man, Yosef ben Meir z"l 2002).

I went and did some reading on this Yossi Sarid fellow, he appears to be a major league [censored] who is at odds with the fact he was born Jewish.  Vermin indeed.  God forbid, importing 1 million non-Jew blacks from Ethiopia would be the ultimate act of treason.  What a catastrophe, God forbid.  God forbid, such would be a decimation to Israel, truly this man is horrible.  1 million savage land leeches [I'm sure they would all be well educated and ripe and ready to jump into Israel's technology industry, and not eager to siphon off the efforts of the hardworking and educated], in ISRAEL, God forbid.

Why are Haredim so opposed to Kahanism?  Rabbi Kahane based his opinions and Tanakh and Talmud, how can these religious Jews have such distance from our Rabbis vision?

[muman613]

Ariel,

I believe the simple explanation is the old saying "Ask two Jews a question, get three opinions..."

Even in the times of the Talmud there could be two Great Rabbis who would hold differing opinions.

I believe wonga66 will claim that the Chassidim or Haredim are Erev Rav which I believe is complete Bullcrepe..

The question comes down to what exactly Zionism is... Is it the secular zionism which created the state of Israel? If that is what is talked about it is clear that the religious would oppose it because a non-religious Israel is not what Hashem wanted and the religious Jews believe that Hashem will only allow the Jews to occupy the land when we accept the Torah which he gave us...

The Torah says at least 2 times that the land will vomit the Jewish people out if they reject his Torah. Read the Tochacha a couple of times and it will be clear that Jews only inherit the land if we accept the Torah, and live by it's precepts...

So the problem is that most of these Chassids and Haredim look at the current state and say this is not what Hashem wanted. Can this state be saved? I am one who believes it can... But the current leaders in Israel have to go... I believe that Kahanism is a way to save the current state of Israel by working within the government...

Here is what the Breslov site says about Zionism..

http://www.breslov.org/blog/?tag=zionism

Question:
Do Breslov Chasidim belive in Zionism? Do they belive in a Jewish State as well as Eretz Yisrael being the homeland of the Am Yisrael? From what I understand there is a split in the breslov world. Can you please clarify this for me? Does Breslov make up part of the Eda Haredit?

Answer:
In my opinion it depends on what you mean by Zionism. If you were simply referring to “Zionism” as the love of Eretz Yisrael and our belief that it was given to the Jewish people eternally and that eventually we will return to it, then there is no doubt that every Breslover is a Zionist. There was no bigger lover of the Land of Israel than Rebbe Nachman. His books are filled with praise for Eretz Yisrael and of advice in regards to gaining its kidusha/holiness. It is know that Rebbe Nachman himself overtook an extremely dangerous journey, whose original purpose was only to walk a few steps in the Land and then return to his Chassidim. Rebbe Nachman told his Chassidim that anyone who wants to be a real Jew, must visit the Land.

Now if you are referring to the modern political Zionist movement founded by Theodore Herzl amongst others, simply put, Breslov is not a political movement. Firstly, the Rebbe passed away on Sukkot 1810, the Zionist Movement was not founded until the end of the 19th century, so the Rebbe definitely did not say anything about it. The mesorah-traditions we have in Breslov rarely contains political views. We believe that the Rebbe being the Tzaddik Emes/True Tzaadik is constantly doing whatever is in his power to bring every Jew closer to God and the truth. This goal and process stands head and tails above all political beliefs and groups.

I once heard a story from the grandson of the great anti-Zionist Reb Shmuel Shapiro. His grandfather was once lovingly dancing with another Breslover who was very Zionistic. When Reb Shmuel was asked why he would dance with this fellow, he replied something to the effect that their personal hiskasherut/connection to Rebbe Nachman is much larger than any political disputes. Some Breslovers may choose to be Zionistic, well others may choose the opposite, but in the end we will be judged by how much we followed the Eitzos/Advice of the Tzaddik and by how much we strived to pursue truth. Everything else is trivial.

Hope this helps,
Yossi Katz

[TheCoon]

So since most of these chassidim don't really make much effort to go live in Israel and make change, they're kind of just sitting back and hoping God will topple the secular Israeli government and set the stage for their return? Am I understanding right or wrong? I've always been curious why many chassidim seem to make no effort to live in Israel yet are obviously Torah-observent Jews.

[muman613]

So since most of these chassidim don't really make much effort to go live in Israel and make change, they're kind of just sitting back and hoping G-d will topple the secular Israeli government and set the stage for their return? Am I understanding right or wrong? I've always been curious why many chassidim seem to make no effort to live in Israel yet are obviously Torah-observent Jews.

In my opinion there has been a failure of the Rabbis in America... This is another story..

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Ariel,

I believe the simple explanation is the old saying "Ask two Jews a question, get three opinions..."

Even in the times of the Talmud there could be two Great Rabbis who would hold differing opinions.

I believe wonga66 will claim that the Chassidim or Haredim are Erev Rav which I believe is complete Bullcrepe..

The question comes down to what exactly Zionism is... Is it the secular zionism which created the state of Israel? If that is what is talked about it is clear that the religious would oppose it because a non-religious Israel is not what Hashem wanted and the religious Jews believe that Hashem will only allow the Jews to occupy the land when we accept the Torah which he gave us...

The Torah says at least 2 times that the land will vomit the Jewish people out if they reject his Torah. Read the Tochacha a couple of times and it will be clear that Jews only inherit the land if we accept the Torah, and live by it's precepts...

So the problem is that most of these Chassids and Haredim look at the current state and say this is not what Hashem wanted. Can this state be saved? I am one who believes it can... But the current leaders in Israel have to go... I believe that Kahanism is a way to save the current state of Israel by working within the government...

Here is what the Breslov site says about Zionism..

http://www.breslov.org/blog/?tag=zionism

Question:
Do Breslov Chasidim belive in Zionism? Do they belive in a Jewish State as well as Eretz Yisrael being the homeland of the Am Yisrael? From what I understand there is a split in the breslov world. Can you please clarify this for me? Does Breslov make up part of the Eda Haredit?

Answer:
In my opinion it depends on what you mean by Zionism. If you were simply referring to “Zionism” as the love of Eretz Yisrael and our belief that it was given to the Jewish people eternally and that eventually we will return to it, then there is no doubt that every Breslover is a Zionist. There was no bigger lover of the Land of Israel than Rebbe Nachman. His books are filled with praise for Eretz Yisrael and of advice in regards to gaining its kidusha/holiness. It is know that Rebbe Nachman himself overtook an extremely dangerous journey, whose original purpose was only to walk a few steps in the Land and then return to his Chassidim. Rebbe Nachman told his Chassidim that anyone who wants to be a real Jew, must visit the Land.

Now if you are referring to the modern political Zionist movement founded by Theodore Herzl amongst others, simply put, Breslov is not a political movement. Firstly, the Rebbe passed away on Sukkot 1810, the Zionist Movement was not founded until the end of the 19th century, so the Rebbe definitely did not say anything about it. The mesorah-traditions we have in Breslov rarely contains political views. We believe that the Rebbe being the Tzaddik Emes/True Tzaadik is constantly doing whatever is in his power to bring every Jew closer to G-d and the truth. This goal and process stands head and tails above all political beliefs and groups.

I once heard a story from the grandson of the great anti-Zionist Reb Shmuel Shapiro. His grandfather was once lovingly dancing with another Breslover who was very Zionistic. When Reb Shmuel was asked why he would dance with this fellow, he replied something to the effect that their personal hiskasherut/connection to Rebbe Nachman is much larger than any political disputes. Some Breslovers may choose to be Zionistic, well others may choose the opposite, but in the end we will be judged by how much we followed the Eitzos/Advice of the Tzaddik and by how much we strived to pursue truth. Everything else is trivial.

Hope this helps,
Yossi Katz

That is interesting.  I always like hearing the Breslov side of things.  It seems to me that I can agree with both arguments at the same time.  I am very supportive of Israel, as we all are, and like many of us I wish Torah played a bigger role in Israel's government.  It is a heavy moment because secular Jews appear to have the majority of the power in Israel, but I truly believe this is only that, a moment.  I can easily sympathize with any Torah Jew if they are troubled by the role of secularism in the ruling parties of Israel.

I just watched a 60 or 70 minute speech from Rabbi Kahane yesterday, it was posted on the forum wall [he spoke to Noachides in a convention of theirs, I believe you commented in the thread], and he made a pretty good explanation why we were given the State of Israel again even though many Jews are not Torah observant, including many of the Zionist pioneers.  Rabbi explains that HaShem did not grant Israel's statehood because we were good Jews, not at all.  HaShem granted us Israel once again because of the Chillul HaShem of the goyim nations. -- From this I walk away thinking Jewish sovereignty over Israel occurred for the sake of creating Kiddush HaShem to replace the Chillul HaShem in the world [attacking the Jewish people for being Jewish is an attack on HaShem Himself], it is to make clear to the goyim of the world HaShem exists and can do anything.  People said because of 2,000 years of torment in exile and the Holocaust, "surely the Jewish God does not exist, or He has abandoned His people who He had a covenant with".  By bringing forth Israel once again HaShem shows those who wish to disbelieve that they are wrong, and our God always keeps His word, and He will never let us be destroyed, and for the sake of Kiddush HaShem and for the disbelieving eyes of the goyim [or even Jews who were so traumatized by these events they too did not believe], not because we are good Torah Jews. -- Of course now is the time to honor HaShem and immerse ourselves back in Torah and to live lives of Mitzvoth.  -- I'm not sure if I get everything the Rabbi says [I'm no Gaon!], but things feel more understandable to me now about how the modern State of Israel came to be.  I can see the both sides of the Zionist argument with Torah Jews now [and a possible resolve], and I can understand pro-Zionist secular Jews [this is our legal homeland], I just don't get anti-Zionist secular Jews I suppose.

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

Haredis are interesting, Issue should not be made on their clothes. Whats wrong if they got a unique tradition, yet follow the spiritual torah way of life. I do think clothes are just traditional thing, but underlying culture is the name. Guys come to India and see, there are almost 50 traditions in India, a Hindu in West India will not look or dress like Hindu in East. As long as they follow the hindu philosophy we are fine with it. I know some Indian Jewish friends who dress and have indian mannerisms, but they are devout Jewish.