Rabbi Eliyahu Kin [10 Lost Tribes]

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

http://tvtorah.com/index.php/Judaism-Channel/Rabbi-Eliyahu-Kin/The-Ten-Lost-Tribes-of-Israel.html

I was at a Kosher pizza spot I go to every few weeks.  When I am there usually there are CDs of Rabbis giving lectures at the register, when paying for my pizza usually grab one [they are free too!].  The last one I picked up was by a Rabbi named Rabbi Eliyahu Kin.  The subject he spoke about was the 10 Lost Tribes.  If that is a subject of interest for you I think you will find this lecture interesting.  Although this appears to the same lecture on my CD it is longer, and has the benefit of the visuals which took place during this presntation.  One thing that stuck out as very interesting to me is that there, aside from the 10 Tribes, is also a tribe of Moses children, "B"nei Moshe" who are out there.

If you are interested in this give it a listen.

Has anyone heard this Rabbi Eliyahu Kin speak on any other subjects?  I have heard him speak on evolution before too and find him to be a smart guy.

[wonga66]

Yair Davidy of Britam's opinion of Kin's talk:


Impressions:
Relatively longish video.
Gives some background information from a Jewish perspective.

Contents:
Speaks of Yonadab of the Rechabites descendants of Jethro, Sons of Moses, Benjamin, and Simeon.
Suggests that Khazars were from the Ten Tribes.
Speculates some of  the Tribes may have intermixed with Jews of Georgia.
Refers to a group in northern Saudi Arabia as possible descendants of Yonadab of the Rechabites.
Sambation in legend.
North of Tibet, north of Nepal, bordering Burma. Identifies Sinim as China. Unknown places in Himalayas, Vietnam.
Mashiach ben Yoseph brings back Ten Tribes. Yehudah to be involved in return of Ten Tribes.
Some of the Ethiopians, Karens, Afghans. Mountain (Georgia) Jews. Lemba of South Africa.
Bnei Menasseh from Burma. Buchara a possible mixture of Jews and Ten Tribes.
Hephtalites-Nephtalites-Naphtali. Ancient Aramaic script in Bucharia, Japan, China, Naphtalites
Pashtun (Pathans) of Afghanistan: Usual urban Legends constantly regurgitated and unproven.
Pashtun not like Jews. Do not want to be associated with Jews.

Evaluation.
Interesting, a bit slow.
Unreliable speculation especially concerning identification with the Pathans,
see our article:
Taliban-Who? Pathans are NOT Israelites!
http://www.britam.org/Taliban.html

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Yair Davidy of Britam's opinion of Kin's talk:


Impressions:
Relatively longish video.
Gives some background information from a Jewish perspective.

Contents:
Speaks of Yonadab of the Rechabites descendants of Jethro, Sons of Moses, Benjamin, and Simeon.
Suggests that Khazars were from the Ten Tribes.
Speculates some of  the Tribes may have intermixed with Jews of Georgia.
Refers to a group in northern Saudi Arabia as possible descendants of Yonadab of the Rechabites.
Sambation in legend.
North of Tibet, north of Nepal, bordering Burma. Identifies Sinim as China. Unknown places in Himalayas, Vietnam.
Mashiach ben Yoseph brings back Ten Tribes. Yehudah to be involved in return of Ten Tribes.
Some of the Ethiopians, Karens, Afghans. Mountain (Georgia) Jews. Lemba of South Africa.
Bnei Menasseh from Burma. Buchara a possible mixture of Jews and Ten Tribes.
Hephtalites-Nephtalites-Naphtali. Ancient Aramaic script in Bucharia, Japan, China, Naphtalites
Pashtun (Pathans) of Afghanistan: Usual urban Legends constantly regurgitated and unproven.
Pashtun not like Jews. Do not want to be associated with Jews.

Evaluation.
Interesting, a bit slow.
Unreliable speculation especially concerning identification with the Pathans,
see our article:
Taliban-Who? Pathans are NOT Israelites!
http://www.britam.org/Taliban.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

 

[wonga66]

Let's call it "Britam Israelitism"!
http://britam.org/

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "Let's call it "Britam Israelitism"! "

Call it whatever you want; it's still not scholarship.

I'm sure that there is an element of truth to be found in some of it, but the same can be said about all propaganda.

The following question is asked on the websites' front page:

"Why are Brit-Am Research Results Not Accepted in Israel?"

Answer:

For the same reason that the 'results' are not accepted anywhere except the lunatic fringe -- because it's flawed research using for its sources hearsay, folk legends, unsubstantiated and mostly anecdotal evidence.

p.s. - Don't give up, though -- You can always make a "sweet living" if you'll move to California and sell your shtick there, where the population is so illiterate, so dumbed down, and so drugged out that they'll believe anything.  (and if you doubt that, just look at whom they elected as their Governor)

[wonga66]

Actually, Britam's Ten Lost Tribe evidences seems pretty cogent.

I suspect the reason that few accept them is that they're just too far-reaching, too hard to swallow, too counter-intuitive & scary ramifications for people to accept, just like the Olral & Written Torah themselves! i.e. it's just too potent, just like a geocentric, 6000 year old Kahanist universe is only accepted by a few Jews, despite full support from science and the Torah sources!

Notice that there has been no scholarly refutation of any of Britam's thesis.

In fact not even an un-scholarly one by even a paltry "Massuh"!

A sure sign that Davidy, even if not 100% correct, is on the right track. To me fulfilment of the many prophecies that the Ephramites would have worldwide dominion as fulfiled by the Anglo nations is of particular interest.

Believe me, when the Ten Lost Tribes come home, you'll prefer them to be English-speaking Whites, rather than pigmented Brown & Black Bantus, Hottentots, Pathans, Afghanis & Burmese!

"There never was such a thing as "Black Jews!" (Rabbi Avigdor Miller) - a sentiment with which Chaim would indubitably concur!

[muman613]

Actually, Britam's Ten Lost Tribe evidences seems pretty cogent.

I suspect the reason that few accept them is that they're just too far-reaching, too hard to swallow, too counter-intuitive & scary ramifications for people to accept, just like the Olral & Written Torah themselves! i.e. it's just too potent, just like a geocentric, 6000 year old Kahanist universe is only accepted by a few Jews, despite full support from science and the Torah sources!

Notice that there has been no scholarly refutation of any of Britam's thesis.

In fact not even an un-scholarly one by even a paltry "Massuh"!

A sure sign that Davidy, even if not 100% correct, is on the right track. To me fulfilment of the many prophecies that the Ephramites would have worldwide dominion as fulfiled by the Anglo nations is of particular interest.

Believe me, when the Ten Lost Tribes come home, you'll prefer them to be English-speaking Whites, rather than pigmented Brown & Black Bantus, Hottentots, Pathans, Afghanis & Burmese!

"There never was such a thing as "Black Jews!" (Rabbi Avigdor Miller) - a sentiment with which Chaim would indubitably concur!

Wonga,

You made a statement which is obvious false... Do you realize that Moshes wife was a Cushite? She converted also, so she was a Cushite Jew and the children she had with Moshe would be half Cushite... Also you realize that Moshe spent several years in Ethiopia and during that time it is said he was a King of Ethiopia? This is not my making this up...

But aside from that... I really doubt that there is any merit in the idea that British are lost tribes. They were Barbarian offspring of Essau... Pagan sun worshippers who built stonehenge...

[wonga66]

Obviously not all Anglos/Europeans/Whites are of TLT origins. But the TLTs went somewhere.

Have you actually read Davidy's evidences on his site and books that they went West?!

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "Have you actually read Davidy's evidences on his site and books that they went West?! "

I am sure that they went in dozens of directions, and at such a time in history that to migrate into others' territories was a guarantee of becoming robbed, killed, kidnapped, murdered, raped, and/or taken away into slavery.

I am familiar with most of these "evidences", as they are weekly reported by other psudo scholars and charlatans on "Coast to Coast AM" syndicated nightly talk show dealing with the unexplained and paranormal.

There seems to be "no end" to all the "evidence" spread across our planet.

Some of the "evidences" found suggest that:

1) Humanity as we know it has been present on Earth for hundreds and millions of years, and in thousands of previous advanced civilizations possessing technologies which we today have yet to discover.  The archaeological record is full of documented anomalies suggesting this; none of which can be explained within the confineds of "accepted" scientific history, and so the evidence is regularly "shelved" and ignored.

2) Nuclear War took place in what was ancient India thousands of years ago, the evidence being the Vedic Purhanas which speak of mercury-fueled flying war machines employing anti-gravitational propulsion engines,  attacking with weapons which exactly describe those nuclear arms we possess today, all lent further credence by the discovery of a large desert plain which is to this day highly radioactive.

3) The writings left from one ancient Chinese Dynasty attesting to the "fact" that they long ago went to the moon and established a Royal Colony there.

4) Thousands upon thousands of OFFICIALLY documented UFO sightings and abductions of humans by UFO's, some of which defy debunking by any rational explanations, and are found in the photographic and video records of governments all over the planet.  Just recently such records have been released and made public by the governments of UK, Brazil, and France.

Using the method of research employed by Davidy, each and all of the above would have him declare that each was "SCIENTIFIC PROOF" that "CONFIRMED" HIS "RESEARCH".

But the difference between "anecdotal evidence" vs "scientific proof" is such that not one UFO has landed on the White House Lawn and unloaded its alien 'greys' to give interviews on "The Okra Show".

Until that happens, or until someone or some government reveals a UFO to the public which is in their possession, it all remains a matter of conjecture, theory, speculation, with tons of surrounding 'evidence' which is unverified by science.

And, that is exactly true of Davidy's "Brit-Am" Israelite Theories.  Very interesting reading, plenty of anecdotal evidence and folk legends indicating that perhaps the ancient Israelite Tribes, or remnants of them, passed through this way or that way and settled - but NO CONCRETE PROOFS of any of it.

Add to that the fact that the spread of Christianity across the Western World, brought to Europe by Jewish apostles and then by Bible believing missionaries, further muddles the evidence because millions of people with no knowledge whatsoever of ancient Judaean and Israelite life now all want to be "the Chosen People".

Christianity in essence even teaches that those who accept Christ are The New Israel which replace entirely the original Israel.

Then pile on the Doctrines and Teachings of The Book of Mormon, which in the 1800's was presented by Joseph Smith as "the TRUTH of what happened to the ancient Israelites, as revealed to him by the Angel Moroni, through the translation of solid gold hieroglyphic tablets to which he was led in upstate New York -- all of which providing the "PROOF" on which Joseph Smith founded a new American Church based on the belief that the Indigenous American Indians are in fact the remnant tribes of ancient Israel to whom Christ ministered across North America.

Again, great reading -- fascinating conjecture -- based on "evidences" as presented by Smith and attested to by the SWORN SIGNED LEGAL AFFIDAVIT OF WITNESSES swearing under oath that they saw the original gold tablets found by Smith!

But NO PROOF, and in fact even debunked by modern DNA tests of American Indians.

So what do the Mormons have to say about the debunking?

They simply change their story to claim that SOME of the Indians being originally Jewish tribes, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM, were what is meant by the prophecies of Smith, so therefore the DNA tests obviously missed studying the right Indians!

And so it goes.....

May Davidy prosper and do well in his business, but he has yet to be accepted because he offers lots of anecdotes with no proof.

Anyone with common sense would know that there have to be at least some remnants of the 10 Lost Tribes intermingled and assimilated among various peoples, cultures, and nations all over the world, but bringing forth solid irrefutable evidence of such has eluded Biblical scholars for hundreds of years.

I'm afraid that such claims by Davidy that "British and Scottish persecutions of Jews was far less than that committed by some other peoples because of their common Israelite heritage" falls far short of the mark in terms of anything other than borderline lunacy when considered as "evidence" and "proof".

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Actually, Britam's Ten Lost Tribe evidences seems pretty cogent.

I suspect the reason that few accept them is that they're just too far-reaching, too hard to swallow, too counter-intuitive & scary ramifications for people to accept, just like the Olral & Written Torah themselves! i.e. it's just too potent, just like a geocentric, 6000 year old Kahanist universe is only accepted by a few Jews, despite full support from science and the Torah sources!   

LOL -  "Kahanist Universe"   What exactly is a Kahanist Universe?

And when you say full support from science (for geocentric and 6000 year old universe) surely you're joking.  Either that or you are living with one almost incomprehensibly gigantic delusion.

Believe me, when the Ten Lost Tribes come home, you'll prefer them to be English-speaking Whites, rather than pigmented Brown & Black Bantus, Hottentots, Pathans, Afghanis & Burmese!

That just shows what your bias is and why your support for this "theory" is not believable.  You support it out of preference.

[wonga66]

Davidy brings here
an interesting prophecy from Hoshea.

[Meerkat]

i heard that the Kurds are genetically very close to Jews, closer than other ethnicities.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "i heard that the Kurds are genetically very close to Jews, closer than other ethnicities. "

It seems we are almost identical in genetic heritage, which should be no surprise because Abraham was from Ur.

[Meerkat]

Re:  "i heard that the Kurds are genetically very close to Jews, closer than other ethnicities. "

It seems we are almost identical in genetic heritage, which should be no surprise because Abraham was from Ur.

jews are actually closer to kurds than they are to arabs. and heres something surprising, even though most kurds are muslim, they support the post 67 borders of israel (or at least those i talked to) . must be because they know from there experiences with bashar al-assad and saddam hussein what kind of people the arabs are. they unanimously sided with israel on the floatillia raid because of the cultural genocide turkey  is committing against them.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Re:  "i heard that the Kurds are genetically very close to Jews, closer than other ethnicities. "

It seems we are almost identical in genetic heritage, which should be no surprise because Abraham was from Ur.

jews are actually closer to kurds than they are to arabs. and heres something surprising, even though most kurds are muslim, they support the post 67 borders of israel (or at least those i talked to) . must be because they know from there experiences with bashar al-assad and saddam hussein what kind of people the arabs are. they unanimously sided with israel on the floatillia raid because of the cultural genocide turkey  is committing against them.

Yes Kurds are very good friends of Israel that's why they were friends of the Soviets and are friends of Syria.
You're sick in the head, you can't understand interests (they hate us but hate Turkey more, they need a strong Israel as a counter to Turkey but once Turkey is finished...)

[Meerkat]

Re:  "i heard that the Kurds are genetically very close to Jews, closer than other ethnicities. "

It seems we are almost identical in genetic heritage, which should be no surprise because Abraham was from Ur.

jews are actually closer to kurds than they are to arabs. and heres something surprising, even though most kurds are muslim, they support the post 67 borders of israel (or at least those i talked to) . must be because they know from there experiences with bashar al-assad and saddam hussein what kind of people the arabs are. they unanimously sided with israel on the floatillia raid because of the cultural genocide turkey  is committing against them.

Yes Kurds are very good friends of Israel that's why they were friends of the Soviets and are friends of Syria.
You're sick in the head, you can't understand interests (they hate us but hate Turkey more, they need a strong Israel as a counter to Turkey but once Turkey is finished...)

im just talking about the ones i came accross on the internet. i wouldnt be surprised if they were friends of the soviets since a lot of them are PKK, but they don't like syria. kurds arnt going to support palestine because they hate arabs, they hate arabs more than we do. it has to do with saddam gassing them.

i think we should try to be friends with the kurds, but be ready for a stab in the back just in case.

[wonga66]

"The Brit-Am Movement of the Ten Tribes represented by Yair Davidiy presents 110 proofs from the Bible tracing Western Peoples to the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel.

BRIT-AM LIST OF 110 BIBLICAL PROOFS

Biblical Evidence
http://www.britam.org/Proof/ProofsIntro.html

Brit-Am understands that the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel assimilated to the ways of the heathen and lost their identity. Eventually they reached Western Europe. From there their descendants populated North America, Australia, and other regions. These assertions are proven by historical studies and related disciplines. Nevertheless, the most important proofs are those found in Scripture. The Bible told us where the Lost Ten Tribes were destined to be in the End Times. The points below when taken as one comprehensive whole provide incontrovertible evidence as to where the Lost Tribes were to be. Each proof is accompanied by reference to a Biblical verse exemplifying the point given and a LINK to a short article of explanation and additional clarification. This is PROOF! The Bible was intended to be taken as literally as possible. It was also intended to be taken as an overall composite body, a kind of multi-dimensional jigsaw with each each piece dove-tailing with the pieces around it.

A. GEOGRAPHY
1. Ends of the Earth: Isaiah 24:16, 26:15, 41:8-9 43:6 49:6
2. Isles Isaiah 24:15  49:6 60:9 Jeremiah 31: 9-10
3. Thighs, Peninsulas, and Coasts: Jeremiah 31:8
4. Tarshish (Atlantic Ocean Area) Isaiah 60:9
5. Western Location:  Isaiah 24:14, Hosea 1:10
6. Located to the Northwest of the Land of Israel: Isaiah 49:12
7. In the "North" Land:  Jeremiah 3:18  31: 6-10
8. Australia ("Land of  Sinim") Isaiah 49:8
See also Brit-Am Computer Codes on Australia and New Zealand
9. Best Places (Atziliyah) Isaiah 41: 9
10. Fires in the Isles referring to Celtic Britain Isaiah 24:15
11: Zarephath, meaning France and Britain, Obadiah 1:20
12. Dolmens showing Pathway of Migration  Jeremiah 31:21
13. Many Waters (Several Oceans) Numbers 24:7

B. RECOGNIZABLE SYMBOLS
14. Bald-Headed Eagle (symbol of USA) Micah 1:16
15. Lion and Unicorn (Symbol of Britain) Numbers 24:7-9

C. HISTORICAL BEHAVIOR
16. Cyrus: Messiah son of Joseph  Isaiah 44:28
17. Rule Over OTHER Peoples:
Genesis 27:29 48:19 "A MULTITUDE OF NATIONS" (Hebrew: "Malo HaGoyim" i.e. Complete the Peoples, Onkelos: = Rule over the nations), Psalms 47:3
18. Being Recognizable as a "Brit-Am" Isaiah 42:6 49:8 Covenant of the People
19. Seafarers Isaiah 42:10
20. Be the Dominant World Power Numbers 24:7-9 Micah 5:7-9
21. Military Might: Deuteronomy 33:27 33:29 Jer. 51:20-21
22. The Battle-Axe of the Almighty or "Police-Man of the Globe"
Jeremiah 51:20 Zechariah 10:7
23. Defeat Edom (Germany and Europe) Ez. 25:14 Obad. 1:18
24. Light for the Gentiles Genesis 12:2-3, 18:18-19, 22:18 24:4  Isaiah 42:1 42:6 Amos 6:15
25: Alcoholic Drunkards Isaiah 28:1, 3

D. SITUATION
14. Separate from Judah: Isaiah 11:12-13  49:21
15. Not known to Judah:  Isaiah 49:13-14, 21. Hosea 1:7
16. Christianity: Hosea 2:8, 2:13, 2:16  11:12  Jeremiah 31:6
17. Gomer: Linkage with European nations;  Hosea chapter one

E. BLESSINGS
18. Numerous: Genesis 15:5, 22:17,  24:60, 32:12, Numbers 23:10, Isaiah 10:22, 24:16, 26:15 Hos.1:10
19. Agricultural Plenty: Gen 27:28 49:25 Deut 33:13-16  Hoshea 2:8
20. Mineral Resources Genesis 49:25  Deuteronomy 33:13, 15
21. GATE(s) OF YOUR ENEMIES (International Strategic Points) Genesis 22:17  24:60
22, 23, 24. Cush (India), Egypt, Chains in Slaves from Africa to be taken overseas to homeland Isa. 44:28  also Isa 43:3 45:14
25.  Ruled by Sons of David Jeremiah 33:22, 26
26.  Headed by Kings Genesis 17:6, 16,  35:11

G. ANCESTRAL NAMES IN GENERAL
27. The name Hebrew (The Western "Celts" called themselves "Iberi" meaning "Hebrews"!):  Genesis 14:13 39:17 40:15 1:12  43:32  Jonah 1:9
28. Isaac: (Genesis 21:12 48:16). Scythians, Zohak, Ishkuza, Sacasson, Saxon.
29. Jacob: Isaiah 49:6 Tribes of Jacob: Union Jack, Yankee,
30. Israel: "Isru" traditional ancestor of the Irish and Scottish
31. John Bull (nickname for Britain):  Deut 33:17  Jeremiah 31:18 "Aegel" (Angle) was a nickname for Ephraim
32-102. Seventy Tribal and Clan Names many of which are still in use.

H. NATIONAL CHARACTERISTICS
103. Nobility Principle associated with  Ephraim  (UK) Jer. 31:20
104. Representative Democracy associated with Manasseh (USA) Genesis 41:51
105. The name "America" from Machir firstborn of Manasseh. USA the major  Capitalist nation and "Machir" denotes Principle of Sale.
106. Zebulon on the shores of the Sea (Gen 49:13) Sabulingoi (People of Zebulon) in Holland who do literally dwell on the sea-shores.
107.Proof from Biblical Brit-Am Computer Codes
108.Ephraimite Criteria
109. Object of Islamic Terror
110. Numerous Other Proofs in Scripture and Related Sources."

[muman613]

If the British are so Jewish why did they expel the Jews? Europe has treated the Jews worse than any other nation in the world. I find this whole exercise odd. The descendents of Edom and Ishmael control Europe at this time, not any lost tribes...

[wonga66]

The British aren't "Jewish".

The Ten Tribes weren't "Jews": they were Israelites.

The word "Jew" comes from "Judah", a different tribe altogether.

The Ten Tribes, especially the Ephramites, were already rivals and enemies of Judah for centuries.

Davidy agrees with the Talmud that says that the TLTs lost even their status as Israelites millennia ago, & that they have today the Halachic status of uncircumcised, beer-swilling, pot-bellied, soccer-obsessed, foul-mouthed, anti-semitic yoks.

I am not sure that Davidy is 100% correct.

But his evidences that TLT blood entered some Europeans c700-800BCE are intriguing, and no refutation or critique has yet come forth from any Torah scholar.

I prefer to think that, if anyone, the British and other Whites are our very, very distant and diluted kith and kin, rather than the slant-eyed, sallow and black-skinned Burmese, Japanese and Ethiopians!

[wonga66]

i heard that the Kurds are genetically very close to Jews, closer than other ethnicities.

If Debka is correct in its scenario here http://www.debka.com/article/8976/
Israel may yet soon be called in to help the Kurds!

 
US ends Iraq war, leaves two civil conflicts on the boil

The crossing of the US 4th Stryker Brigade and 2nd Infantry Division from Iraq into Kuwait Thursday morning, Aug. 19, ended America's combat involvement in the seven and-a-half year Iraq war. debkafile's military and Baghdad sources note that, for Washington, the war which cost 4,400 American lives and $1 trillion - is over, as per US President Barack Obama's pledge. But for Iraq, it is just beginning: At least two civil conflicts are at boiling point - Sunni-Shiite strife and hostilities between the two Muslim factions and the Kurds of the North - and Iran's followers stand ready to seize Iraq's oil-rich South potentially sparking yet another world conflagration.

The political vacuum in Baghdad created by Nouri al-Maliki's refusal to step down or join a unity government is unsustainable and the cause of a rising spiral of violence. Neither of the two leading Iraqi parties which emerged from the general election earlier this year – Maliki's State of Law Party and ex-prime minister Iyad Allawi's Iraqiya Party – is seen capable of commanding a parliamentary majority any time this year.
Dropping out of negotiations for joining Allawi in a coalition government, the transitional prime minister has turned his attention to preparations for a Shiite war against the Sunnis to be launched as soon as the Americans are gone. He has lined up senior Shiite commanders in the Iraqi Army who are willing to lead an all-out offensive against the Sunnis in Baghdad and central and western Iraq. According to US intelligence, they are preparing to capture large parts of Baghdad as well as Habaniya, Ramadi, Tikrit, Falluja and sections of Anbar Province, in order to achieve two objectives.

One is to defeat Sunni forces, forcing them to accept their loss of political influence and bow to his conditions, or else face more casualties, the loss of more territory in the cities and more debacles.

The second is to crush the power bases the Saudis are building in Iraq at great expense.

While the Saudis and the Syrians are spending money to buy off Maliki's supporters, he plans to physically destroy the Sunni power centers in which they are investing.
His plans could ignite a Shiite-Sunni war lasting from one to two years up to late 2012 or early 2013. At least one to one-and-a-half million Iraqi Sunnis will be put to flight and flood neighboring Jordan which has neither the resources not the utilities to support that many refugees.

A second Iraqi community, the Kurds of the north, is in the midst of war preparations out of a bitter sense of betrayal by Washington.
They are furious over America quitting the country without solving the critical issue of Kirkuk and its oilfields. Calculating that the Shiites and Sunnis will be caught up in their own war and have no soldiers to spare for stopping them, the Kurds have lined up this strategic northern city for capture as soon as September.

They also plan to exploit the anticipated armed Sunni-Shiite feud to drive south and grab parts of central Iraq up to a line some 250 kilometers north of Baghdad.

Holding such towns as Saghir, Chay Khanah, Qarah Tappah, Muhsin Aziz and As-Sadiyah would be the key to Kurdish control of the eastern provinces bordering on Iran. This would give them the strategic depth for defending Kirkuk and its oil fields and bring them to the edges of the northern belt of cities hinging on Baquba and Balad which protect Baghdad from invasion from the north.

Their Peshmerga is a highly-trained and skilled military force which the Kurds believe neither the Shiites nor the Sunnis can overcome.
Tehran is also eyeing rich spoils in Iraq's post-American era.
The networks in Iraq run by the Iranian Intelligence Ministry, the MOIS, and the Revolutionary Guards Al Qods Brigades have joined forces with their Iraqi allies to take over the southern oilfields centering on the city of Basra, which account for about 60 percent of the country's oil output.
This would be Iran's payback for the energy sanctions President Barack Obama imposed in July.
Iran also covets the two holiest cities of the world Shiite movement, Karbala and Najaf.
The ayatollahs in Tehran are planning a double coup in Iraq - possession of Iraq's oil riches plus command of its two most treasured religious sites.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "But his evidences that TLT blood entered some Europeans c800BCE are intriguing, and no refutation or critique has yet come forth from any Torah scholar. "

You are employing flawed logic and false reasoning.

If someone states a belief, or puts forward a hypothetical proposition, and no Torah scholar comes forth to refute or critique them, that has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not that belief or proposition is valid or true.

And an idea that is intriguing is nothing more than an intriguing idea.

[wonga66]

Since when is Judaism "logical"? Torah is not dependent on and is above logic, propostions and reasoning. The continued existence of the Jewish People is "not logical", Mr Spock! The predicted return of the Ten Lost Tribes, when it happens, will be stunner.

If no Torah scholar has come up with any critique at all of Davidy on such a potent and tendentious topic, then either there are no scholars or Orthodox Jewish historians learned any more in this area; or they are too scared of the wide-reaching ramifications of the subject; or else that they see nothing to criticise!

I think that Rav Kahane would say: "It could well be. You Righteous Gentiles, who may or may not be of Ten Lost Tribe origins, had better be supportive of us, because your salvation depends on it!"

It would be interesting for you Massuh, to make a criticism, or even a half-learned aspersion, against any of Davidy's 100 'proofs'.

Davidy invites comments and criticisms on his twice daily newsletter.

From what I've read over the last 10 years of his responses, IMHO, like that other gadfly Chamish, Davidy's c80% correct.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "If no Torah scholar has come up with any critique at all of Davidy on such a potent and tendentious topic, then either there are no scholars or Orthodox Jewish historians learned any more in this area; or they are too scared of the wide-reaching ramifications of the subject; or else that they see nothing to criticise! "

Or...you live in delusion and in denial; or Davidy is wrong and you are foolish for believing what he writes; or there are many scholars and Orthodox Jewish historians learned in Torah who don't make their views of Davidy's work known because they consider both Davidy and his ideas not worthy of comment.  As for the lack of Torah scholar comments because of any possible fear on their part for the wide reaching ramifications of the subject, that might be possible except for the fact that such a fear has never stopped the comments of Torah scholars in previous generations.

You are most correct in that Torah is in essence removed from logic, as is the statistical chance for Jewish survival to the year 2010.

So, it all comes basically down to this:

In matters of faith, one either accepts things as truth, rejects them in favor of others, or practices selection as to that which one accepts as true.

Re:  "The predicted return of the Ten Lost Tribes, when it happens, will be stunner. "   

I'm sure it will be a stunner when it happens.

What I fail to grasp is your focused obsession with this one subject which is based on Davidy's books.

It is as if you are a newly converted zealot out to spread the one true faith whether or not anyone else cares that much.

These ideas are not new, and they form the foundational base ideology of several contemporary Christian religious offshoots including the neo-Nazi Christian Identity Movement.

And as for "It would be interesting for you Massuh, to make a criticism, or even a half-learned aspersion, against any of Davidy's 100 'proofs'. " all I can say to you is that you have written this exact challenge verbatim here on the forum once before, and that Davidy's 100 "proofs" are not proven facts.

I therefore make a fully learned and well educated critique and refutation of both your views on this subject as well as Davidy's '100 proofs'.

While we're on the subject of proofs, I challenge you to cast any aspersions on the factual proof of 100 FACTS ABOUT THE NEGRO which is found on all KKK and neo-Nazi websites.

Perhaps you can't and won't because you fear the ramifications of them all being true.

[wonga66]

"Proven facts"?!

Can you give me any "proven facts" that there was an Exodus from Egypt and a Mattan Torah, that reaches your high level of historical evidences?!

For 150 years, academe has ridiculed the truth of the Bible: of a Creation 6000 years ago, of the Garden of Eden, of the Flood, of the Exodus, of the First Temple, of the existence of a King David, that Yona was swallowed by a fish, of the Story of Esther, even of the Maccabees etc etc.

The archeologists haven't found much after 150 years of digging.

But what they have found always end up confirming the truth of the Tenach narrative.

Lack of historical 'proofs' never phases us shlomei emunei Yisroel in the slightest!


 

[wonga66]

While we're on the subject of proofs, I challenge you to cast any aspersions on the factual proof of 100 FACTS ABOUT THE NEGRO which is found on all KKK and neo-Nazi websites.

Perhaps you can't and won't because you fear the ramifications of them all being true.

I can give a whole drosho on the Negro, from a Torah perspective. I have already quoted the 3rd Lubavitcher Rebbe quoting Zecharya 13:8, that the Bnei Cham (Negroes, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans etc) [most of them anyway!] will not exist in the future Messianic Age, when Noach's klolloh will be fulfilled!