Author Topic: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT  (Read 15782 times)

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Offline IsraelForever

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Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
« Reply #150 on: September 21, 2010, 05:00:38 PM »
It is my humble opinion that who would have guessed, based on the the very first post, that this would turn out to be one of the most interesting and informative threads?  From lemons you do sometimes get lemonade.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
« Reply #151 on: September 21, 2010, 06:01:42 PM »
EVERYBODY STOP

 >:( >:( >:(


JUST STOP.

THIS IS A STUPID WASTE OF EVERYONE'S TIME AND ENERGY.


THE REASON FOR THE CREATION OF THIS THREAD WAS VALID.   NOW IT HAS SPIRALED INTO DOG SH*T---

AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

WHAT PURPOSE?

No further understanding ever arises from these threads.  People's minds never change about their core beliefs here and people leave feeling (rightly) disrespected.  Incidently, most of the people viewing this thread are "guests!"

« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 06:26:24 PM by JTFenthusiast2 »

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
« Reply #152 on: September 21, 2010, 06:47:49 PM »
Ari Shayn and others on the forum who find derogatory comments about Jews in the New Testament to be a personal affront,

I believe you are viewing this situation with 'myopic' vision, and here's why:
All of the quotes in your list are indeed found in the NT, but if a new religious offshoot is to become founded and break away from an established mother faith, how else can such be accomplished without its founder or founders insisting that the earlier faith is wrong, it's followers misled, and its' rites and rituals outdated?  This pattern of development has been the same throughout history.  Abraham decried those who bowed before idols.  There are more than a few passages in Jewish Scriptures such as those describing Philistines as "uncircumcised dogs", proscriptions against non-Jews joining in Shabbos, prohibitions against non-Jews participating in Temple rites, etc... .   Gautama Buddha began a new way of life and thought rejecting the Hindu Vedas and the Hindu faith of his native India, teaching his followers that nothing of value could be gained by following the Brahmin Priests or practicing asceticism.  Islam denounces any and all thoughts or philosophies which came before it or appeared after it.  The 20th Century Religion called Marxism denounces all religion other than that worshipping the State and its Leader, and considers itself the World To Come already on Earth.  Now, with Marxism mostly discredited, we see the Green and Global mindset denouncing all which opposes its views on mankind's relations to our planet.  This has always gone on and always will, as it reflects the human condition.

Jews should view Christianity as it exists today  -- in terms of the spiritual and material condition of the millions of Gentiles prior to their acceptance of the Christian faith.  They were for the most part unschooled and unwashed pagans and heathens lost in a world of total spiritual darkness.  They worshipped everything from the Sun to trees, bowed before numerous amoral gods carved in stone, had no regard for human life, and lived in tribal groups at war with each other.  Homosexuality was widely accepted and practiced, and women gave birth out of wedlock with no guilt or sense of sin.  Intelligent non-Jews in ancient times who became exposed to Torah and The Temple in Jerusalem while on their travels very often were attracted to the Jewish faith, but most found the Law difficult to observe, and were often confounded by the complex nature of Jewish metaphysics.

Regardless of doctrinal differences with its Jewish parent faith, the Christian faith started as a Jewish cult which believed the Moshiach had arrived.  All of its early disciples and most of its earliest adherents were Jews, and only Jews were allowed to join the group.  Even the disciple Luke first converted to Judaism in order to then be allowed to follow Jesus.  The Apostle Paul, originally known as Saul of Tarsus, was affiliated with the Temple in Jerusalem until his sudden conversion to become a follower of Jesus, and the Church of Rome was founded by the Jew Peter, now known as St. Peter the first Pope.  All of the first disciples demanded the Kosher Laws be kept, and continued to worship at the Temple.  Paul was told by the other disciples that if he was going to ignore the Kosher Laws and Temple worship and accept "any version" of Christian faith from gentiles throughout the world, that he would have to do so far away from the Land of Israel, for the actual disciples insisted on keeping almost all of Judaism.

Eventually the two divided sects split permanently from each other, the "non-Kosher version of Jesus" taught by Paul spread throughout the world and succeeded; the original Jewish followers of Jesus became outnumbered by later converts to "Paulism" vanished - lost to antiquity and forgotten.

Even so, the Christian world today still considers itself as the "fulfillment" of the Jewish Covenant, and as such it claims the Jewish Torah, the Abrahamic Covenant, and the Law of Moses as the foundation of its faith.  Jewish objections to the Church Leaders' misinterpretation and mistranslation of the Jewish Scriptures are well known, and it is true that there are verses in the New Testament which are in large part responsible for "Anti-Semitism" and its pogroms, persecutions, and Holocaust.  But educated and intelligent modern Christians acknowledge that they would still be lost in pagan darkness without their Christian teachings of G-d and salvation, for they believe that G-d Chose the Jewish People to receive His Law and to give the world its Saviour.

It is a truly disheartening thing to admit, but were it not for Christian Zionists today throughout all branches and denominations of Christendom, Israel and the Jews would have little support.  Christians far outnumber Jews in the percentage of Zionist supporters among them.

Yes, it's true that these same Christians prefer everyone become Christian, but they believe that the creation of the State of Israel is a fulfillment of the Torah prophecies which were reiterated by Jesus and taught to his followers as the signs to watch for which would herald Moshiach's appearance.
 
If one removes the doctrinal differences separating believing Jews from believing Christians, it becomes apparent that the two faiths are closer than they are apart.



Offline cjd

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Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT
« Reply #153 on: September 21, 2010, 07:03:07 PM »
Wow.... This thread should come with a disclaimer....Example.... Unless people attempting to read this thread are halfway in the bag they should stay out for their own well being!!
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline Lisa

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Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
« Reply #154 on: September 21, 2010, 07:18:25 PM »
Sorry I'm late for the "party."

First off, it's one thing to not like the Roman Catholic Church or the most recent Pope.  I'm no fan of either, and I understand Jews who dislike them as well.  Now we need to remember the difference between the RCC, and individual Catholics, and most importantly, our wonderful Catholic members like Masterwolf, Bullcat3, CJD and Italian Zionist, among others. 

Masterwolf has been with JTF from the very beginning, I believe.  He has always supported Chaim, Israel and this movement.  The Catholic members here are NOT the Mel Gibson types.  So Ron, even though you don't like the Pope, personally attacking Masterwolf was totally uncalled for.   If you don't believe in working with Christians, that's fine.  But out of respect for Chaim, who pays the bills here, and with whom you have a difference of opinion on this matter, I'm asking that you keep your posts civil from now on. 

Anyway, regarding these threads about Christianity vs. Judaism, I think after a certain point, it's just beating a dead horse.  By now, we know what our differences are.  So why not just focus on the areas where we're in agreement? 



Offline MasterWolf1

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Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
« Reply #155 on: September 21, 2010, 07:23:32 PM »
AL RIGHT AL RIGHT.. The point of this thread was not to point out the difference in faith .. that was not the intention of it.. the Point is that I saw was cause of what was being posted here.. Not to point out the differences in our faith,, You not going to change what anyone else believes in.. http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,49622.0.html this was not to bring out the battle between Christians and Jews.. I can't change no one can what happened in history,, but you learn fro it. THis has been more then once where I see on going of this.. Through this I was insulted by my heritage, what I believe in and being called what I been called no one would tolerate it. Nobody.. Now this was not to bring out the differences in faith..Many people have followed scriptures the way they suppose to be followed and many follow it  the wrong way.. Not every priest is a pedo, I make no excuse for the pope when he was a child.. I think the monsterous of Hitler also brainwashed a lot of children which back then none had a choice but to follow like any psycho people follow..EIther we going to wedge ourselves or we going to be together.. Christians are putting enormous time on this forum not cause they want or have to cause they know to. Ron has a lot of anger management to go through this is not the first he has spoken to people like this.  And if they teach in a certain way in Europe I don't live in Europe I don't know what they do there.  But I know here they don't.  I don't agree with the Church on things like Illegal Immigration.  It is a Latin based Religion.. Via Rome and Spain also adopted the faith and brought it to the Latin countries in this side of the world..  Him calling any of our members whores or calling any one of us Nazis  is completely uncalled for if you don't agree with him.. Is he like the black when confronted they call people Cracka? This Movement is based on both Jews ANNNNND Christians as wall as Hindus coming together to save Israel, To save America and build our mass movement.. You start calling people on this forum Nazi they going to walk a way.
RIGHT WING AMERICAN AND PROUD OF IT. IF YOU WANTED TO PROVE YOU WEREN'T A "RACIST" IN 2008 BY VOTING FOR OBAMA, THEN PROVE IN 2012 YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT FOR VOTING AGAINST OBAMA!

Online Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
« Reply #156 on: September 21, 2010, 10:59:05 PM »
בס''ד

I think we have all made our points here. There are more than 150 posts and 11 pages on this thread. I believe that now we should move on and work together for our common goals.

I am locking this very long thread.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
« Reply #157 on: September 21, 2010, 10:59:59 PM »
Coon, I think this website houses a lot of what Muman is speaking of what he sees in the NT.  To me it is mystifying, to say the least.  I tried to copy and paste the text but due to some tables/charts that did not copy/paste well the original link may be easier to read and comprehend.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html

The Anti-Jewish New Testament
Ari, I like and respect you a lot as a great JTFer but what you and many others are failing to put into historical context is the fact that all of these passages took place in an exclusively Jewish environment. This was an in-house feud amongst Jews (Jews who believed Jesus was the Maschiach vs. those who did not). Gentiles were not in the picture whatsoever yet when these passages were written, and "Christianity" as such was not a separate religion yet, just a branch of Judaism. Therefore people professing to be Christians hundreds of years after the fact that chose to see these in a Jew-hating light not only are defying the message of the rest of the Bible, which clearly states that the Jews continue to be the people of the original promise (the "olive tree" as Paul puts it), but were culturally and historically illiterate as well.