Author Topic: 40% of Americans think marriage is becoming obsolete - 29% of kids have 1 parent  (Read 1087 times)

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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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While the gay activists demand the "right" to call same-sex unions as "marriage," many Americans apparently think marriage is becoming obsolete.   So much for the "american dream," huh?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40239472/ns/health-behavior/

WASHINGTON — Is marriage becoming obsolete?

As families gather for Thanksgiving this year, nearly one in three American children is living with a parent who is divorced, separated or never-married. More people are accepting the view that wedding bells aren't needed to have a family.
Story: If marriage is passé, why do we adore Will and Kate?

A study by the Pew Research Center highlights rapidly changing notions of the American family. And the Census Bureau, too, is planning to incorporate broader definitions of family when measuring poverty, a shift caused partly by recent jumps in unmarried couples living together.

About 29 percent of children under 18 now live with a parent or parents who are unwed or no longer married, a fivefold increase from 1960, according to the Pew report being released Thursday. About 15 percent have parents who are divorced or separated and 14 percent have parents who were never married.Within those two groups, a sizable chunk — 6 percent — have parents who are live-in couples who opted to raise kids together without getting married.

According to the Pew survey, 39 percent of Americans say marriage is becoming obsolete. And that sentiment follows U.S. census data released in September that showed marriages hit an all-time low of 52 percent for adults 18 and over.

Video: William and Kate already living together

In 1978, just 28 percent believed marriage was becoming obsolete.
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When asked what constitutes a family, the vast majority of Americans agree that a married couple, with or without children, fits that description. But four of five surveyed pointed also to an unmarried, opposite-sex couple with children or a single parent. Three out of five people said a same-sex couple with children is a family.

"Marriage is still very important in this country, but it doesn't dominate family life like it used to," said Andrew Cherlin, a professor of sociology and public policy at Johns Hopkins University. "Now there are several ways to have a successful family life, and more people accept them."

The broadening views of family are expected to have an impact at Thanksgiving. About nine in 10 Americans say they will share a Thanksgiving meal next week with family, sitting at a table with 12 people on average. About one-fourth of respondents said there will be 20 or more family members.

"More Americans are living in these new families, so it seems safe to assume that there will be more of them around the Thanksgiving dinner table," said Paul Taylor, executive vice president of the Pew Research Center.

The changing views of family are being driven largely by young adults 18-29, who are more likely than older generations to have an unmarried or divorced parent or have friends who do. Young adults also tend to have more liberal attitudes when it comes to spousal roles and living together before marriage, the survey found.

But economic factors, too, are playing a role. The Census Bureau recently reported that opposite-sex unmarried couples living together jumped 13 percent this year to 7.5 million. It was a sharp one-year increase that analysts largely attributed to people unwilling to make long-term marriage commitments in the face of persistent unemployment.

Beginning next year, the Census Bureau will publish new, supplemental poverty figures that move away from the traditional concept of family as a husband and wife with two children. It will broaden the definition to include unmarried couples, such as same-sex partners, as well as foster children who are not related by blood or adoption.

Officials say such a move will reduce the number of families and children who are considered poor based on the new supplemental measure, which will be used as a guide for federal and state agencies to set anti-poverty policies. That's because two unmarried partners who live together with children and work are currently not counted by census as a single "family" with higher pooled incomes, but are officially defined as two separate units — one being a single parent and child, the other a single person — who aren't sharing household resources.

"People are rethinking what family means," Cherlin said. "Given the growth, I think we need to accept cohabitation relationships as a basis for some of the fringe benefits offered to families, such as health insurance."

Still, the study indicates that marriage isn't going to disappear anytime soon. Despite a growing view that marriage may not be necessary, 67 percent of Americans are upbeat about the future of marriage and family. That's higher than their optimism for the nation's educational system (50 percent), economy (46 percent) or its morals and ethics (41 percent).

And about half of all currently unmarried adults, 46 percent, say they want to get married. Among those unmarried who are living with a partner, the share rises to 64 percent.

Other findings:

    * 34 percent of Americans called the growing variety of family living arrangements good for society, while 32 percent said it didn't make a difference and 29 percent said it was troubling.
    * 44 percent of people said they have lived with a partner without being married; for 30-to-49-year-olds, that share rose to 57 percent. In most cases, those couples said they considered cohabitation as a step toward marriage.
    * 62 percent said that the best marriage is one where the husband and wife both work and both take care of the household and children. That's up from 48 percent who held that view in 1977.

The Pew study was based on interviews with 2,691 adults by cell phone or landline from Oct. 1-21. The survey has a total margin of error of plus or minus 2.6 percentage points, larger for subgroups. Pew also analyzed 2008 census data, and used surveys conducted by Time magazine to identify trends from earlier decades.

Offline Meerkat

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the good news is that de-facto marriage is nowhere near obsolete with 75% +- still considering their family as central to their life.

Offline Kerber

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First so called "post-marriage" city in Europe,may be in the World, is Stockholm.Only about 30% in Stockholm lives in families based on marriage.And that's a picture of hole Europe.That's why Europeans are disappearing.No families ,no kids.

Haiti and Indonesia are models how similar societies will be punished for immorality.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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There are non-married couples where the "partners" raise children, are faithful to each other because they love each other, and, generally speaking, manage to create a stable and caring family environment. These couples are de facto much closer to the ideal of marriage than the many married couples where the husband and the wife cheat on each other or neglect their children. Marriage in itself is not the guarantee of a righteous and loving family environment. Some people marry and then live in lie or hypocrisy. And a large proportion of marriages end up in divorce.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Haiti and Indonesia are models how similar societies will be punished for immorality.

Do you believe that the cause of the earthquake in Haiti is that G-d wanted to inflict a collective punishment on the Haitians for their immorality ?

Offline Kerber

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There are non-married couples where the "partners" raise children, are faithful to each other because they love each other, and, generally speaking, manage to create a stable and caring family environment. These couples are de facto much closer to the ideal of marriage than the many married couples where the husband and the wife cheat on each other or neglect their children. Marriage in itself is not the guarantee of a righteous and loving family environment. Some people marry and then live in lie or hypocrisy. And a large proportion of marriages end up in divorce.
Yes, but that's another question - why marriage is not functioning.Non-functioning of marriage can't be the reason to say that marriage is bad and obsolete.That's eternal.

Today many people are getting married for the wrong reasons - a man finds a sexual object, and a women finds someone who will indulge her and play clown for her.And so it makes an illusion of "love" and "marriage" which practically makes it as a legalized prostitution.Motives for real love and creation of new people doesn't exist, because new generations are raised on Darwinism and evolution.

Offline Kerber

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Haiti and Indonesia are models how similar societies will be punished for immorality.

Do you believe that the cause of the earthquake in Haiti is that G-d wanted to inflict a collective punishment on the Haitians for their immorality ?

Yes.

To be more clear... When father let his daughter to get into pre-marriage relations with no desire of getting married, and surrounding grown up people do nothing ,then other girls see that and wants to do the same.Then it becomes normal and legal behavior implemented in law system.That's a collective responsibility for the disease called sin.That's why a society who has the knowledge about it gets occupied by those who are worse  or a "natural disasters" start to clean the diseased society.
Haiti is full of occultism and Indonesia is world's sex attraction where sick people can have a child(or even an animal) for a hole day for just a small amount of money.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 03:00:48 AM by Kerber »

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Haiti and Indonesia are models how similar societies will be punished for immorality.

Do you believe that the cause of the earthquake in Haiti is that G-d wanted to inflict a collective punishment on the Haitians for their immorality ?

Yes.

But you are well aware that earthquakes can be physically explained without the need to assume a divine intervention, and that the physical explanation can be verified, unlike the assumption of a divine intervention ?

Let's assume, though, that the earthquake in Haiti is divine justice. I have to say I find this notion of justice difficult to understand for two main reasons :
1) Not all the people who died in the earthquake were so immoral as to deserve such punishment. There were among them many ordinary people who were quite poor and uneducated, but that doen't make them evil; what crimes did these simple folks commit ? It is even likely that a few of the people who died must have been "good" persons, at least people with a good heart and some form of compassion. Why would it be "just" to punish them ? How just is it to punish someone who is not guilty ?
2) There are many, many "immoral" persons, guilty of hideous crimes, who do not receive divine punishment in this world. How "just" is it, then, that they are not punished ?

I believe in G-d. I believe that there is a perfect divine justice - although I do admit that there is no way to prove this and so I would never try to impose my belief on non-believers. But divine justice is for the next world, for the world to come, not for the world we live in. Otherwise, how can one explain that there is so much injustice in this world ?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 04:39:10 AM by yaakov mendel »

Offline Dr. Dan

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What we need are marriages where families work hard on being functional. It's hard work. Many Americans have become lazy and dysfunctional and watch too much over sexed television which makes them believe abnormal things are cool. Don't forget many minds have been poisoned by the filth on tv.

Natural disasters are intended by Gd as judgements for something. However me Herbert nor yaacov are not prophets to be sure exactly why Gd judged a nation with a disaster. We can speculate but that's all it is. Saudi family is rich. Does that mean Gd rewarded them for being righteous Israel hating Muslims?  A decent family was murdered and raped. Does that mean they were judged for being evil? I mean come on. Nobody has answers to why good things happen to bad people and evil nations and the opposite the other way around. You can speculate but can't five a definitive answer.

As far as the way Gd wants us to be. He wants us to use free will. If He rewarded someone everytime he was righteous and punished someone everytime he was evil people would behave based on these actions. Gd wants us to act righteous out of no reward but out if common sense and free will. Besides doesn't it feel better when you work hard to do the right things in life once you know right from wrong. Doesn't it feel food to give to charity for example. Isn't it embarrassing when you slight someone who didn't deserve it for your own personal gain? 

So that brings us to families. 42% are oblivious and lazy. It is far more rewarding to make a marriage work even if it is hard work. One should feel embarrassed if he is too lazy to get married or waste his life just cohabiting with someone or have kids out of wedlock. Some divorces are justified. Some marriages are unjustified. The high numbers of dysfunctionality is tv's fault along with American society worshipping dysfunctional groups of people and all of you know who I'm talking about.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Natural disasters are intended by Gd as judgements for something.

How do you know ? And how could such flawed justice be consistent with the notion that G-d is perfect ?
I find it more logical to think that natural disasters have nothing to do with G-d's will. These natural phenomena can be scientifically explained anyway, so why suppose there is divine intervention ?


Offline Dr. Dan

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Natural disasters are intended by Gd as judgements for something.

How do you know ? And how could such flawed justice be consistent with the notion that G-d is perfect ?
I find it more logical to think that natural disasters have nothing to do with G-d's will. These natural phenomena can be scientifically explained anyway, so why suppose there is divine intervention ?



because Gd is beyond all powerful. He does all things on purpose even is I don't have explanation for it.

Do you mean to tell us that doesn't have control over nature? that even nature is a free for all?  Gd knows what the future will be. He knows how everything from humans to protons will move.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Natural disasters are intended by Gd as judgements for something.
How do you know ? And how could such flawed justice be consistent with the notion that G-d is perfect ?
I find it more logical to think that natural disasters have nothing to do with G-d's will. These natural phenomena can be scientifically explained anyway, so why suppose there is divine intervention ?

because Gd is beyond all powerful. He does all things on purpose even is I don't have explanation for it.

Do you mean to tell us that doesn't have control over nature? that even nature is a free for all?  Gd knows what the future will be. He knows how everything from humans to protons will move.

What I mean is that I think it is a big mistake to say that all the catastrophes that cause cruel suffering, whether they be natural catastrophes or catastrophes caused by human behavior, are the manifestation of a divine justice. Big mistake because it is inconsistent both with the notion that G-d's justice is perfect and with the existence of free will (in the case of catastrophes brought about by human behavior).

Offline Secularbeliever

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While the gay activists demand the "right" to call same-sex unions as "marriage," many Americans apparently think marriage is becoming obsolete.   So much for the "american dream," huh?<<

The gay argument is that marriage is not so sacred, look at its current state with Britney Spears getting married on a lark.  It is sort of a two wrongs make it right argument.

We all need to pray for Barack Obama, may the Lord provide him a safe move back to Chicago in January 2,013.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Quote from: yaakov mendel lin :dance:k=topic=50921.msg482023#msg482023 date=1290169190
Natural disasters are intended by Gd as judgements for something.
How do you know ? And how could such flawed justice be consistent with the notion that G-d is perfect ?
I find it more logical to think that natural disasters have nothing to do with G-d's will. These natural phenomena can be scientifically explained anyway, so why suppose there is divine intervention ?

because Gd is beyond all powerful. He does all things on purpose even is I don't have explanation for it.

Do you mean to tell us that doesn't have control over nature? that even nature is a free for all?  Gd knows what the future will be. He knows how everything from humans to protons will move.

What I mean is that I think it is a big mistake to say that all the catastrophes that cause cruel suffering, whether they be natural catastrophes or catastrophes caused by human behavior, are the manifestation of a divine justice. Big mistake because it is inconsistent both with the notion that G-d's justice is perfect and with the existence of free will (in the case of catastrophes brought about by human behavior).




I disagree. Everything that happens is on purpose and we have free will. There are no coincidences. Even if we can't explain it.

To pass judgement that a disaster was due to a specific thing is debatable. Nobody here is a prophet to read Gd's "mind"   we are only able to speculate only knowing we might be wrong.

Everything that happens is Gd's will. And we have free will to live right or live wrong. And when exercise free will to do right despite the outcomes in this life or the next it is looked upon favorably and even courageously especially todays evil time.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Lisa

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Here's the thing about the modern state of marriage today.  On the one hand, it's nothing but a year long narcissistic orgy for Bridezillas.  These women go on and on about how nerve racking it is to plan their "big day" and how they're always SOOOO busy, and how everything must be their way.  These are women who sue their florists if their orchids are not the exact shade they want!  For them, the wedding is all about being Miss America, or an Oscar Winner for the day.  It's never about vowing to G-d that you'll spend a lifetime with your spouse and make a family.  Instead, it's about working out, so they can show off their bodies in increasingly immodest wedding "gowns," which look more like negligees.

As for the men, I can't say what exactly goes on inside their heads, since I'm a woman.  But I get the impression that quite a few of them agree to marriage when they've been nagged enough by their girlfriends, who already put out for them by the first, or third dates at the latest. 

As for why marriage is becoming obsolete, it's because there's no longer a stigma attached to sex out of wedlock.  My experience has been that your average guy (not a religious Jew) wants a woman who's been "broken in" already.  (Pun intended!)  So much for modesty...


Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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It's funny how the people who don't give a s*** about commitment, values, and purity have no problem getting anyone they want as a partner, while the people who really want to get married can't find anybody.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Here's the thing about the modern state of marriage today.  On the one hand, it's nothing but a year long narcissistic orgy for Bridezillas.  These women go on and on about how nerve racking it is to plan their "big day" and how they're always SOOOO busy, and how everything must be their way.  These are women who sue their florists if their orchids are not the exact shade they want!  For them, the wedding is all about being Miss America, or an Oscar Winner for the day.  It's never about vowing to G-d that you'll spend a lifetime with your spouse and make a family.  Instead, it's about working out, so they can show off their bodies in increasingly immodest wedding "gowns," which look more like negligees.

As for the men, I can't say what exactly goes on inside their heads, since I'm a woman.  But I get the impression that quite a few of them agree to marriage when they've been nagged enough by their girlfriends, who already put out for them by the first, or third dates at the latest. 

As for why marriage is becoming obsolete, it's because there's no longer a stigma attached to sex out of wedlock.  My experience has been that your average guy (not a religious Jew) wants a woman who's been "broken in" already.  (Pun intended!)  So much for modesty...



There are a lot of these types of women and men too..The get all ready for the "Big day" when in reality, the big day is everyday thereafter.  Our society needs a morality makeover!
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Dr. Dan

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It's funny how the people who don't give a s*** about commitment, values, and purity have no problem getting anyone they want as a partner, while the people who really want to get married can't find anybody.

it's because those people settle on anything that moves while others are too picky and unrealistic.  Sometimes the person looking has to look within himself/herself  and realize that he/she isn't perfect either and might have to compromise on a few things..

Aside from being the same religion and compatible families, the most important thing is to have a faithful loving spouse who will be a great parent one day and is able to resolve arguments before bedtime.  All the rest is commentary.

If our grandparents were able to do it and they were young and inexperienced and were matched randomly, then why can't modern current day human beings?  because modern current day human beings are a bunch of spoiled low life brats who are self-centered and more retarded than someone born with a low IQ!

But marriage isn't for everyone..and for those people, it really should be a tiny minority of them in my opinion.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Lisa

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Now I don't mean to sound like a feminazi, but in our grandparents day when people were matched by their families, if someone was unhappy, he or she would have still had to stay in that marriage. 

Offline Maimonides

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Now I don't mean to sound like a feminazi, but in our grandparents day when people were matched by their families, if someone was unhappy, he or she would have still had to stay in that marriage. 

Very true, it was only until recently in the past 100 years or so that the idea of selecting a partner through DATING became the norm. Arranged marriages for economic reasons between families were the rule in the West, and still are the rule in many parts of the world.

“You must accept the truth from whatever source it comes”- Maimonides

Offline Dr. Dan

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Now I don't mean to sound like a feminazi, but in our grandparents day when people were matched by their families, if someone was unhappy, he or she would have still had to stay in that marriage. 

in some cases yes..I'm not sure how our grandparents did it, but they did it..and almost always were the glue of the family and looked up to.

I'm not saying marriage is easy...it's very difficult especially in the beginning.  But you have to work through it just like our "unhappy" grandparents did.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Dr. Dan

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Now I don't mean to sound like a feminazi, but in our grandparents day when people were matched by their families, if someone was unhappy, he or she would have still had to stay in that marriage. 

Very true, it was only until recently in the past 100 years or so that the idea of selecting a partner through DATING became the norm. Arranged marriages for economic reasons between families were the rule in the West, and still are the rule in many parts of the world.



and it happens today in many western societies...parents will try to match up their children because the other family is "rich".  It sometimes works out...but a lot of the time it doesn't because there is no love...and you need that.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Secularbeliever

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It's funny how the people who don't give a s*** about commitment, values, and purity have no problem getting anyone they want as a partner, while the people who really want to get married can't find anybody.

It seems very straightforward to me.  If anybody will do in a pinch, if you view a liasson as something that only has meaning for tonight, and if you find women who feel the same, it is not difficult to find a partner.  If you are particular it is much harder.  I used to have a friend who dated unattractive women, almost on purpose.  He was objectively speaking, much less desirable than I was but he had many more dates and more companionship than I did.  Then again I was not jealous, seeing what he was getting.
We all need to pray for Barack Obama, may the Lord provide him a safe move back to Chicago in January 2,013.