debating a boulshavic

[The proud Jew]

i was debating a boulshavic a couple days ago and i was dumbfounded when the man stated why dont hareidim go into the army or go to work? I was never educated in this issue so i said i dont kno. What should have my response have been?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

i was debating a boulshavic a couple days ago and i was dumbfounded when the man stated why dont hareidim go into the army or go to work? I was never educated in this issue so i said i dont kno. What should have my response have been?

Well, it's a legitimate question, but not all religious Jews are haredim.  Many religious zionists work for a living and go to the army.   And some haredim also do that.   The settlement modiin illit is full of haredim who work.

He'd have a better argument if the army was not used to destroy shuls and settlements, but since it is, why should anyone serve?  Haredi or no haredi.

[muman613]

A7 just ran a story about how many Haredim men go into the Israeli intelligence units...
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/141359

Hareidi Men Join IDF Intelligence
Tevet 20, 5771, 27 December 10 01:15
by Maayana Miskin

(Israelnationalnews.com) Eighty hareidi-religious men joined the ranks of IDF intelligence this week, becoming the largest group to do so in the history of the “Bina B'Yarok” (Intelligence in Green) program to bring hareidim into the corps.

The new inductees represent a 25% increase in hareidi-religious presence in the Intelligence Corp.

They will begin work in a variety of positions, working with communications, computers, GIS systems, and in research. Most will work with computers or in communications.

Young men from a variety of streams within the hareidi-religious community enlisted with Bina B'Yarok. Some are from the chassidic Gur and Sanz groups, others are Sephardi, and still others are “Litvaks,” members of communities based in European Jewish traditions.

The recruits came from cities across the country, including hareidi-religious strongholds like Beitar Illit and Modiin Illit (Kiryat Sefer) where IDF enlistment is often discouraged.

Commanding officer Major Yoram Dan explained that the Bina B'Yarok program is designed with the haredi soldiers' unique needs in mind. The soldiers serve exclusively with men, are provided with food that meets demanding kosher specifications, and are given time to pray each afternoon, he said.

“Our goal is to make more options available for hareidi recruits,” he added.

Hareidi soldiers still face challenges, Dan admitted. The main challenge is simply joining the program, a “socio-psychological” challenge for many, he said. Some of the soldiers are from communities where full-time Torah learning is strongly preferred over IDF service, he said, adding, “We have soldiers who need to change out of uniform on the train [home].”

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Joining the first army since the Nazi Wehrmacht to violently ethnically cleanse Jews, this time turning their own homeland into a Muslim Nazi Judenrein, is atrocious.  

[Yaakov Mendel]

Joining the first army since the Nazi Wehrmacht to violently ethnically cleanse Jews, this time turning their own homeland into a Muslim Nazi Judenrein, is atrocious.  

With Israelis such as you, refusing to serve in the army out of ideological purity, Israel would have been crushed by the Arabs long ago...

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Joining the first army since the Nazi Wehrmacht to violently ethnically cleanse Jews, this time turning their own homeland into a Muslim Nazi Judenrein, is atrocious.  

With Israelis such as you, refusing to serve in the army out of ideological purity, Israel would have been crushed by the Arabs long ago...

A little riddle for you, Yaakov: what was the IDF's first succesful operation since its foundation on May 31th 1948?

[Yaakov Mendel]

Joining the first army since the Nazi Wehrmacht to violently ethnically cleanse Jews, this time turning their own homeland into a Muslim Nazi Judenrein, is atrocious.  

With Israelis such as you, refusing to serve in the army out of ideological purity, Israel would have been crushed by the Arabs long ago...

A little riddle for you, Yaakov: what was the IDF's first succesful operation since its foundation on May 31th 1948?

If I'm not mistaken, I think it was the Altalena killing, which disgusts me as much as you...

[Yaakov Mendel]

Ron,

Obviously I hate expulsions of Jews and I would never obey any antisemitic order, obviously I am strongly opposed to the leftist ideology that prevails in the IDF and its ugly consequences such as Jews being murdered to protect so-called Arab "civilians"... The IDF is not at all a Jewish army.
My point is just that, unfortunately, I can't see how Israel could defend itself against a large-scale coordinated Arab military offensive tomorrow if all Israelis refuse to serve and to be trained in the IDF, albeit for good reasons. When Kahanists take power in Israel, the IDF will undergo major changes. But until then, is there really a choice ? It seems to me that the best call is still to serve in the army but to refuse to obey any antisemitic order. I am not saying it is easy...

[cjd]

Ron,

Obviously I hate expulsions of Jews and I would never obey any antisemitic order, obviously I am strongly opposed to the leftist ideology that prevails in the IDF and its ugly consequences such as Jews being murdered to protect so-called Arab "civilians"... The IDF is not at all a Jewish army.
My point is just that, unfortunately, I can't see how Israel could defend itself against a large-scale coordinated Arab military offensive tomorrow if all Israelis refuse to serve and to be trained in the IDF, albeit for good reasons. When Kahanists take power in Israel, the IDF will undergo major changes. But until then, is there really a choice ? It seems to me that the best call is still to serve in the army but to refuse to obey any antisemitic order. I am not saying it is easy...

The correct solution has to be something other then not serving in the IDF...  It's always easier to work on a problem from the inside... By some people with pro Jewish values refusing to serve the situation will only become more problematic...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Joining the first army since the Nazi Wehrmacht to violently ethnically cleanse Jews, this time turning their own homeland into a Muslim Nazi Judenrein, is atrocious.  

While this may be true, most haredim who are not serving in the army do so for other reason(s) (sociological and 'religious') and really are not interested in what you wrote there.   So let's face facts about that.