Author Topic: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?  (Read 5169 times)

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Offline edu

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In the first 2 plagues of the ten plagues, the magicians of power were able on a very limited scale to reproduce the plagues through their own methods.
Only at the 3rd plague did they admit that it was the finger of the L-rd and not magic, since they had no ability to make this plague in any way.
Rashi hints at an answer, why G-d gave them this power for the first 2 plagues, but I'd like to hear your answers.

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2010, 04:13:43 PM »
So that they could understand that the plagues were the finger of Hashem..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2010, 04:15:01 PM »
http://www.torah.org/learning/parsha-insights/5764/vaera.html

The Source and Sorcerers
By: Rabbi Yisroel Ciner


Some people just don't get it... They fixate on the details along the way without realizing where things are headed...

In this week's parsha, Va'era, the plagues, and the essential messages they contained about Hashem and His interaction with the world, are brought upon Paroah and Egypt. The message of the first three plagues was, as the passuk {verse} states: "With this you will know that I am Hashem. [7:17]"

Blood and frogs, the first two plagues, attacked the Nile River that the Egyptians revered and worshiped. The Nile was viewed as their very life- source as it provided drinking and bathing water, irrigation for their crops and a steady supply of fish. By transforming this Nile-god into a malodorous bloodbath and then into the generator of frog-induced pain and suffering, Hashem was clearly showing that He, and only He, is the true G-d and source of power.

The third plague, lice, also proved this same point but in a different way. Whereas the Egyptian sorcerers were able to duplicate the first two plagues, their inability to produce lice led them to openly proclaim: "This is the finger of G-d." Once again, "that I am Hashem."

At first glance, the Egyptian sorcerers turning water to blood and then bringing out frogs seems to present a difficulty. Why would Hashem make a miracle/plague that could so easily be imitated? Wouldn't it be better to inflict upon them plagues that couldn't be parroted?

Imagine someone taking a hard punch to the face. He then stands up and belligerently taunts his attacker: "You think you're so strong? You think you can hit hard? I'll show you a real hard punch!" and then proceeds to hit himself even harder in the face...

The plagues were not a competition of wizardry. They came to teach enduring lessons to the world. The first two plagues taught that those entities through which we receive blessings are not sources, but rather, conduits. Though we must appreciate them for the blessings that flow through them, we cannot allow them to distract us from acknowledging the true source. If they obscure that acknowledgment then they will be degraded.

The sorcerers got a bit fixated on the details along the way . . . They also turned the water into blood. They also brought forth the frogs. But they didn't realize that they were simply hitting themselves in the face. They too were clearly showing that the Nile was not a power source and could therefore be degraded. Their acts didn't diminish, but rather, strengthened the plague.

It's easy to mock the sorcerers but we too fixate on the details along the way without realizing where things are headed...

The parable is given of a person moving to Israel who will be stopping in Spain for a few days in transit. In preparation for this momentous move, he spends months learning the language and acquainting himself with the geography and customs of . . . Spain.

Each individual, on their life-long path toward the recognition "that I am Hashem. [7:17]," must be careful not to get too fixated on the details along the way.

Good Shabbos,

Yisroel Ciner
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 04:24:30 PM »
Good question, edu.

I should think about this more (and I don't remember the rashi there), but I think it would have something to do with showing everyone (Jews and Egyptians included - although a much more difficult belief for the Egyptians to swallow) that all powers, even the magic that Egyptian magicians were performing, ultimately comes from Hashem.  He created the world with a certain natural mechanism through which nature can be manipulated ("magic" or whatever other means - today it's genetic engineering and such), and He is also able to manipulate it Himself outside of nature.   The subsequent plagues which magicians cannot replicate drive that point home to show that ultimately all the plagues had the same Source.    This is a powerful teaching about how to relate to nature to always see it as manifestation of Hashem's will.

The Egyptian society was steeped in idol worship and magical craft was considered some kind of expert discipline.   It would be most difficult for them to accept that those magicians have no special powers, and this point is illustrated to them with the plagues.

It is still difficult to understand precisely what the 'magic' was, just how effective it was (or what kind of actual "power" it had), given the Rambam's assertion that there is no such thing as magic!   I'm not completely sure how he understood these verses.  

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 04:43:45 PM »
Good question, edu.

I should think about this more (and I don't remember the rashi there), but I think it would have something to do with showing everyone (Jews and Egyptians included - although a much more difficult belief for the Egyptians to swallow) that all powers, even the magic that Egyptian magicians were performing, ultimately comes from Hashem.  He created the world with a certain natural mechanism through which nature can be manipulated ("magic" or whatever other means - today it's genetic engineering and such), and He is also able to manipulate it Himself outside of nature.   The subsequent plagues which magicians cannot replicate drive that point home to show that ultimately all the plagues had the same Source.    This is a powerful teaching about how to relate to nature to always see it as manifestation of Hashem's will.

The Egyptian society was steeped in idol worship and magical craft was considered some kind of expert discipline.   It would be most difficult for them to accept that those magicians have no special powers, and this point is illustrated to them with the plagues.

It is still difficult to understand precisely what the 'magic' was, just how effective it was (or what kind of actual "power" it had), given the Rambam's assertion that there is no such thing as magic!   I'm not completely sure how he understood these verses.  

This is what I said when I posted above that the sorcerers were able to duplicate the 1st two plagues so that the Egyptians could see that it was the finger of Hashem...


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 04:50:11 PM »

This discussion talks about this question a little..


http://www.vbm-torah.org/pesach/pes68-mtmachshava.htm

I.          Be-Yad Chazaka - The Pivotal Role of the Plague of "Dever"

The Hagadda cites a pasuk from Shemot perek 9 which quotes the Egyptian sorcerers as attributing the plague to the "hand of G-d."  This phraseology affirms the association between the plague of dever and the phrase "yad chazaka" (strong hand).  What is less obvious is the spotlighting of dever as opposed to the other nine makkot.  Why does the pasuk in Ki Tavo specifically underscore the plague of dever? Interestingly, the midrash in Shemot Rabba parasha 10 cites R. Yehoshua ben Levi, who asserts that every plague was accompanied by dever, further affirming an influential role for the plague of dever.  What makes this plague "stand out" from the others and why is this special motif captured by the phrase "yad Hashem?"

In truth, attacking the animal herds of Egypt was not merely an assault on a chief economic asset.  Since the Egyptians worshipped their animals, it was an offensive against the Egyptian deity as part of Hashem's continuing demonstration of the futility of Egyptian theology.  Hashem had promised Moshe (Shemot 12) "I will indict the Egyptian gods" and ultimately Egyptian animals would be slaughtered as pascal offerings on the night of deliverance.  In this respect, dever is an early forerunner of the korban pesach and deserves special notice.

Beyond the direct comment upon the specific Egyptian form of animal worship, dever may provide an overall statement about monotheism and an unknowable G-d.  In addition to discrediting animal worship, Ha-Kadosh Barukh Hu wanted to debunk paganism in general and display monotheism as a truer alternative.  A tenet of monotheism is the belief in an invisible G-d which cannot be seen and whose essence is in no way physical or human-like.  The plague of dever was the only plague which was completely "invisible."  During each plague, the catalyst was visible and palpable (frogs, blood, wild animals, boils, etc.), but the microbe that infected and ravaged the Egyptian herds was not discernable to the human eye.  In this respect, dever was a perfect lesson to the Egyptians regarding an invisible world.  The plague is referred to as the "hand of G-d" because it educated the Egyptians that G-d has no discernable elements; his hand is UNSEEN and UNKNOWABLE.  Associating dever with the "hand of G-d" illustrates a unique message encapsulated in the heart of this plague.

In truth, this message was already initiated during the plague of kinim/lice.  Although the lice were visible, they were too small to truly discern naturally; they heralded the evolution of a completely invisible plague of death.  Already at this early stage, the Egyptian magicians struggled to reproduce this event and referred to it as "the finger of G-d."  As Rashi reminds us, their magic was ineffective regarding items smaller than barley seeds.  Their magical pagan rites were anchored in a visible and material world; as the plagues diminished in size, their magic failed.  Ultimately, the hand of G-d as experienced through dever reminded the Egyptians that G-d has no hand, nor even any fingers.

If kinim presaged dever, the plague of Bechorot succeeded it.  Each produced absolute death and not mere suffering, and in each instance the cause of death was invisible.    The final pasuk in the Torah alludes to "u-le-chol ha-yad ha-chazakah u-le-chol ha-morah ha-gadol…" Chazal (in the Sifrei) interpret this second iteration of "yad chazaka" as a reference to makat bechorot.  Both dever and bechorot deal death to the Egyptians in an unseen fashion and each reinforces the notion of a non-physical G-d.  The same phrase - yad chazaka – which encapsulates dever in parashat Ki Tavo describes bechorot in the final pasuk of the Torah.  
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 11:42:32 PM »
Good question, edu.

I should think about this more (and I don't remember the rashi there), but I think it would have something to do with showing everyone (Jews and Egyptians included - although a much more difficult belief for the Egyptians to swallow) that all powers, even the magic that Egyptian magicians were performing, ultimately comes from Hashem.  He created the world with a certain natural mechanism through which nature can be manipulated ("magic" or whatever other means - today it's genetic engineering and such), and He is also able to manipulate it Himself outside of nature.   The subsequent plagues which magicians cannot replicate drive that point home to show that ultimately all the plagues had the same Source.    This is a powerful teaching about how to relate to nature to always see it as manifestation of Hashem's will.

The Egyptian society was steeped in idol worship and magical craft was considered some kind of expert discipline.   It would be most difficult for them to accept that those magicians have no special powers, and this point is illustrated to them with the plagues.

It is still difficult to understand precisely what the 'magic' was, just how effective it was (or what kind of actual "power" it had), given the Rambam's assertion that there is no such thing as magic!   I'm not completely sure how he understood these verses.  

This is what I said when I posted above that the sorcerers were able to duplicate the 1st two plagues so that the Egyptians could see that it was the finger of Hashem...



Oh.  Well good, then.

I wasn't sure what you had meant by that.   But I gave my opinion which maybe is in line with yours anyway.  But with the way you phrase it, one could ask a kashiya:   Ie, if G-d simply wanted to prove that the plagues were the finger of Hashem, so they'd be sure it wasn't magic (which, by the way, is different from what I said above!), then why have the first two easily replicable by egyptian magicians?  Why not just have all 10 as plagues which the egyptian magicians try and fail to replicate?  That would drive the point home even stronger that these plagues are not magic but are from Hashem, if all 10 are something that no one can produce or reproduce.  
But if you agree with what I said above, I think that is the reason to have the first two replicable by magic - to show that magic and any power of manipulation on earth is from the same Source as the natural disaster and great destruction which no one can possibly design or create except G-d.


Btw, I want to elaborate on something from before which may be a chiddush of sorts -   The first two plagues are specifically about reproduction of G-d's wonders. (The magicians reproduced the plague phenomena).   This is a message for us today, modern man, when we see that scientists can take the DNA structure that G-d designed and they "found" and then use it as a template to create new organisms by tweaking it and adjusting to the target genes (also adopting G-d's template for existing genes) they desire to produce proteins out of in the organism.  We know from the story of the plagues in Egypt that this is only one level of creation and one level of manipulation of nature which has been granted to us.  But there is a higher level of creation and manipulation of the world/nature at which G-d operates, which man CANNOT reach, and this is represented to us in the next 8 plagues.   So let no one tell you that creation of new organisms defeats the idea of G-d's existence.  (similarly don't believe that they created organisms "from scratch" because that hasn't happened either - they used an existing template).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 12:04:53 AM by Kahane-Was-Right BT »

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2010, 02:18:57 AM »
Yes, I understand what you are saying. You are asking why did Hashem not allow them to reproduce any of the plagues and they would have also understood that it was the finger of Hashem.

That is a good question. But I think it may work like this {this is my own understanding}...

I have learned that Hashem is the reason the Hebrews descended into bondage in Egypt. It was part and parcel with the promise Hashem made to Abraham at the covenant of the parts, when he said that your descendants would be oppressed strangers in a strange land. Hashem decreed this for the Children of Israel as a sort of crucible in which to strengthen the people.

But the Egyptians mistook this decree to mean that they should overly oppress the Jews, and throwing babies into the Nile and bathing in their blood was a little too much for Hashem to bear. The deal was that the Jews were supposed to be strangers in a strange land, and oppressed with labor, but the genocide was over the line.

Hashem wanted to bring the plagues on Egypt. Even before Moses went down to Egypt to tell Pharoah 'Let my people go!' Hashem told Moses that he would harden Pharaohs heart. This was essential in order for Hashem to bring the plagues on Egypt. If they relented after the 1st couple of plagues it would have been written off as a coincidence and the Jews would be oppressed even more. Hashem allowed the 1st two plagues to be reproduced by the sorcerers in order for them to ignore them. Meanwhile the people of Egypt and of the world would also count these 2 plagues against Egypt. Today we have people who want to explain all ten plagues as just flukes of nature.

I must say I don't agree with you concerning doing embryonic experiments. Are you trying to imply that scientists today are like sorcerers? The sorcerers believed in false dieties and refuted the existence of a Ribbono Shel Olam. Their magic was in the name of their rams and goats which they worshiped. I would hope that scientists are not compared to these heretics and wicked men.

Quote
Parasha Shemot Chapter 4

21. The Lord said to Moses, "When you go to return to Egypt, see all the signs that I have placed in your hand and perform them before Pharaoh, but I will strengthen his heart, and he will not send out the people.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 02:27:26 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2010, 02:31:14 AM »
Another aspect of what I understand {which is only a little} is this:

Eventually the whole showdown became a contest between Moses and Pharoah. Eventually Pharoah was just being stubborn even though he knew he was wrong. In Pharaohs mind Pharaoh was the master and G-d of Egypt. The plagues came down on Egypt because the people believed that Pharaoh was a G-d.... But some Egyptians eventually did come to know Hashem, those who kept their animals inside on the days of pestilence and the days of hail.

/* once again please change P*a*r*a*s*h*a to p*a*r*s*h*a to get around that pesky filter */

http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/fleisher/chamisha/
Quote
Rashi on verse 10 clearly states that the plague of pestilence only struck those animals that were in the fields. The Ramban and Rabbeinu Bachyei say that pestilence affected the cattle even if they were brought into the Egyptians' homes. The reason the verse says "in the field" is because cattle are commonly found in the field, "dibeir hakosuv b'ho'veh." They bring a proof for this. It says (9:6) that "all" the livestock died. Rashi in 9:10 and 14:7 says that only the cattle left in the field were affected. The Ohr Hachaim Hakodosh says that "all" in verse 6 refers to all that were left in the field.

A strong indication to the opinion of the Ramban and Rabbeinu Bachyei is that the Torah goes to some length and detail by the plague of hail to instruct the Egyptians to bring their cattle to their homes to be spared the devastation of the hail, and here, by Devver, just mentions "which are in the field." If we are to learn one from the other, it should be elaborated upon EARLIER, and have the latter learn from the earlier.

The Rivo, Paanei'ach Rozo, and the Sifsei Chachomim answer according to Rashi that it is common to have pestilence kill herds of cattle. The slightest indication that their cattle could be saved is sufficient to bring the Egyptians to compliance. Not so by the plague of hail. It is very unusual to have such a severe hail storm that would kill all the cattle. This necessitates elaboration. Another indication that the Egyptians were more eager to comply by pestilence is that Rashi 9:10 says that those who feared the word of Hashem took their cattle out of the fields. These were the animals that were left over, of which many were killed during the plague of hail. If only the animals of those who feared the word of Hashem survived, these same people would place their cattle out of harm's way again during the hail. Yet we find that cattle were left in the fields (9:21,25). This shows that more people were persuaded to seek shelter for their cattle during the pestilence than during the hail.

Another possible answer to the elaboration of shelter regarding hail, and only a mention of "that are in the field" regarding pestilence might be derived from an insight brought in the K'hilas Yitzchok. He says that the only shelter afforded during the hail storm was the HOMES of the Egyptians. The verse (9:19) says clearly that the people and animals had to be brought into their HOMES. This is retribution in kind, "midoh k'neged midoh," for the Egyptians forcing the bnei Yisroel to remain away from home at night and to stay with the cattle in barns. Hashem wanted to bring about this punishment during the plague of hail. During the plague of pestilence the verse says "cattle which are in the FIELD" will be smitten. This does not indicate that they need to be brought into the HOMES to be saved. Even if brought into BARNS, the animals are no longer "in the field" and are safe. Therefore it is sufficient to just mention "in the field" by pestilence. To be out of harm's way from hail required specifically bringing the people and the animals into the Egyptians HOMES, hence the elaboration.

http://www.ascentofsafed.com/cgi-bin/ascent.cgi?Name=j1462Plagues

« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 02:38:09 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2010, 03:38:59 AM »
It is late here but I just came across the latest Temple Talk from Israel National News with Rabbi Chaim Richman {of the Temple Institute}.

It has to do with the ideas which I just brought up..

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/2763

Audio: Get Ready for the 10 Plagues: "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet "
12/28/2010 9:11:00 PM - A7 Radio's "Temple Talk" with Temple Talk



Some people couldn't see or feel G-d's presence even if He came out and hit them over the head. Pharaoh, the absolute monarch of Egypt, is one of these people. In fact, it will take ten heavy hits to knock some recognition into Pharaoh's head and his heart. Moses has been chosen to be the messenger, although he feels highly under-qualified. G-d, however, is determined that Moses will be the man who delivers Israel.

Rabbi Richman and Yitzchak Reuven express their sadness at the passing of Vendyl Jones, a passionate and compassionate spiritual giant of our generation. May his memory be for a blessing.

This week from the TEMPLE INSTITUTE:
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.
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You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline edu

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2010, 03:41:05 AM »
What I meant when I mentioned Rashi's explanation for the power granted the magicians, I was refering to the following:
רש"י שמות פרק ז

(ג) ואני אקשה - מאחר שהרשיע והתריס כנגדי, וגלוי לפני שאין נחת רוח באומות עובדי עבודה זרה לתת לב שלם לשוב, טוב לי שיתקשה לבו למען הרבות בו אותותי ותכירו אתם את גבורותי. וכן מדתו של הקב"ה מביא פורענות על האומות עובדי עבודה זרה כדי שישמעו ישראל וייראו, שנאמר (צפניה ג ו) הכרתי גוים נשמו פנותם וגו', (שם ז) אמרתי אך תיראי אותי תקחי מוסר, ואף על פי כן בחמש מכות הראשונות לא נאמר ויחזק ה' את לב פרעה, אלא ויחזק לב פרעה:

But you could argue the 2 issues (hardening Pharoah's heart and the power of the magicians) aren't necessarily connected.
If someone else doesn't do it first, at a later time I will try to translate, bli neder, for those who don't have a good understanding of hebrew the above passage.

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2010, 03:58:57 AM »
Well, in a line of thought consistent with what I have been saying the Torah says clearly that he will lay waste to Egypt as a result of Hashem hardening Pharaohs heart...

I can not translate that Rashi but looking at the lines in the Torah which he is discussing it is clear to me that Hashem says that Egypt will eventually relent after being punished by the plagues.


3. But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and I will increase My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt.
4. But Pharaoh will not hearken to you, and I will lay My hand upon the Egyptians, and I will take My legions, My people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt with great judgments.
5. And the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord when I stretch forth My hand over Egypt, and I will take the children of Israel out of their midst."


But Rashi is commenting on the the line "But I will harden" (ואני אקשה) and Chabads Rashi translation seems broken at the moment...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2010, 04:06:03 AM »
edu,

I would love to hear your insight into this Rashi...

Here is the translation I have found on this Rashi...

http://www.tachash.org/texis/vtx/chverse/+lwwBmeYAz1ecPGxwwxFqt0Ldm15qFqAgrwpBnGaXsmFqMeR8qxG5neWykDXveuxww/search2.html#hit1

Verse 3: I will harden.87

    Since he acted wickedly and in opposition towards Me, and it is revealed to Me that the nations take no pleasure in wholeheartedly repenting, it is better for Me that his heart be hardened so that My signs be increased against him and you will thereby recognize My power. This is the way of G-d: He brings punishment upon the wicked nations so that Israel may hear about it and fear [Him], as it is said:88 "I have cut off nations making their corners desolate . . . I said: If only you would fear Me then you (Israel) will accept admonition." Nevertheless, concerning the first five plagues it does not say: "G-d strengthened Pharaoh's heart" but, "Pharaoh's heart was strengthened."89

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline edu

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2010, 01:46:29 AM »
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Since he acted wickedly and in opposition towards Me, and it is revealed to Me that the nations take no pleasure in wholeheartedly repenting, it is better for Me that his heart be hardened so that My signs be increased against him and you will thereby recognize My power. This is the way of G-d: He brings punishment upon the wicked nations so that Israel may hear about it and fear [Him], as it is said:88 "I have cut off nations making their corners desolate . . . I said: If only you would fear Me then you (Israel) will accept admonition." Nevertheless, concerning the first five plagues it does not say: "G-d strengthened Pharaoh's heart" but, "Pharaoh's heart was strengthened."
Mizrachi says that had G-d not hardened Pharoah's heart, he would of cooperated with the request to send away Israel, in order to avoid suffering, but not because of an ideological belief that one must observe the will of G-d. Therefore, in that situation, it was better that he refused, so that would then be an excuse to perform wonderous plagues and signs against Pharoah, which would strengthen the fear of G-d by the true servants of G-d.
Siftei Chachamim, says that if Pharoah would have done a partial repentance and then received punishment for his sins, people would innacurately, blame the partial repentance as the source of the punishment. In this situation, it would be better for the world to clearly recognize that Pharoah was evil and an enemy of
G-d, so that his later downfall would be attributed to his rebellion against G-d.

Offline muman613

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2010, 02:03:03 AM »
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Since he acted wickedly and in opposition towards Me, and it is revealed to Me that the nations take no pleasure in wholeheartedly repenting, it is better for Me that his heart be hardened so that My signs be increased against him and you will thereby recognize My power. This is the way of G-d: He brings punishment upon the wicked nations so that Israel may hear about it and fear [Him], as it is said:88 "I have cut off nations making their corners desolate . . . I said: If only you would fear Me then you (Israel) will accept admonition." Nevertheless, concerning the first five plagues it does not say: "G-d strengthened Pharaoh's heart" but, "Pharaoh's heart was strengthened."
Mizrachi says that had G-d not hardened Pharoah's heart, he would of cooperated with the request to send away Israel, in order to avoid suffering, but not because of an ideological belief that one must observe the will of G-d. Therefore, in that situation, it was better that he refused, so that would then be an excuse to perform wonderous plagues and signs against Pharoah, which would strengthen the fear of G-d by the true servants of G-d.
Siftei Chachamim, says that if Pharoah would have done a partial repentance and then received punishment for his sins, people would innacurately, blame the partial repentance as the source of the punishment. In this situation, it would be better for the world to clearly recognize that Pharoah was evil and an enemy of
G-d, so that his later downfall would be attributed to his rebellion against G-d.


I believe that this is the reason there is the belief that everyone has free-will except politicians, rulers, presidents, and kings...

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http://www.aish.com/tp/i/moha/48957436.html
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We now realize that Moshe and Pharoh are more worthy as adversaries than we ever would have thought. Both have been selected, even preordained, for their respective missions. To a certain extent, neither had a choice.

Rabbi Dovid Shlomo Eibshitz (1755-1814) in his Arvei Nachal,9 explains that kings enjoy advantages as well as disadvantages as compared to commoners. Clearly, kings have numerous advantages in terms of wealth and power. This not withstanding, they are not always empowered by G-d to make their own decisions. Their choices impact too many people. While the concept of Free Will is considered by most authorities to be a cornerstone of Judaism, it is not an absolute concept. There are processes that G-d desires to happen, and others He wishes to block. Kings, who can impact so many lives,10 often have their Free Will suspended.11 This is the meaning of the verse in the Book of Mishlei: "The Heart of a king is in the hand of G-d." 12
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9. Arvei Nahal, Vayechi.

10. See Malbim on Mishlei 25:3.

11. See Meshech Chachma Sh'mot 6.

12. Mishlei 21:1.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 02:21:22 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Why did G-d Grant the Magicians of Pharoah a small amount of power?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2010, 10:53:15 AM »
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Since he acted wickedly and in opposition towards Me, and it is revealed to Me that the nations take no pleasure in wholeheartedly repenting, it is better for Me that his heart be hardened so that My signs be increased against him and you will thereby recognize My power. This is the way of G-d: He brings punishment upon the wicked nations so that Israel may hear about it and fear [Him], as it is said:88 "I have cut off nations making their corners desolate . . . I said: If only you would fear Me then you (Israel) will accept admonition." Nevertheless, concerning the first five plagues it does not say: "G-d strengthened Pharaoh's heart" but, "Pharaoh's heart was strengthened."
Mizrachi says that had G-d not hardened Pharoah's heart, he would of cooperated with the request to send away Israel, in order to avoid suffering, but not because of an ideological belief that one must observe the will of G-d. Therefore, in that situation, it was better that he refused, so that would then be an excuse to perform wonderous plagues and signs against Pharoah, which would strengthen the fear of G-d by the true servants of G-d.
Siftei Chachamim, says that if Pharoah would have done a partial repentance and then received punishment for his sins, people would innacurately, blame the partial repentance as the source of the punishment. In this situation, it would be better for the world to clearly recognize that Pharoah was evil and an enemy of
G-d, so that his later downfall would be attributed to his rebellion against G-d.


Fascinating ideas.