Do you consider the Ethiopian as Jews?

[JimmiySullivan77]

Both the Talmud,Bereshit Rabba and the Zohar explicitly stated that all negroes are accursed as they are the sons of Ham.

[edu]

Let's be accurate. To the best of my knowledge the curse was upon Canaan, who was one of the sons of "Ham", not on all of the sons of "Ham". Unless you can show me a source that states otherwise.
Even if one is a Canaanite, under certain circumstances, they have the option to convert [for example, before the war starts for the conquest of the land of Israel].
Rahab [see the book of Yehoshua/Joshua chapter 2] was from the descendants of Canaan, but converted to Judaism and married the prophet Yehoshua [tractate Megilla 14b].
A separate question is, did the ethiopian "Jews" make their way into the Jewish nation by a valid conversion.
This is a point of debate among Rabbis of today, some say yes, some say no and others say we have a doubt.

[JimmyGentile]

Its my understanding that Moses married an Ethiopian if my memory serves me correctly.

[Zelhar]

Ultimately we should leave this for the poskim to determine. But if it's up to me than I say they are. The Falashmura are of course excluded.

[muman613]

Its my understanding that Moses married an Ethiopian if my memory serves me correctly.

This is true. Torah says that Moshes wife was a Cushite..

[muman613]

Here is a good discussion of the Curse of Ham:

http://noahidenations.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=323

It is clear that the curse was on Canaan and not all of Hams descendants...

[muman613]

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8173

Genesis 9:24-27

24. And Noah awoke from his wine, and he knew what his small son had done to him.
25. And he said, "Cursed be Canaan; he shall be a slave among slaves to his brethren."
26. And he said, "Blessed be the Lord, the G-d of Shem, and may Canaan be a slave to them.
27. May G-d expand Japheth, and may He dwell in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be a slave to them."

[muman613]

And another thought:


http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-date/2007/05/?p=2416

Does it say somewhere in the Torah that Moses’ wife was black?

The answer to your question is found in Bamidbar (Numbers) 12:1, which tells us of the “Cushite” woman that Moses married. Cush is the area we call Ethiopia today, so someone from Cush would be black. Despite the fact that the Torah speaks of this Cushite wife, the fact that this wife is mentioned nowhere else in the Bible led many commentators, with Rashi at their head, to conclude that this “Cushite” wife is none other than Moses’ wife Tzippora, who is called a Cushite euphemistically for different reasons. Rashi’s take on it is that she was called a Cushite to make the point that the contrast of her incredible beauty to others was as obvious as the darkness of a Cushite. Other commentators, however, basing themselves on a work called “Moses’ chronicles” cited by a Midrash, explain that the Torah is referring to a woman Moses married (presumably after converting her to Monotheism) when he spent forty years in Cush after escaping Egypt the first time, before he ended up in Median with Tzipporah.

Thanks,
Raffy Davidovich

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Are you trying to impersonate jimmy sullivan?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

That's the lifeless untermensch inferior Nazi species Ben Mizrahi don't mind that worthless cuckold

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

That's the lifeless untermensch inferior Nazi species Ben Mizrahi don't mind that worthless cuckold

Good call.  I agree.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

And another thought:


http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-date/2007/05/?p=2416

Does it say somewhere in the Torah that Moses’ wife was black?

The answer to your question is found in Bamidbar (Numbers) 12:1, which tells us of the “Cushite” woman that Moses married. Cush is the area we call Ethiopia today, so someone from Cush would be black. Despite the fact that the Torah speaks of this Cushite wife, the fact that this wife is mentioned nowhere else in the Bible led many commentators, with Rashi at their head, to conclude that this “Cushite” wife is none other than Moses’ wife Tzippora, who is called a Cushite euphemistically for different reasons. Rashi’s take on it is that she was called a Cushite to make the point that the contrast of her incredible beauty to others was as obvious as the darkness of a Cushite. Other commentators, however, basing themselves on a work called “Moses’ chronicles” cited by a Midrash, explain that the Torah is referring to a woman Moses married (presumably after converting her to Monotheism) when he spent forty years in Cush after escaping Egypt the first time, before he ended up in Median with Tzipporah.

Thanks,
Raffy Davidovich

There is absolutely no merit to the ridiculous translation of "Isha Kushit" as "Ethiopian Woman". The only wife Torah records Moses ever had was Tzipora, a Medianite. Jewish Sages commented that Kushit was simply a nickname. And even so, Kush always referred to lower Egypt, then almost totally caucasian - most certainly not Ethiopia

[muman613]

There is absolutely no merit to the ridiculous translation of "Isha Kushit" as "Ethiopian Woman". The only wife Torah records Moses ever had was Tzipora, a Medianite. Jewish Sages commented that Kushit was simply a nickname. And even so, Kush always referred to lower Egypt, then almost totally caucasian - most certainly not Ethiopia

Then you have a lot of explaining to do concerning Midrashes which discuss the exploits of Moses in Ethiopia... It is also written that Moses was the king of Ethiopia when he was on the run from Egypt {almost 40 years}...

I have posted them here before but I will bring them again:

http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=628
Did Moses have an Ethiopian wife? Did he have children by her?

Moses' Ethiopian wife is mentioned in Num.12:1, but the Midrashim all say that "Kushis" in that verse means "beautiful" and that the wife was Jethro's daughter Zipporah. However, Targum Yonasan takes the Ethiopian wife literally, and the story of Moses' marriage in Ethiopia is also told by Josephus (Antiquities II:10-11) and by the Sefer ha-Yashar (Berlin 1923, p.254). According to the Sefer ha-Yashar, Moses had no relations with that wife because of Abraham's prohibition against marrying Hamitic women. Josephus says that the marriage was consummated, but says nothing about children. Thus Moses' only children were his two sons by Zipporah (Ex. 18:9 3-4).

http://www.torahtots.com/jewishpress/20060803midrash.htm
Moshe Rabeinu

The siege lasted for many years when suddenly there appeared a stranger in a camp.

“Who are you?” demanded Nikanos as the man was taken before him.

“My name is Moshe,” replied the stranger. “I am a fugitive from Egypt, and I seek refuge with you, mighty Nikanos.”

Ethiopia had always been a bitter enemy of Egypt, and Nikanos was always ready to welcome its refugees. In this case he was especially taken with the handsome man whose stature was as that of a palm tree and whose face shone with a strange light. Above all, he showed himself to be a man of great wisdom.

Many nights he would sit up with the stranger and listen to things that he had never heard of before. He heard him tell of a G-d who could not be seen but Who had Created all from nothing. He sat in amazement listening to the story of a Hebrew by the name of Abraham, who had left his motherland and the land of his fathers to go to a strange country and there had established an inn where he gave men physical and spiritual nourishment.

He heard new ideas – of love and brotherhood of all men; of the terrible sin of human sacrifice. All this he heard, and he grew to respect this young man and listened to his advice on all things. But Nikanos was an elderly man and as the siege went into its ninth year, he grew ill and died suddenly.

The army of Nikanos was now in a quandary. Calling a meeting of the generals, they posed the question:

“What are we to do now? We cannot attack the city directly, and this interminable siege can last for another hundred years.”

“This is not necessarily so,” said one of the generals. “Perhaps it was the fact that Nikanos was already an old man and weak that has prevented us from conquering the city.

“Let us choose for ourselves a new king, one who is strong and wise, and perhaps he will succeed where Nikanos failed.”

The New King

“A splendid idea,” cried the soldiers. “There is only one man who is so powerful and so wise to do this. Let us appoint the Hebrew, Moshe, to be our new king.”

And so, they threw off their cloaks in a token of submission and built a great throne. To the noise of the ram’s horn, the soldiers carried Moshe to the throne as the multitude cried out:

“Long live the King – Moshe!”

And Moshe, now 27 years old, turned to the people and said:

“Listen, my subjects. This long siege will soon be at an end. With the aid of G-d, I have a plan which will succeed in capturing the city.”

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1017949/jewish/Where-Was-Moses.htm
Where Was Moses?
By Chaya Sarah Silberberg

Question:

Scripture tells us that Moses left Egypt a young man, and yet he comes back an octogenarian. Where was he for all those years?

Answer:

The Midrash fills in the gap with the following fascinating account:

Around the time that Moses left Egypt, a great war broke out between Kush (Ethiopia) and some of its vassal states, who rebelled and were fighting for independence. Kinkos, king of Kush, prepared for war, and left Balaam in charge of the government while he was on his campaign. He successfully defeated the rebellious colonies.
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The trumpets were sounded, the troops crossed the trench, and they took the city. Eleven hundred of Balaam's men were captured and executed. Balaam himself escaped with his family and went to Egypt, where he eventually became one of Pharaoh's chief advisors. Most of the men of Kush, however, remained in their houses and were not harmed.

Moses was crowned king of Kush, and was also given the young widow of King Kinkos as a wife. However, since she was a descendant of Canaan, with whom marriage was prohibited to Avraham's descendants, he was never intimate with her.

Moses remained there as king for forty full years, and during this period, the nation prospered greatly. But the queen was unhappy. She approached the Supreme Council of Kush and said, "What have you done to me? I am the royal queen, but the king never even touches me. Moreover, he does not believe in our gods. A king should have the same religion as his subjects. Kinkos' son is now mature, and he is experienced in running the government. It is time for him to be appointed king."

The council heard her plea and agreed with her argument. The next day they voted to crown Kinkos' son as king. Swearing that they would do him no harm, the council approached Moses and explained the situation. They gave him many gifts and sent him off with great honor, befitting a former king. Moses thus left Kush and settled in Midyan.

Source:

Yalkut Me'am Loez on Shemot 2:15; With more details: Yalkut Shimoni on Shemot, Remez 168

[muman613]

One thing which is confusing is that while it is said that Moshe had a Kushite wife, the articles I posted also mention that there was a curse on the descendants of Caanan... I guess there are multiple interpretations of the Midrashes... As Ron stated there is another Makloket on this topic...

[muman613]

One place in Torah where we see the effect of the Curse on Ham, through his son Caanan, is in the story of Abraham and his servant Eliezer.

Eliezer was a known descendant of Caanan. He was a loyal and faithful servant of Abraham, and some midrashes say that Eliezer even looked like Abraham. Abraham taught Eliezer the Torah {as much as the patriarchs knew the 'Torah' at the time}.

Eliezer had a daughter whom he fancied to marry Abrahams son Yitzak... When Eliezer asked Abraham about it, it was clear that this would not happen. Abraham did not pull any punches and explained why Yitzak could not marry a daughter of a Caananite.

It is Parasha Chai Sara where this takes place:

Avraham and Eliezer
by Rabbi Yosef Levinson

It was time for Avraham Avinu to find a wife for his son Yitzchak. Yitzchak's spouse would not only be his helpmate, but she would also be the 'eim', mother, of the entire Jewish nation. To be deemed worthy, she would have to exhibit the attributes of the Avos; to perform chessed, to publicise Hashem's name throughout society and be a paragon of humility. Surely the person assigned the task of searching for the future eim of the Jewish people would also have to be someone that is both trustworthy and that appreciates these fine qualities. Our destiny would totally be in his hands! Who did Avraham designate as his agent? - his loyal servant Eliezer. An examination of the praise that Chazal shower on Eliezer, reveals he was indeed a most suitable choice for this mission.

The Torah refers to Eliezer as 'the elder of his (Avraham's) household' (24:2). The Gemara explains that Eliezer was an elder who learnt Torah in the Yeshiva. The verse continues: "He controlled all that was his." This teaches us that Eliezer had dominion over the Torah of Avraham (Yoma 28b). Eliezer had complete mastery of Avraham's teachings and was authorised to disseminate his lessons to others. The Midrash adds that Eliezer had control over all that was his - himself, he had complete self-control and mastery over his yetzer hara. We can also learn humility from Eliezer. Although he expounded on Avraham's teachings to the public, managed Avraham's estate and was Avraham's representative to the world, he introduced himself to Besuel and Lavan as 'Eved Avraham anochi', I am Avraham's slave. He considered himself to be a mere servant, and did not take credit for his achievements. (See Bava Kamma 92B, Mishnas R' Aharon, Vol 1, p139.) This is one of the many lessons we learn from this tzaddik. As the Sages taught 'Yafeh sichasan shel avdei avos yoseir mitorasan shel banim'. Hashem is more pleased with the conversation of servants of the Avos than the Torah of their children (Bereishis Rabba 60:8). The Torah details Eliezer's journey to find Yitzchak's wife and repeats it as Eliezer relates it to Rivka's family. Yet many intricate halachos are derived from a single word or letter.

We cannot fully grasp Eliezer's greatness. If this loyal servant had a daughter, surely she would have been a worthy choice of wife for Yitzchak. Eliezer's sterling example would have taught her proper values and she also would have been privileged to witness Avraham and Sarah's kindness and be inspired by them. Chazal reveal that indeed Eliezer had a daughter. So why was it necessary for Eliezer to travel in search of a spouse for Yitzchak when his daughter was right there? Eliezer was also troubled by this. Avraham explained to him that "my son is baruch, blessed, and you are aror, cursed, and one who is aror cannot cleave to one who is baruch." Eliezer was a descendent of Cana'an the son of Cham who was cursed by Noach whereas Avraham was descended from Shem, who received Noach's blessings. This is difficult to understand. A curse from a tzaddik should not be taken lightly, still is it reason enough to pass over Eliezer's daughter? Why did Avraham ignore all of Eliezer's noble attributes and fine character because of a curse that was pronounced over four hundred years earlier. (Noach cursed Cham after the mabul, flood, which occurred 1656 years after creation and Avraham sent Eliezer to look for a wife for Yitzchak in the year 2088 - Yitzchak was born in 2048 and was forty when he married Rivka.)

The Sefas Emes writes that Noach did not actually curse his son, rather Cham did a despicable act which demonstrated that he was cursed. Noach declared that Cham's son Cana'an and his descendants should be slaves to Shem. Only by benefiting Shem's progeny who were blessed, could Cham's descendants reach their potential. On their own they would only be a destructive force.

The halacha is that an eved cana'ani has no lineage (Yevamos 62a). This means that any child he fathers is not legally considered his. This is appropriate given the gravity of the sin that Cham committed. Cham humiliated his father, not even showing the decency that any human deserves, let alone one's father. By this act, he demonstrated that he had no desire to perpetuate the deeds of his father and that he felt no link between the generations. In this way he severed any connection with his progeny. This is why Eliezer could not marry into Avraham's family. Although Eliezer's accomplishments were truly remarkable, they stayed with him; he could not pass them on to his daughter. Even though he surely provided her with an excellent education in word as well as in deed and she learnt from Avraham and Sarah, again these qualities would only remain part of her. She might be a model to follow, however her fine qualities could not become ingrained in her genes and passed on.

This is the exact opposite of what the Avos were. As we explained last week, Avraham Avinu's avoda, task, was to plod a path for his offspring. Hashem tested him ten times so that he would grow and internalise these traits. (The hebrew word for Avraham's tests is nisayon - from the word neis which means to lift up, as opposed to a test of someone's knowledge, bechina, meaning to discern.) They would forever be part of the Jewish people. This is why Hashem loved Avraham for his actions ensured that his children would follow in his ways. To be considered a spouse for Yitzchak, one not only had to have the finest character but had to be blessed as well. There could be nothing that hindered the future generations.

(The Midrash (Bereishis Rabba 60:7) relates that through Eliezer's dedication and loyalty to Avraham, he became baruch, however by then it was too late for Rivka was already betrothed to Yitzchak. Furthermore, it was only Eliezer who became baruch and not his daughter. His future children might indeed be "his" but not his daughter who was born earlier.)

We must realise that we are privileged to be Avraham's children. Let us live up to the potential they implanted within us and make the Avos proud.

[muman613]

Here is the story of how Eliezer 'looked like' Abraham:

http://www.hevratpinto.org/pahad_eng/bereshit/e_chayei_sarah_07.html
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Above all, we need to understand why Abraham made Eliezer swear that he would find a wife for his son from among his own family. Eliezer taught the Torah of his master to others (Yoma 28b), hence it is obvious that he would carry out Abraham’s instructions. How could it be, then, that Abraham had so little faith in Eliezer that he made him take an oath?

Let us try to explain this as best we can. When Eliezer encountered Rebecca by the well and gave her jewels, she returned home and told her mother what had happened. Upon hearing this, Laban quickly realized that Eliezer was carrying a great deal of wealth, as our Sages have mentioned. At that point, however, Laban suddenly perceived that Eliezer’s face resembled Abraham’s. This means that Eliezer had elevated himself so greatly that he eventually looked like him.

Since Abraham brought people to G-d (Bereshith Rabba 39:14), Eliezer obvious did the same, for he drank from the Torah of his master for the sake of others. Thus Eliezer succeeded in bringing Laban a bit closer to Hashem, and therefore Laban evoked His Name by saying, “Come, O blessed of the L-RD.” Consequently, when Eliezer perceived his own spiritual stature, his personal interests began to assail him. He had a daughter that he wanted Isaac to marry, since he had served Abraham faithfully and did not see why he should remain cursed forever.
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