Chaim Ben Pesach responds to the situation in Japan.

[Yaakov Mendel]

Yaakov Mendel,    first it's important for me to express that I greatly appreciate your efforts with JTF.


In an organization,     there are going to be differences of opinions at times,   as in this case.      

While I agree with the vast majority of JTF's platform,     there are some issues that I either somewhat disagree or I'm not sure of the answer.       There's no one person who I agree with 100 % across the board.        

Thank you, Ebb. I completely agree with what you say here. By the way, without those individual differences, JTF wouldn't be such a great place to debate. We are the opposite of a Bolshevik organization. What matters most is that we all basically agree on all the main issues regarding Islam, the survival of Israel, of the Jewish people and of Western civilization. That's what gives us a strong unity beyond our differences.

[Christian Zionist]

I agree with AsheDina and cjd.


Zechariah 12:2

"Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah.

Zechariah 12:3

"It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.


New Zealand also allowed Saudi royal family to purchase lands in New Zealand

[AsheDina]

I agree with AsheDina and cjd.


Zechariah 12:2

"Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah.

Zechariah 12:3

"It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.


New Zealand also allowed Saudi royal family to purchase lands in New Zealand

I am FOR the Japanese PEOPLE.  But CZ is 100% right with the scriptures.
What happened in WW2, imo is OVER. They became our friends and copied everything we did.
 The Japanese people are suffering b/c of BAD GOVERNMENT. We need to consider ourselves HERE in America, b/c G-d is going to judge America for OUR GOVERNMENT.

[AsheDina]

I am FOR the Japanese PEOPLE.  But CZ is 100% right with the scriptures.
What happened in WW2, imo is OVER. They became our friends and copied everything we did.
 The Japanese people are suffering b/c of BAD GOVERNMENT. We need to consider ourselves HERE in America, b/c G-d is going to judge America for OUR GOVERNMENT.

BTW - Do we hate England because of the Revolutionary War? 
The PEOPLE of Japan, I totally feel for and nobody is going to change this. As well as NOBODY is going to change how I feel that God will JUDGE the nations SEVERELY for hurting HIS land. Period. I like Yakov, and he has his way of thinking.

 I have mine, based on 3000 yr old scripture and evidence.

[Masha]

Since it was my comment that provoked Chaim's rage, I should probably say something. I made this comment in all innocence. This is how I felt, and I expressed my feelings. Can feelings be wrong? Some people I feel sorry for, other people I don't feel sorry for. The way I feel about this is that the war was a long time ago. There are many many nations at this very moment that are much worse than the Japanese today. By the way, I didn't know that Japan was against Israel. That's very bad. But are they more rabidly anti-Israel than many other countries? I would guess not.

Going back to the war. Italy and Romania were also Hitler's allies. Maybe if they hadn't been Hitler's allies, Holocaust wouldn't have happened (using the same logic). Yet nobody hates Italians and wishes evil on them. I myself love Italians, and I am not a Romanian hater either. If a disaster of a comparable size hit Italy, I would bet that everyone on the forum would feel very sorry for Italy, and nobody would say that This is G-d punishing them for WWII. Talking about atrocities during the war. Ukrainians locked Jews in Synagogues and put them on fire, burning the Jews alive. They also made raids of Polish villages and killed pregnant women, cutting their stomachs and throwing out fetuses. They killed babies by smashing their heads against the wall. The Poles and the Balts did exactly the same thing to the Jews. Where is their punishment? Where are their natural disasters? (By the way, Chernobyl doesn't count, since it wasn't a large enough disaster, and it didn't happen to West Ukrainians, who were the main culprits). Anyone who thinks that the Japanese were more savage and cruel during the war than people in Eastern Europe is very naive. Finally, there is a talk about an impending large-scale earthquake in California. I know there are swarms of crazy liberals in San Francisco, but are they crazier or more numerous than their counterparts in New York? How is it fair to kill liberals on the West Coast and leave those on the East Coast alive? My feeling is that we shouldn't jump to conclusions as to why something happened. The logic might be too-large-scaled for descrying a pattern. 

And one more thing. Based on my understanding of Judaism, it is not morally wrong to have moments of doubt about the existence of G-d. It is normal, and it happens to many good people. Judaism stresses deeds, not thoughts. 

[AsheDina]

@Masha:

  Japanese people are civilized. They are good people.
It is their GOVERNMENT, just like ours that is the Israel hater.
Just like USA; 68% America supports Israel, but I guarantee that American govt will give Israel a terrible time, sadly.

  But, really, you must know that people always doubt Gds existense. Its a sign of being mortal. Anyway, thats all for me. I believe that G-d is totally angry with nations that are hurting Israel who is outnumbered in hostile land.  
Look at gush Katif for ie.
My opinion:
People are STUPID in thinking that G-d is not involved in this.

[Dr. Dan]

Masha also read my comment above..

I don't fault you for your point of you just like I don't fault Yaacov's point of view.

All I can say is that natural disasters are a test or punishment from Gd, but really no one here including Chaim is a prophet to know what Gd really thinks and why He does these things to certain nations at certain times.

Are we allowed to speculate?  I think so...but I stress, they are only speculations.  Mine is that Gd chose a less openly evil government nation to allow us to realize that this test or punishment on Japan can happen to any of us and that it is our free will which has to choose righteous causes and abandon evil causes that we currently follow.

As far as I'm concerned, I tremble for Hashem to be merciful and to save us and give us another opportunity to change for the better.  Or even if He feels He needs to punish the evil our evil government, to spare good and innocent peoples' lives in the process unlike what we have seen in Japan and possibly other nations.

We need to pray each day and be humble and thank Gd for all the things we have that the Japanese lost from this disaster.  This disaster on Japan is one signal to us not to bicker over petty things (and I'm pretty sure most of us only really bicker about important things anyway).

[Masha]

Mine is that Gd chose a less openly evil government nation to allow us to realize that this test or punishment on Japan can happen to any of us and that it is our free will which has to choose righteous causes and abandon evil causes that we currently follow.

Maybe.

[edu]

"Pour out your wrath upon the nation that do not know you and upon the kingdoms that do not call upon your name. For they have devoured Yaacov{Jacob} and laid waste his dwelling place"

Tehillim/Psalms chapter 79 which Jews also recite at the Passover Seder.
Have the Japanese participated in the crimes mentioned in the quotation above? Yes!
Are there worse nations than Japan? Yes!
Why has Japan been singled out for this tragedy, I prefer not to speculate.
But to have complaints about G-d, for allowing such disasters to happen, I certainly won't do, for this goes against what we officially ask from G-d on the night of the Seder.

Is it possible that there were also good people among the victims? Yes. If the nation is judged as guilty, the innocent among them, might not always have enough merit to be protected from punishment declared upon the community. Especially this is true if they did not protest sufficiently against their society.