Question on alliyah

[The proud Jew]

My mom who is an israeli told me to not go to israel because she says that " everybody is trying to scam everyone in business deals and you really cant trust the government or the police". We all know this about the boulshavic institutions, but is this true that the majority of jews in israel are trying to scam eachother?

[Dr. Dan]

Kind of...it depends where you go.  If you are an Olim and obviously not from Israel, it is definitely possible they will try to mess around with you.  When I was in Israel last time (specifically, tel-aviv), my wife was like, "Keep your mouth shut and let me do the talking."

I would feel that settlements where you are around heroic settlers you wouldn't have that problem.  Places like Tel-Aviv, they will screw around and try to scam you.  You have to be tough back to them. Don't be so polite and nice.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

That's Jews, always stabbing each other in the back. Somehow I doubt these Tel Aviv freaks of nature would try to screw over an Arab in business.

[Yaakov Mendel]

That's Jews, always stabbing each other in the back.

Huh ?

[Dr. Dan]

That's Jews, always stabbing each other in the back. Somehow I doubt these Tel Aviv freaks of nature would try to screw over an Arab in business.

Not so sure of that either...It's a dog eat dog world in many areas in Tel-Aviv.  Politeness is with the minority of them.

My experience has been interesting actually.  When in a hotel amongst Israelis, very dog eat dog and lack of response to accommodation.  Oddly enough, in hotels that employ Arabs, relatively courteous and usually accommodating.  Did that mean I trusted them? No.  It just meant that when it came down to do one's job, the Arabs were more scared of losing their's while the Israeli's didn't give a crap.  I'm comparing on Tel-Aviv hotel which was Israeli run and one Jerusalem (upscale) hotel that was mixed with Arabs and Israelis.

If I could have it my way, I would want Israelis to generally be more polite to each other.  Then there would be fewer car accidents.

[The proud Jew]

Knowing that I dont want to make alliyah. If thats our jewish society, why should we deserve the moshiach? Why is it that the israeli mentality does not have the attitude of love your fellow jew? I wounder even if we had a kahanist government that mentality in israeli society will still stay the same.

[The proud Jew]

That's Jews, always stabbing each other in the back. Somehow I doubt these Tel Aviv freaks of nature would try to screw over an Arab in business.

Saying stuff like " jews allways stabbing eachother in the back" could fuel anti semetic blood libels.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Saying stuff like " jews allways stabbing eachother in the back" could fuel anti semetic blood libels.

What's the present state of Israel if not exactly what I said? Are Jews attacking Arabs or attacking each other?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Not so sure of that either...It's a dog eat dog world in many areas in Tel-Aviv.  Politeness is with the minority of them.

My experience has been interesting actually.  When in a hotel amongst Israelis, very dog eat dog and lack of response to accommodation.  Oddly enough, in hotels that employ Arabs, relatively courteous and usually accommodating.  Did that mean I trusted them? No.  It just meant that when it came down to do one's job, the Arabs were more scared of losing their's while the Israeli's didn't give a crap.  I'm comparing on Tel-Aviv hotel which was Israeli run and one Jerusalem (upscale) hotel that was mixed with Arabs and Israelis.

Possible I suppose. I guess Israelis have bought into the entitlement mindset just like American and Western whites. I am betting that the kinds of Jews who worked at this Tel Aviv hotel would be huge Obama worshippers in America.

If I could have it my way, I would want Israelis to generally be more polite to each other.  Then there would be fewer car accidents.

I thought that the vast majority of car accidents in Israel were caused by Arabs.

[muman613]

Saying stuff like " jews allways stabbing eachother in the back" could fuel anti semetic blood libels.

I agree...

We should not be bickering about evil Jews here... Sure there are some prickly Israelis but during the Three Weeks during which Religious Jews recall the destruction of the Temples we {righteous Jews} should refrain from attacking a fellow Jew. The Jewish sages relate the one of the prime reasons for the second Temples destruction was Sinat Chinam {Baseless Hatred}. Now I know the difference between 'Baseless' hatred and 'Based' hatred but the line is very thin indeed. It is best to refrain from any hatred of Jews which can be construed as baseless hatred.

I have a progressive Israeli friend at work and there are several other Israelis working at my company. Most of these are from the Tel-Aviv area and although we don't agree 100% on the importance of religion we do get along on just about everything else.

[The proud Jew]

I agree...

We should not be bickering about evil Jews here... Sure there are some prickly Israelis but during the Three Weeks during which Religious Jews recall the destruction of the Temples we {righteous Jews} should refrain from attacking a fellow Jew. The Jewish sages relate the one of the prime reasons for the second Temples destruction was Sinat Chinam {Baseless Hatred}. Now I know the difference between 'Baseless' hatred and 'Based' hatred but the line is very thin indeed. It is best to refrain from any hatred of Jews which can be construed as baseless hatred.

I have a progressive Israeli friend at work and there are several other Israelis working at my company. Most of these are from the Tel-Aviv area and although we don't agree 100% on the importance of religion we do get along on just about everything else.

Are those israelis proud to be jewish? Do those israelis have love for the land?

[muman613]

Are those israelis proud to be jewish? Do those israelis have love for the land?

The ones I work with? I really have to ask myself this question. I don't think any of them observe Shabbat or keep Kosher, if that is what you are asking. I am a little disappointed with that myself..

My company is holding their Annual Picknick next month... I used to love going to them when they were held during work hours. But last year, and this year, they schedule the picnic on Shabbat, and I am disappointed because I cannot go on Shabbat. I have asked HR to at least once in a while schedule it for Sunday, but I have had NO RESPONSE at this time.. But I think it is Hashem giving me the message that even if I went to the picnic I would not be able to eat because I am sure it will not be Kosher.. But I also think of all the Jewish Israelis who came to America and now are being invited to eat non-kosher after driving to a picnic on Shabbat... Yuck!

[The proud Jew]

Muman did any of those israelis ask you any questions about true torah judiasm? I would immagine because most of these "rabbis" distort mainly everything.

[muman613]

The ones I work with? I really have to ask myself this question. I don't think any of them observe Shabbat or keep Kosher, if that is what you are asking. I am a little disappointed with that myself..

I am asking if they feel any spiritual connection to judiasm?

My closest Israeli friend has a basic understanding of Judaism. But he doesn't observe... But sometimes I feel that his Jewish neshama is interested in learning more... We talk about Jewish concepts from time to time..


Rabbi Richmans Dvar Torah for this week addresses this issue:

"A tongue can accuse or carry bad news." Hank Williams sure said a mouthful with those lines. In truth, it was lashon hara -- an evil tongue -- which put Israel in exile and which kept Israel in the wilderness forty years. But on the flip side, our words, our vows, our oaths and our pledges, if uttered and honored with the proper respect and trust in HaShem, can lead us back to the promised land of Israel.

[The proud Jew]

What I find intresting is that after some time most of these israeli's feel some sort of emptyness inside them and then become a jew with a purpose. With my moms side of the family that lives in israel, the younger generation are more intrested in true judiasm than there parents are.

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

You know I find it odd that the only people that are commenting here are living in Hutz L"artz

[Yaakov Mendel]

Knowing that I dont want to make alliyah. If thats our jewish society, why should we deserve the moshiach? Why is it that the israeli mentality does not have the attitude of love your fellow jew? I wounder even if we had a kahanist government that mentality in israeli society will still stay the same.

Come on, don't put so much blind faith in such negative stereotypes about the Israelis...
Have American Jews always had that attitude of love your fellow Jews, toward European Jewry for example ? Well, thank you for your deafening silence during WWII.
Have American Jews that attitude of love your fellow Jews now toward Israeli Jews ? Well, thank you for having contributed to bringing Obama to power.

[muman613]

You know I find it odd that the only people that are commenting here are living in Hutz L"artz

I think it is a valid question about whether the perception of Israelis as being self-absorbed and not as loving of other Jews as they should be is true... I know that no matter what it will not dissuade me from wanting to, and making plans to, make Aliyah...

One must remember the Torah Parasha we read recently about the incident of the spies...

[The proud Jew]

You know I find it odd that the only people that are commenting here are living in Hutz L"artz

Im confused with what you wrote about ("living in Hutz L"artz).

[The proud Jew]

Come on, don't put so much blind faith in such negative stereotypes about the Israelis...
Have American Jews always had that attitude of love your fellow Jews, toward European Jewry for example ? Well, thank you for your deafening silence during WWII.
Have American Jews that attitude of love your fellow Jews now toward Israeli Jews ? Well, thank you for having contributed to bringing Obama to power.

Negative stereotypes? The reason why people do that stuff in israel because its hard to make a living under boulshavic rule. So many beuracracys choking off jewish brainpower. Our movement is not just political, but also a sociological movement to incorperate torah values into the culture. But recently after my torah studies I learned that hashem has a plan for all of us. With american jews voting for obama yimach schmo, is all part of hashems ultimate plan.

[muman613]

Im confused with what you wrote about ("living in Hutz L"artz).

Hutz L'artz means Outside the Land... Those who live in Israel sometimes question if those Jews who live outside should have a say on how things are done in the Land.

[Dr. Dan]

Listen israel is not the usa.  There is good and bad with both. israel is a better to be than the usa, but you have to choose your city wisely

[Meerkat]

i am currently in chutz l'aretz, though i lived in israel for 11 years. to be honest, im actually glad im spending some time in the US, i think there is a very high chance that if i stayed, i would probably been just another political apathet. i desperately want to go back, will return at around age 18-20. living outside of israel makes you appreciate that country a lot more.

[muman613]

i am currently in chutz l'aretz, though i lived in israel for 11 years. to be honest, im actually glad im spending some time in the US, i think there is a very high chance that if i stayed, i would probably been just another political apathet. i desperately want to go back, will return at around age 18-20. living outside of israel makes you appreciate that country a lot more.

I sure hope you end up back in Eretz Yisroel... You don't want to know what I just read in a Gemara concerning a Jew who leaves the land... It is not pretty..

http://www.revach.net/halacha/tshuvos/Rav-Shlomo-Zalman-Auerbach-Vacationing-in-Chutz-LaAretz/1900

The Talmud relates that any Jew who lives outside the land is equal to an Idol worshipper. And this is hard to swallow...

http://www.dafyomi.co.il/kesuvos/points/ks-ps-110.htm
6) THE ATTRIBUTES OF LIVING IN "ERETZ YISRAEL"

    (a) (Beraisa): A person should live in Eretz Yisrael, even in a city that is mostly Nochrim. He should not live in Chutz la'Aretz, even in a city that is mostly Yisrael.

        1. This is because anyone who lives in Eretz Yisrael is like one who that has a G-d, but anyone who lives in Chutz la'Aretz is like one who does not, like it says "To give to you Eretz Kena'an, to be to you l'Eilokim."

    (b) Objection: You cannot say that one who does not live in Eretz Yisrael is like one who does not have a G-d!
    (c) Correction: Rather, anyone who lives in Chutz la'Aretz is like one who serves idolatry (Rashi (Devarim 4:28 and 28:64) - because he serves idolators or pays taxes that support idolatry).

        1. Question: "I was expelled from (Eretz Yisrael)... I was told to go serve idolatry" - did anyone tell David to serve idolatry?!
        2. Answer: Rather, this teaches that anyone who lives in Chutz la'Aretz is like one who serves idolatry.