Kosher

[Ephraim]

Does G-d say you must eat Kosher,or you have sinned? Or you need to eat Kosher to be healthy?

[muman613]

Does G-d say you must eat Kosher,or you have sinned? Or you need to eat Kosher to be healthy?

A Jew is commanded to keep Kosher.... It is not negotiable and it is certainly an aveirah {sin} to eat non-kosher food...

Non Jews don't have to keep Kosher as it is not one of the Noachide laws. The only food related law for Noachides is to not eat meat torn from a living animal...

Regarding whether Kosher is healthy or not? We don't believe it has any relations to physical health but it certainly has a huge impact on spiritual health...

There are two signs of a Kosher animal:

1) Chews cud
2) Split Hooves

All vegetables are kosher but they must be inspected for insects. No creature which crawls, or is a bottom-feeder, or is a predator, are allowed for Jews...

There is also the command to not mix dairy with meat...

http://www.chabad.org/library/howto/wizard_cdo/aid/113425/jewish/What-is-Kosher.htm

What is Kosher

The Hebrew word kosher means "fit." The kosher laws define the foods that are fit for consumption for a Jew.

The kosher laws were commanded by G-d to the Children of Israel in the Sinai desert. Moses taught them to the people and wrote the basics of these laws in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14; the details and particulars were handed down through the generations and eventually written down in the Mishnah and Talmud. To these were added various ordinances enacted through the generations by the rabbinical authorities as "safeguards" for the biblical laws.

Throughout our 4000-year history, the observance of kosher has been a hallmark of Jewish identity. Perhaps more than any other "mitzvah," the kosher laws emphasize that Judaism is much more than a "religion" in the conventional sense of the word. To the Jew, holiness is not confined to holy places and times outside the everyday; rather, life in its totality is a sacred endeavor. Even the seemingly mundane activity of eating is a G-dly act and a uniquely Jewish experience.

http://www.akhlah.com/history_tradition/kosher/kosher_introduction.php

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/kosher-why/

The Laws of Kashrut
(top)

1. The first category of kashrut laws deals with animals and their byproducts.

   1. A kosher animal must be a ruminant (chew its cud) and have split hooves - so cows, sheep, goats and deer are all kosher, whereas camels (ruminants without split hooves) are not kosher, and pigs (having split hooves but not chewing their cud) are not kosher. Most common fowl are kosher, like chickens, ducks and geese, but the birds of prey (hawks, eagles, owls, parrots) are not kosher. A sea creature is only kosher if it has fins and scales, so most species of fish are kosher (tuna, salmon, flounder, trout, etc.) but all shellfish are not kosher; dolphins and whales are not kosher, jellyfish, sea slugs (my sincere apologies about this one) and squids are not kosher either. There are four species of locust that are kosher, but are not commonly consumed by the majority of Jews (Thank G-d for that). Any product of a non-kosher animal is also non-kosher (e.g. milk, gelatine, rennet). The exception to this rule is bee's honey.

   2. In order to eat an animal or bird it must be slaughtered according to Jewish law (Shechita). This involves cutting the animal's trachea and oesophagus (the carotid artery and jugular veins are also severed in this operation, as are most arteries and veins leading to and from the brain) with a surgically sharp knife that has been thoroughly checked for nicks beforehand. The cut must be swift, without pause, tearing or vertical pressure and must be only done by an expert. It must be performed on the neck of the animal not higher than the epiglottis and not lower than where cilia begin inside the trachea. This method of slaughter reduces the blood pressure in the brain to zero immediately so that the animal loses consciousness in a few seconds and dies in less than a minute. (For comparative scientific studies of shechita and other methods of killing, refer to Shechita: Religious, Historical and Scientific Perspectives, by Munk, Feldheim Publishers, New York, 1976) Fish must be killed before being eaten, but no particular method is specified in Jewish law.

   3. The animal or bird must then be determined to be free of treifot, which are 70 different categories of injuries, diseases or abnormalities whose presence renders the animal non-kosher.

   4. Not all parts of the animal may be eaten. Certain fats, known as Chelev, may not be eaten. As much blood as possible must be removed from the meat, either by soaking, salting and rinsing or by broiling over a fire. In addition the sciatic nerve (gid hanasheh) in each leg and the fat surrounding the nerve must be removed.<\li>

   5. It is forbidden to cook (even without eating), eat (even without cooking) or derive any benefit (e.g. feeding pets) from mixtures of milk (and its by-products), and meat (and most of its by-products). It is also forbidden to cook or eat dairy products together with poultry. Fish, fruits, vegetables, grains, eggs are neutral (pareve).

[Ephraim]

This is my problem I'm a self studying Natzarim, and I believe Yeshua never meant for us to turn away from the laws of judiasm. The romans did for there own convenience! So do I follow the Jews or the Noachides?

[muman613]

This is my problem I'm a self studying Natzarim, and I believe Yeshua never meant for us to turn away from the laws of judiasm. The romans did for there own convenience! So do I follow the Jews or the Noachides?

The Jewish view is that non-Jews should follow the Noachide laws. If you feel in the bottom of your soul a calling to perform all the commandments with love and fear, then you can ask a Rabbi what it would take to convert to Judaism. We don't proselytize or force it on anyone. It must all come from within you, and there will be resistance because we would prefer if people would just keep the seven Noachide laws.

Noachides must not worship idolatry which means ascribing greatness or power to anything other than Hashem {the name we use for G-d in conversation}. There is controversy whether someone who believes that their messiah was an incarnation of G_d is considered an idolater. In my opinion it seems to be the case but there are lenient opinions. Noachides pray only to Hashem and believe the Torah is the word of G-d.

I understand what you are saying about the Roman church. It has been very cruel to the Jewish people over the centuries. We are fortunate things are not as bad as they were 100 years ago. The Romans are the bad guys in Jewish history since they were the ones who Hashem allowed to destroy the Holy Temple, and they expelled us from the land. In our Torah we learn that Essau, the brother of Jacob, becomes the forefather of Edom also known as Rome...

[edu]

I found at http://noachidestudycentre.webs.com/Animals.htm a detailed explanation of the very limited types of food which a non-Jew is prohibited to eat. Non-Jews are allowed except for the foods mentioned in the link above to eat non kosher food.
But even though this is true I think I should be straight with you and point out
that the eaters of pigs, and mice and disgusting things, are portrayed as the bad guys in Yishayahu/Isaiah 66:17.
Some commentaries explain that this is referring to evil Jews.
Others hold that it is a way to describe certain non-jewish enemies, such as the Persians (see Radak).

I should point out that the Iranians, who inhabit the land of ancient Persia, in our times, don't officially eat pig. I haven't read that they are against eating mice. In any case the prophecy does not necessarily refer to them anyway. The words of the prophecy might be against other individuals (and perhaps other nations) from a totally different period of time.

[Ephraim]

   Would it be idolatry if I believed Yeshua was not Hashem,but a great Rabbi and Prophet like Noah? And he is the son of Hashem as we all are children of Hashem. He is the Messiah ,but has not fulfilled the prophecys yet.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

   Would it be idolatry if I believed Yeshua was not Hashem,but a great Rabbi and Prophet like Noah? And he is the son of Hashem as we all are children of Hashem. He is the Messiah ,but has not fulfilled the prophecys yet.

 It would be a mistaken view (at least from our research and knowledge), but it is not idolatry to believe soo in the way you stated. Its just a waste of time to believe someone to be a Messiah who has not fulfilled his role as the Moshiah. (anyway in my view at least the whole concept of Moshiah has been corrupted and misunderstood by the world as some sort of fairy tale with open miracles etc.).

[Ephraim]

Thanks everyone for all the info!

[muman613]

 It would be a mistaken view (at least from our research and knowledge), but it is not idolatry to believe soo in the way you stated. Its just a waste of time to believe someone to be a Messiah who has not fulfilled his role as the Moshiah. (anyway in my view at least the whole concept of Moshiah has been corrupted and misunderstood by the world as some sort of fairy tale with open miracles etc.).

Do you think the Exodus from Mitzrayim was a fairy tale with open miracles? It is said that the final redemption will make the Exodus seem like small potatoes...

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Do you think the Exodus from Mitzrayim was a fairy tale with open miracles? It is said that the final redemption will make the Exodus seem like small potatoes...

 That is different. Point is it doesn't need to be like that. That is also why the sages say that the holiday relevent in the later days will be Purim.
 Also check the potential Moshiahs and what they did and did not do. For example in Yakowv vision he thought when seeing Shimson- him to be the Moshiah until he saw later that he died (in his vision). Rabbi Akiva and the Hachamim (majority) supported Bar Kochba and his revolt. These were all men who fought and did not perform miracles. All living in the "real world" soo to speak. As says the Rambam not to think like the "fools" who believe that people will be flying and all sorts of things in the natural world will change. The only thing different is that Israel will be free from the rulership of the nations, and things will eventually be peaceful and prosperous where the world and especially Israel will be able to focus on serving G-D etc. The Moshiah is just a part of the normalization of the Jewish nation in its land.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

(Indirectly related, but very good)
This is what abolished our kingdom, destroyed our Beit HaMikdash, prolonged our exile, and brought us to our present predicament. Our fathers sinned and are no more.

For they found many astrology books, followed them, and went astray. They imagined that these wisdoms were glorious and greatly beneficial, and they did not study warfare and land conquest. Instead, they imagined that these wisdoms would help them. Therefore, the prophets called them fools; and they certainly were fools, for they followed vanities which cannot avail nor rescue, for they are vain.   (Iggrot U'Teshuvot LeRambam, Iggrot Shonot, p. 21. 204)

The Rambam writes as follows: (Rambam, Laws of Kings and Their Wars, 7:15) "A man should not think at the time of war of his wife, nor of his children, nor of his possessions, but he must free his heart of everything and set himself to the battle. And more - he should think that the entire existence of Israel depends on him. And if he is afraid and turns back, it is as if he spilled the blood of his comrades. And regarding this, it is written: 'Not to melt his brother's heart like his heart'... For everyone who fights with all of his heart, and with the intention to sanctify the Name of Hashem, is promised that he will not be harmed... and he will merit the life of the World To Come." (Rambam, Laws of Kings and Their Wars, 7:15)
 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Our sages declared (Sanhedrin 98a): "R. Abba said: There is no sign of the end of days more revealed than that of (Ezekiel 36: 08 ): 'But you, O mountains of Israel, shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to My people Israel [for it is near to come]." (Rashi: "When Eretz Yisrael yields its produce in abundance, then the end will be near, and no sign of the end of days could be more clear.")

Yet despite our having seen with our own eyes the fulfillment of much of the beginning of the redemption, Israel still dwell in the bitter exile, the cemetery of the nations, refusing to recognize signs of redemption which could not be more obvious. It is as clear as the sun, yet, "Who is blind but My servant?" (Isaiah 42:19). The people are incapable of understanding, because the impure shell of generations of exile blunts their feelings and their understanding.

Rabbi MDK (Rav Meir Kahane)-

“The Sages and prophets did not yearn for the Messianic Era in order
that [the Jews] rule over the entire world, nor in order that they have
dominion over the gentiles, nor that they be exalted through them, nor in
order that they eat, drink and celebrate. Rather, their aspiration was that
[the Jews] be free to involve themselves in Torah and its wisdom,
without anyone to oppress or disturb them, and thus be found worthy of
life in the World to Come”. (Rambam Mishne Torah, Laws of Kings)

This and the above is taken from Israel613.com

[muman613]

I am aware of what Rambam has said concerning the laws of Moshiach, I have posted them here a number of times.

But you seem to believe that only through the might of your own hand will you defeat the enemy. And it is this kind of thinking which is dangerous. The Tanakh and specifically the Chumash repeatedly state that when Jews think that they are mighty they fall into arrogance which results in defeat.

The combination of emmunah and military preparedness will cause us to be undefeatable.

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/532,2125768/Exodus-and-Redemption-Some-Say-the-World-Will-End-in-Fire-Some-Say-in-Ice.html

The Exodus from Egypt was apocalyptic, not only because of the supernatural events that took place during its unfolding, but also because it sparked an extremely significant change within a relatively short amount of time – and without any warning or preparation.  It is true that the events recounted in the Book of Exodus did occur over the course of a few months, but when we think about the amazing transformation that the People of Israel underwent as a result – from a loosely related ethnic group of slaves to a new nation – the redemption from Egypt does indeed seem very sudden and surprising.

While Passover is the festival of redemption, the Exodus from Egypt is commemorated on each of the Biblical festivals and all through the year.  Even events in Jewish history as important as the re-establishment of sovereignty in Israel during the Second Temple era are not considered to be equal to the Exodus. Our Sages teach that only the Final Redemption will be able to overshadow its significance.

The Exodus has also become a prototype of redemption for all nations of the world, a model against which other redemptions are measured and assessed.  The coming of the Messiah is a momentous event – not only for the Jewish people, but for the entire world.  It is not simply a matter of national deliverance, nor even of a Jewish renaissance, but of an intrinsic change in world history. In a certain way, the Final Redemption, as its name implies, marks the "end of history,” or, at least, the end of history as it has been for the last several millennia.
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In every generation and under all circumstances, each and every Jew must be aware of “what G-d did for me when I came out of Egypt.” This is because exile and redemption are first and foremost spiritual matters. Although the exile in Egypt was only the first exile, and the redemption from Egypt was only the first redemption, they are symbolic of all other exiles and redemptions, up to and including the final Redemption through our righteous Moshiach. Regarding the final Redemption, too, the verse states:4 “Similar to the days of your leaving the land of Egypt, will I show him wondrous things.”5 This is because both exile and redemption are basically spiritual in nature.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/43-philosophy/417-the-days-of-the-messiah

 Check these shiurim out on this topic

Part One:  Reality won’t be radically altered when the Messiah arrives.  The Rambam describes the big difference between today and the days of Messiah - Jewish independence.  If the Jewish people choose to live outside Eress Yisrael, we’re not worthy of the Messiah.  A critique of religious Zionists who take a pollyanish view of current events.   

Part Two:  Here’s proof that the Messiah doesn’t have to revive the dead.  He doesn’t have to perform miracles.  And if you think otherwise, you’re a fool.  So says the Rambam.  However, there is a contradiction in the Rambam.

Part Three:  The Raavad disagrees with the Rambam about the sort of leader we’re looking for.  Their argument mirrors the difference between the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds.

 (P.S. when I post this Rav's shiurim, did or do you ever listen, I'm just curious to know?)

[muman613]

http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/43-philosophy/417-the-days-of-the-messiah

 Check these shiurim out on this topic

Part One:  Reality won’t be radically altered when the Messiah arrives.  The Rambam describes the big difference between today and the days of Messiah - Jewish independence.  If the Jewish people choose to live outside Eress Yisrael, we’re not worthy of the Messiah.  A critique of religious Zionists who take a pollyanish view of current events.    

Part Two:  Here’s proof that the Messiah doesn’t have to revive the dead.  He doesn’t have to perform miracles.  And if you think otherwise, you’re a fool.  So says the Rambam.  However, there is a contradiction in the Rambam.

Part Three:  The Raavad disagrees with the Rambam about the sort of leader we’re looking for.  Their argument mirrors the difference between the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds.

 (P.S. when I post this Rav's shiurim, did or do you ever listen, I'm just curious to know?)

Yes, this is all according to the Rambam... It is clear that Moshaich doesn't have to perform miracles... But no doubt it is looking like some miracles are going to be called for to turn things around today...

I ususually listen to Shuirs when I get home from work... I work in front of my computer terminal {i'm a software engineer} and I don't have time to listen... I will listen to about 2 hours of Torah shuirim when I get home at night. I will check out what you have posted tonight.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

. I will listen to about 2 hours of Torah shuirim when I get home at night. I will check out what you have posted tonight.

 Aight, koool. enjoy.

( Also  I just asked if you in the past listened to this Rav, thats all)

[Ephraim]

Sorry guys! I'm not trying to start things,and  I'm Not trying push Yeshua on anyone! I'm trying to learn about Judiasm and Yeshua before constantine. Sorry

[muman613]

Aight, koool. enjoy.

( Also  I just asked if you in the past listened to this Rav, thats all)

I am listening to the shuir currently. I have a few questions about this Rabbi...

He seems to have some kind of accent. Do you know where he is from? His website doesn't discuss where he grew up or where he learned from.

http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/component/content/article/62-misc/202-machon-shilo-about-us

At that link he goes to great extent to explain that his understanding of Judaism is more 'genuine' or otherwise his Torah is exceptional. In the process of his explanation he seems to disparage and misunderstand 'Orthodox Judaism'. I don't know why he claims that Orthodox Rabbis keep strict halachas and do not make judgements of Halacha in light of current circumstances. I have read an extensive piece in an Orthodox publication concerning how Halacha must be flexible and be able to adapt to modern situations.

However Orthodox Judaism too is flawed; it was by definition a response to the rise of Reform Judaism in the early 19th century. Responding to the Reform movement’s complete disregard for traditional practice and established religious jurisprudence, the new and reactionary “Orthodox Judaism” (a previously unknown term) adopted an extreme and opposite approach, viz. that the Ashkenazi Jewish practice which had evolved in Europe till that time should be enshrined, denying the possibility of any change whatever, even where such change is mandated by the Tora itself.

This is not and never was the intent of Halachic Judaism. The rabbinical authorities of the past, Hazal, the G'onim and the Rishonim, always understood the need and were willing to take stock of the realities of the present, to allow changes for the better. They were always redefining and reinventing certain elements of Halakhah, even changing well-established practices to suit the different circumstances and needs of the Jewish people in their times.

I like his discussion but I sometimes wonder about Rabbis who feel a need to speak about other Rabbis in order to make himself seem exceptional. I have listened to many Rabbis and I discover that some will spend a good deal of time talking about other Rabbis. Those Rabbis I start to lose respect for.

I have nothing against Orthodox Judaism as it exists currently. Torah and Mitzvot are good for a Jew even in Galut. Certainly we want all Jews, especially the Orthodox Jews, to make aliyah. Many of the Orthodox Jews I know have traveled to Israel regularly and support Jewish causes in the state.

[muman613]

I just discovered the answer to my first question using wikipedia...

It is great that he learned at Merkaz HaRav Kook yeshiva, I have heard good things.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bar-Hayim

Rabbi Bar-Hayim was born David Mandel 24 February 1960 in Sydney, Australia. He studied at the Merkaz Harav Kook yeshiva in Jerusalem for 10 years. He now lectures in the greater Jerusalem area and publishes articles in English and Hebrew on various web sites.[2] Although an Orthodox rabbi, Bar-Hayim prefers the term "Halakhic Judaism", explaining that "Orthodox Judaism is flawed as it was by definition a response to the rise of Reform Judaism in the early 19th century. Responding to the Reform movement’s complete disregard for traditional practice and established religious jurisprudence, the new and reactionary “Orthodox Judaism” (a previously unknown term) adopted an extreme and opposite approach, viz. that the Ashkenazi Jewish practice which had evolved in Europe until that time should be enshrined, denying the possibility of any change whatever, even where such change is mandated by the Torah itself."[3]


My question is what halachic decisions of the Orthodox does he have issue with?

[muman613]

I am impressed with his zealous approach to the obligation of a Jew to live in the land.

I disagree with his position that the Jerusalem Talmud is the more authentic Talmud. I do respect the Jerusalem Talmud and the only Talmud volume currently on my bookshelf is Tractate Berachos of the Jerusalem Talmud. But there is much more written in the Babylonian Talmud. I believe that the majority of the Jews were in Babylon and only a minority remained in Eretz Yisroel when the Jerusalem Talmud was written.

I believe Jews should look at both Talmuds to determine the answer. I am not aware that they contradict one another, do they?


http://arielzellman.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/machon-shilo-interview-with-rdavid-bar-hayim/

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Muman- he doesn't say the Jerushalmi is more authentic then the Bavli, they are equal in  his eyes and everything -Bavli, Jerushalmi, Mishna, Braitot, etc. (list provided by Rambam) is taken into consideration in his Halahic rulings.

At that link he goes to great extent to explain that his understanding of Judaism is more 'genuine' or otherwise his Torah is exceptional. In the process of his explanation he seems to disparage and misunderstand 'Orthodox Judaism'. "
 

Doesn't everybody make his own points, that is why they make them, because they usually believe in them. You are reading too much into this, and are misunderstanding him yourself. He is saying that the Halahic system today is not like it used to be with giants like the Rambam, Ramban, Vilna Gaon, the Geonim etc. who always strived for truth as opposed to just picking teams (as if in a football game).  
 He also is and does make an actual decision in his rulings and not just memorize the Shulhan Aruch and not think for himself as many Rabbis are taught to not do. Its a breakdown of the authentic Halahic system, where Rabbis cannot decide.
 
  Since you brought this part up I'll post here the relevant topic on this issue - of Rabbinic paralysis (in case your interested).
 http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/43-philosophy/358-rabbinic-paralysis-why-rabbis-wont-take-responsibility
 
 "During a student's first years in yeshiva he learns to think creatively and ask probing questions. However, when he embarks on his rabbinical studies, the rules change. Suddenly all that is a thing of the past. Now he is taught not to think, for his opinion is not important; he is now taught that he must simply accept. This approach, a far cry from the methodology of the Talmud, produces "rabbis" incapable of analyzing primary sources and reaching an independent conclusion "

 (not sure if the same shiur,)-  http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/41-audiohalakha/248-why-are-rabbis-afraid-to-decide-lomdus-post-modernism-part-one
 Rabbis are taught not to think for themselves.  They are afraid to say  what they really think, if they believe it challenges conventional wisdom.  Hear how the pricniple of lomdus has changed the way mainstream modern Jews interpet Halachka. Is that a good thing?

http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/41-audiohalakha/249-why-are-rabbis-afraid-to-decide-lomdus-post-modernism-part-two
 Hear how the principle of lomdus has changed the way orthodox Jews interpet Halacha. This relatively modern development in Halachic decision making and interpretation has come to be almost universally accepted and yet is held out as the way it always was.  Have we been dumbed down?

 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

By the way I nor HaRav are bashing any Rabbis. I learn from (either online) and many times directly with different rabbanim as well. He is just talking about the system and the positive changes that need to be done for the betterment of the nation and the honer of the Torah.

[muman613]

I believe you and I will listen to more to try to understand. I have heard only good things about this Rabbi...