Gender separation is sexist? The news media and the Erev Rav are the sexists!

[muman613]

Might be at hebrewbooks.org    They have a lot of hebrew sefarim, I would give that a try, unless edu has an actual link to it somewhere.

Well... I checked out the site but since my Lashon HaKodesh is so bad I find it hard to find the sefer I am looking for. Also in order to read the text in the original Ivrit will pose a challenge.. But after browsing around it seems that they offer a lot of great sofrim...

Thank you..

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Yea thanks as well. (Just read some stuff there) they have books in English (and a section) as well (most of it seems Chabad though). But they have a goo book by R' Hirsch.

[edu]

After I posted the quote from Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, I saw that Rabbi Melamed raised the same issue in his editorial at http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/11057
Here is a quote from the first part of his article (in the second half he deals with the subject of how to react to women singers in the army)

Q: According to Jewish law, must there be separate public transportation and streets for men and women, or is it a 'hiddur mitzvah' (enhancement or meticulous observance beyond the formal demands of the law)?

A: Clearly, there is no obligation, and not one eminent Rabbi who dealt with halakhic questions rising from traveling on buses, claimed that it was an obligation (see 'Igrot Moshe', Yoreh Deah 2:14; Darchei Tahara 5:50). Therefore, the entire question is whether or not it is considered a 'hiddur mitzvah'.

The Difference between Requirement and 'Hiddur'

The difference between a mitzvah which one is required to fulfill and a 'hiddur mitzvah', is that a required mitzvah must be fulfilled even under difficult circumstances, and even when, seemingly, the results of its fulfillment will be problematic.

The famous example of this is what our Sages said concerning King Hizkiyahu, who refrained from fulfilling the mitzvah of 'puru u'rvu' (being fruitful and multiplying) because he saw in 'ruach ha'kodesh' (Divine inspiration) that he would beget evil children. The prophet Isaiah came to inform him that as a result of this sin, Hizkiyahu would die in this world, and not live in the World to Come.

Hizkiyahu repented, and was awarded an additional fifteen years of life, in which he had a son, Menashe, who indeed was the most evil of all Israel's kings (Tractate Berachot 10a). Seemingly, Hizkiyahu's first thought was correct; however, from the seed of the evil King Menashe, the ancestry of King David was continued, including many eminent leaders of Israel, until our righteous Mashiach, may he come speedily in our days. We must fulfill the mitzvot and not engage in cost-benefit calculations.

On the other hand, when it comes to a 'hiddur mitzvah', the reward incurred by its observance must be weighed against the loss likely to be suffered by its performance. At first glance, the 'hiddur' might seem beneficial, but in the future, damaging things can stem from it. This is what is known as the 'weighing of saintliness'.

The 'Weighing of Saintliness'

In his book "Misilat Yisharim" (chapter 20), Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzato (also known as the Ramchal) wrote that "weighing saintliness", that is deciding when that trait is inappropriate or suitable, is "an extremely fundamental process".

The episode of Gedaliah ben Achikam (Jeremiah 40:13), the leader appointed by the Babylonian conquerors to govern Judea after the Temple's destruction, provides a clear illustration of this fact. Because of his abundant saintliness, which would not permit him to judge his enemy Yishmael adversely, or which would not permit him to receive slander, he said to Yochanan ben Kareach, "You are speaking falsely of Yishmael."

In the end, Yishmael murdered Gedaliah, and all the people with him, and Israel's last hope of rebuilding Judea was extinguished. The Talmud (Tractate Nidah 61a) attributes the death of those men who were killed to the sin of Gedaliah's abundant saintliness.

It was also such incorrectly "weighed" saintliness in the incident of Bar Kamtza that was responsible for the destruction of the Temple. The Talmud (Tractate Gittin 56a) relates the story of Rabbi Zechariah ben Avkulos, who, even in a situation of national danger. 'pikuach nefesh', refused to sacrifice an imperfect animal for the Caesar, and thus caused the war which lead to the destruction of the Second Temple. It was to this that Rabbi Yochanan was referring when he said, "The humility of Rabbi Zechariah destroyed our Temple, consumed our Sanctuary and exiled us among the nations."

Rabbi Luzzato adds that if a certain custom of saintliness provokes laughter or ridicule, it should not be performed.

Segregating Buses and Streets is not Saintliness

Seemingly, from an aspect of modesty, segregating buses and streets is advantageous; however, its damage exceeds its benfits, for a number of reasons:

First, all issues of 'hiddur mitzvah' should be personal acts, for in halakhah there are clear definitions of what is required, what is optional,. When customs of 'hiddur' are turned into obligatory public decrees, such policies destroy the foundations of Torah and halakhah.

Secondly, when some people are negatively affected by the 'hiddur', the damage caused is immeasurably greater than any benefits. However, if a certain group of people want to organize private buses operated according to customs they have chosen to keep, this does not negatively affect anyone who is not a member of the group, for no one is forced to travel with them.

Thirdly, this type of policy harms proper family behavior.. According to these rules, a man cannot sit next to his wife, a father cannot sit next to his daughter, and a mother cannot sit next to her son. At public events, it is the custom of religious Jews to have separate seating for men and women; however, traveling on a bus is not considered a public act, but rather an individual act that each person does for himself.

Fourthly, when dealing with the laws of modesty, special care must be taken, for sometimes additional laws are liable to arouse more forbidden thoughts. If this is the case, one could claim that all the customs of modesty which the Sages decreed are liable to cause forbidden thoughts. However, there is a significant difference between the regulations of the Sages and what is invented by various personalities from hareidi circlest. In their regulations, the Sages were able to create a modest society with respectable distance between men and women, except for spouses, but they did not attempt to prevent informal encounters, whereas the new stringencies try to prevent them. Since it is impossible to prevent this, any informal encounter or glimpse of a woman will only give rise to unwanted urges.