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Offline Sveta

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The Torah View On Egypt
« on: September 07, 2012, 12:14:47 AM »
Since some people think Egypt is worth saving, I'm posting this. Egypt is a Hell on Earth. From Ancient Egypt to current times, Egypt is an immoral place. Modern day Egyptian Arab Muslim Nazis such as Nasser, YM"S are just the same as modern day Pharoahs.

This does not include Sinai since Sinai is not Halachically part of Egypt. In Biblical days, Halachic Egypt was just the area around the Nile. Even today the vast majority of the rest of Egypt's territories are barren desert. Even Egyptians claiming to rule over other areas in Biblical times has no validity. They are occupiers just as others sons sons of Ham (Such as Canaan) occupied the Asian parts of the Middle East and not the African continent as aloted them by Noah. When Mashiach comes, Israel will rule up to the East bank of the Nile, but probably not the strip along the Nile that is Halachic Egypt as well as the West bank of the Nile.

Parasha Halachah

The Prohibition Against Living in Egypt

By Aryeh Citron

The prohibition to live in Egypt is mentioned three times in the Torah. It is first found in Exodus.1 Before the splitting of the sea, Moses said to the people, "Don't be afraid! Stand firm and see G‑d's salvation that He will wreak for you today, for the way you have seen the Egyptians is [only] today, [but] you shall no longer continue to see them for eternity.'"

This is understood by the commentaries2 as a prohibition against returning to Egypt, and not merely as a prophecy that we will not see the might of the Egyptians again.

The second time we find the prohibition is in Deuteronomy. One of the prohibitions upon a Jewish king is that he may not acquire too many horses,3 "so that he will not bring the people back to Egypt in order to acquire many horses, for G‑d said to you, 'You shall not return that way any more.'"

Towards the end of Deuteronomy, the Torah details a litany of terrible curses that will befall the Jews should they not fulfill the commandments properly. The last verse of these curses reads4: "And G‑d will bring you back to Egypt in ships, through the way about which I had said to you, 'you will never see it again...'"

The Reasons

Various reasons are given for this prohibition. Some of them are:

The people of Egypt were very immoral, as the verse states5: "Like the practice of the land of Egypt, in which you dwelled, you shall not do," and going to live there might influence the Jews in a negative way.6
The return of the Jews to Egypt would be an affront to G‑d, who specifically saved us from slavery there and removed us from there.7
The Arizal explains that wherever a Jew lives, he or she needs to extract the holiness that is "hidden" in that place and elevate it. When the Jews left Egypt, however, they emptied it of all holiness. The Talmud8 states "they made it like a [bird] trap that has no grain, and like the depths [of the sea] which have no fish." Therefore, it is considered pointless for a Jew to live in Egypt, as he cannot accomplish any elevation of holiness there.9

The Consequences

The Jerusalem Talmud10 tells us that the Jews ignored these verses three times, and each time there were tragic consequences.

The first was when the Jews of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, under the leadership of King Hosea ben Elah, appealed to Egypt for aid against the Assyrians. This was against the warnings of the prophet Isaiah:11 "Woe to those who go down to Egypt for aid, and who rely on horses and trust in chariots which are many, and on riders who are very strong, and they did not rely on the Holy One of Israel, and G‑d they did not seek… Now the Egyptians are men and not G‑d, and their horses are flesh and not spirit, and G‑d shall turn His hand, and the helper shall stumble and the helped one shall fall, and together all of them shall perish."

Shalmaneser, king of Assyria, found out that the Jews had appealed to Egypt and, taking it as a sign of rebellion, invaded the Northern Kingdom, conquering the land and exiling its ten tribes to distant lands. The ten tribes were never heard from again. For more on this, see End of the Kingdom of Israel.

The second time was after the destruction of the First Temple, when Jeremiah warned the Jews not to go down to Egypt. Unfortunately, the Jews, led by Yochanan ben Kare'ach, did not listen, and they went to Egypt, where they met tragedy. In the words of Jeremiah (42:15-16): "And now, therefore, hearken to the word of G‑d, O remnant of Judah, so said the Lord of Hosts, the G‑d of Israel: If you direct your faces to come to Egypt and you come to dwell there, the sword that you fear will overtake you there in the land of Egypt, and the famine that you are worried about shall overtake you there in Egypt, and there you shall die..." (See here for more on this sad episode.)

And the third time, after the destruction of the Second Temple, many Jews sought haven in Egypt. Fifty years later, the Roman Emperor Trajan destroyed that entire community.

Understanding the Historic Jewish Presence in Egypt

Nevertheless, despite these verses and the tragedies detailed above, we find that many G‑d-fearing Jewish communities were established in Egypt, and many leaders of the Jewish people lived there. To name some of them: Maimonides, The Radvaz (Rabbi Dovid ben Zimra, 1479-1589), Rabbi Betzalel Ashekenazi (author of the Shitah Mekubetezet, and teacher of the Arizal), and the Arizal (in his youth).

Several explanations have been given for this. Some of them are:

The prohibition applies only to returning to Egypt from Israel (thus reversing the path of the Exodus—see the second reason for the prohibition, above).12
Along these lines, some say that it's only forbidden to return to Egypt via the same route of 42 encampments that the Jews followed in the desert.13
Some say that the prohibition only applied when the people of Egypt were particularly immoral, but is not a prohibition for all times.14
In a similar vein, some say that since most of the native Egyptians were exiled by Sennacherib and the Assyrians, the prohibition no longer applies.15
Some explain that the prohibition only applied when the Jews lived in the Holy land, and not after the destruction of the Temples and the ensuing exiles.16
The Radvaz17 says that the actual Torah prohibition would be violated only if a person moved to Egypt with the intention of living there. But a person may move there for temporary asylum or while he does some business. Once a person is there, if he decides to stay, it is still forbidden but not as severe, as it involves no physical action. Therefore, if the economic situation is difficult in other lands or if the Jews in other lands are being persecuted, it is permissible for those already in Egypt to stay.

Despite all of this, there is a tradition18 that Maimonides signed his letters saying that he is one who "transgresses three commandments every single day" (the three verses mentioned above). Nevertheless, it seems that this was simply humility on his part, and that it was not actually forbidden, as we have explained.

The Details

The entire land of Egypt is included in the prohibition.19
One may go there for business or while on the way to another land. The prohibition is against settling there.20
Similarly, one may go to Egypt for sightseeing or on any other temporary trip.21
If the land of Egypt were to be conquered by a Jewish king under the guidance of a Sanhedrin, the prohibition would no longer apply. This is because at that point it would start being considered part of the Land of Israel.22
 
FOOTNOTES

1.  Exodus 14:13.
 
2.  Nachmanides on the verse, based on Mechilta.
 
3.  Deuteronomy 17:16.
 
4.  Ibid. 28:68.
 
5.  Leviticus 18:3.
 
6.  Rabeinu Bechayeh; Maimonides' Sefer Hamitzvot, Negative Commandment number 46.
 
7.  Based on the explanation of the Yere'im quoted below.
 
8.  Berachot 9b.
 
9.  Sefer Halikutim, beginning of Parshat Ki Teitzei. See also Likutei Sichot, vol. 19, second sicha for Parshat Shoftim, fn. 15.
 
10.  Sukkah 5:1.
 
11.  Chapter 31, verses 1 and 3.
 
12.  Rabbi Eliezer of Metz in the Yere'im, s. 309.
 
13.  Divrei Shaul by Rabbi Yosef Shaul Halevi Nathansohn, Mahadurah Kamah, parshat Masei.
 
14.  Rabeinu Bechayeh ibid.
 
15.  Semag Negative Command 227, and Ritvah on Yomah 38a. Regarding those incidents mentioned above, cited from the Jerusalem Talmud, in which the Jews were punished twice for returning to Egypt even after the time of Sennacherib, it appears – according to Heichal Yitzchok (by Rabbi Isaac HeLevi Herzog), Even Ha'ezer, Vol. 1, Siman 12. – that the Jerusalem Talmud ascribes to a different version of history, in which the native Egyptians were not exiled by Sennacherib. (See Tosefta Kiddushin Chapter 5, and Sotah 9a Tosafot, d.h. Minyamin). On the other hand, Maimonides (Laws of Forbidden Relationships, end of chapter 12) rules that the Egyptians, too, were exiled.
 
16.  Ritva ibid.
 
17.  Commentary on Rambam, Laws of Kings, 5, 7 & 8.
 
18.  Quoted in Kaftor Va'ferach, Chapter 5.
 
19.  See Talmud, Sukah 51b for the exact boundaries.
 
20.  Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin, end of 10th chapter.
 
21.  Heichal Yitzchok, ibid.
 
22.  Maimonides, Laws of Kings, 5:8.
 
By Aryeh Citron

Rabbi Aryeh Citron was educated in Chabad yeshivahs in Los Angeles, New York, Israel and Australia. He was the Rosh Kollel of The Shul of Bal Harbour, Florida, and is now an adult Torah teacher in Surfside, Florida. He teaches classes on Talmud, Chassidism, Jewish history and contemporary Jewish law.

The content on this page is copyrighted by the author, publisher and/or Chabad.org, and is produced by Chabad.org. If you enjoyed this article, we encourage you to distribute it further, provided that you comply with the copyright policy.   
 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 01:55:22 AM by IsraeliHeart »

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 12:20:01 AM »
I always understood the concept of Egypt to also mean the Galut...

That is if we are in Eretz Yisrael, we should never leave there to live in the Galut especially if it is a nation that treated you like the way Egypt treated the Israelites.

So for example, you might have some Iranian Jews who live in the United States for many years who will say they would move back to Iran once the government changes.  That's like returning to Egypt...but technically the US and Iran are Galut.

But as far as Egypt, I remember reading in the Torah, that Gd intends on keeping Egypt on the map as well as Assyria (Syria) and Babylon (Iraq).  And they will always be our enemies with a peace treaty or no peace treaty.  And why would Gd keep this Jew hating nations around?  To keep the Jews on their toes so that they stick together rather than be at each others' throats.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Sveta

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 01:57:40 AM »
Maybe Chaim has something to add since his family lived there many years.

The Hebrew name for Egypt is Mitzrayim, from Metzar (Limitations) and I think it is related to the word imprisonment or narrow straits (Like Min HaMetzar Karati Ka.).


Offline muman613

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2012, 02:14:06 AM »
IsraeiHeart,

I will be the 1st to throw a cog in the hate egyptians message you have laid out. Now I am not one who loves Egypt, and I recall saying once that I would have wanted to kill Pharoah with my own hands if I was alive at the time. But here is an interesting thing that the Torah commands us, and we just read it about a week ago {Parasha Ki Tetze}...

"You shall not hate an Edomite, for he is your brother; and you shall not hate an Egyptian, for you were a stranger in his land." [Devorim 23:8]

Quote
http://www.torahinmotion.org/discussions-and-blogs/bo-helping-our-enemies

Over and over again, we are instructed to be kind to strangers because we were strangers in the land of Egypt.  While the concept of not letting our past experiences allow us to hurt others in the present is readily understood—if not always implemented—the Torah demands much more.  “Do not despise the Egyptian, since you were a stranger in his land” (Devarim 23:8).  What an incredible command!  The Egyptians, the descendants of those who enslaved and killed us—the nation whose sins were so great that “there was no house where there were no dead” (12:30)—are not to be hated by us.  And this despite the fact that we are to utterly reject the Egyptian lifestyle: “Do not follow the ways of the Egyptians where you once lived” (Vayikra 18:3).  Moreover, although it was the Egyptians who were the first to come up with a final solution to their Jewish problem, the Torah nonetheless wants us to focus on the fact that it was our place of residence for hundreds of years.  It is precisely in order to instill in the departing Israelites more pleasant memories of the Egyptians that some commentaries explain the divine command to “let each man request from his neighbor and every woman from her neighbor jewels of gold and jewels of silver” (11:2).
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Sveta

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2012, 02:19:33 AM »
The Jews sang Shirah in celebreation of the drowning of Egyptians. Only the angels were forbidden to celebrate (Kahanists are against citing that as a reason for Half Hallel on Chol HaMoed through the end of Pesach.).


Offline muman613

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2012, 02:21:21 AM »
The Jews sang Shirah in celebreation of the drowning of Egyptians. Only the angels were forbidden to celebrate (Kahanists are against citing that as a reason for Half Hallel on Chol HaMoed through the end of Pesach.).

Yes, I wrote about this a few years ago, the entire story from the Talmud... And I have posted the Song at the Sea in the Torah section many times. We say it every day in the our davening. And sing it on Shabbat.


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline IsraelForever

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2012, 02:37:00 AM »
Quote from: muman613
"You shall not hate an Edomite, for he is your brother; and you shall not hate an Egyptian, for you were a stranger in his land." [Devorim 23:8]
Having read this just now, I'm curious, then, about the following:  Should the Jews who lived through Germany during the Shoah not hate Germans for the same reason? 

Offline muman613

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2012, 02:53:55 AM »
I think the verse on not hating the Edomite and Egyptian is talking about not hating converts from these nations, because the verse after it says they may enter the congregation in their third generation.

9 The third generation of children born to them may enter the assembly of the Lord.

Yes we are permitted to marry Egyptians, but other nations are not permitted...

 Here is a blurb on the forbidden nations:

http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha-overview/chapter27.html

Quote
b) Intermarriage and Conversion

It is forbidden for Jews to have sexual relations with non-Jews, as it says "You shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughter to his son nor take his daughter for your son"14; the sages extended this prohibition to non-marital relations.e But if they become proselytes we are permitted to marry them. In olden times, when these nations were still identifiable, it was forbidden for a woman to marry any male descendant of an Ammonite or Moabite proselyte, as it says "An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter the congregation of Ha-Shem"15; and it was forbidden to marry Egyptian or Edomite proselytes or their children, as it says "[You shall not despise an Edomite, for he is your brother; you shall not despise an Egyptian, for you were a dweller in his land;] the children of the third generation that are born to them may enter the congregation of Ha-Shem".16 Intermarriage with descendants of the Canaanite nations (nesinim) was also rabbinically forbidden.f

To become a proselyte one must undergo immersion and (for a man) circumcision, and when the Temple exists, bring a burnt-offering. When a person wishes to become a proselyte an inquiry is conducted to make certain that he is not doing it for ulterior motives. He is then warned about the difficulty of observing the Torah; if he persists in spite of this he is accepted. A proselyte is regarded as a newborn child having no relatives; but he is rabbinically forbidden to marry close relatives on the mother's side.g
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2012, 03:16:56 AM »
I had a dream I was in Egypt earlier this year. It was quite vivid and, according to some people familiar with the Middle East I spoke to, relatively accurate. I still remember the bulk of it.

Believe it or not, Muzzie savagery was not part of the dream, albeit I was surrounded by a group of menacing young men while sitting in my car at one point.

Online Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2012, 04:00:59 AM »
IsraeiHeart,

I will be the 1st to throw a cog in the hate egyptians message you have laid out. Now I am not one who loves Egypt, and I recall saying once that I would have wanted to kill Pharoah with my own hands if I was alive at the time. But here is an interesting thing that the Torah commands us, and we just read it about a week ago {Parasha Ki Tetze}...

"You shall not hate an Edomite, for he is your brother; and you shall not hate an Egyptian, for you were a stranger in his land." [Devorim 23:8]

בס''ד

As Dan Ben Noah correctly points out, this only refers to gerim (converts to Judaism).

We are commanded to hate enemy nations that committed crimes against us, and to destroy those who seek to destroy us.

The commentary on this passage from the so-called "torahinmotion" blog by Jay Kelman is absolutely pathetic. Kelman correctly states that the Egyptians sought a Nazi-like "final solution" against the Jews yet he argues that we are commanded to love the Egyptian Nazis. He says we have to separate the person from his actions. Even if the person's actions are monstrous, we still have to love him. I suppose that means we should love Hitler yimach shmo because we have to separate him from his actions. Like so many Jews in our orphaned generation, Jay Kelman is both immoral and insane.

Online Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2012, 04:21:19 AM »
בס''ד

Now I see that this "rabbi" Jay Kelman received the Award for Rabbinic Leadership from the United Jewish Communities Federation of North America. That is the UJA-Federation Judenrat kapo establishment organization that has given literally billions of Jewish dollars to the most evil causes under the sun for decades. The only way Kelman gets that award is if he raises big bucks for these leftist, assimilated, intermarried pieces of subhuman garbage who promote national suicide for both Israel and galut Jewry.

Kelman is also involved with the Rabbinical Council of America, an "Orthodox" group whose president, Shmuel Goldin yimach shmo, formed "Shvil HaZahav" - the "Orthodox" wing of "Peace Now".

Offline muman613

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2012, 02:49:05 PM »
I did not get that from that site I posted.

The commandment to not Hate the Egyptian is a difficult one to understand. It is not a command, as you stated Chaim, to love our enemy. And that Rabbi did not suggest that it is a command to love them.

What it is, according to my understanding, a general command to not hold old hatred against people. I brought it to this discussion to point out that the Torah does not consider hatred an optimal trait. Do you disagree with this Chaim? Or are you saying that we should hold on to hatred like this. I believe Hashem, and his Torah, gave us this commandment for a very good reason.

I can bring several other quotes from Rabbis which support what I have said here. But I will not post any more for fear of Lashon Hara on this forum.


PS: Could you please bring some sources which support you view that the command is only about Gerim? You know that the Torah expressly commands us to 'Love the Gerim' so why would there need to be a second commandment about the Gerim? It is because this is specifically about nations which have wronged the Jewish people.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/940270/jewish/Positive-Commandment-207.htm
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 03:21:43 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2012, 03:05:06 PM »
And I don't think we differ when it comes to hating the enemy. I am baffled why you would even think that I am suggesting, or would bring any Torah, which suggests otherwise. I have been very clear in my expression of the idea that we must hate evil, and work against it.

This command about Not Hating an Egyptian is not intended to say not to hate an enemy. I brought it because I wanted to show that the Torah doesn't consider it good for our psyche to hold on to old hatred. To have HaKaret HaTov {Appreciating the Good} towards everything, even the hard and bad things, in life.


Quote
http://www.cckollel.org/html/parsha/shemos/vayerah1997.shtml

We find a further illustration of hakaras hatov when the Jews left Egypt. The verse says that the children of Israel were armed when they went out from Egypt. The Chasam Sofer asks: Why was it necessary for HaShem to split the Red Sea and to drown the Egyptians in a spectacular, miraculous manner when HaShem could have made the Jews victorious through natural means by allowing them to use the weapons at their disposal? He responds that it would not be proper for the Jews to confront the Egyptians directly in a head-on conflict, to wage war against them with sword in hand. The Torah commands us "lo tisaiv mitzri - ki ger hayisa baartzo" "You should not hate an Egyptian because you were a sojourner in his land . "The Rabbis explain the underlying rationale for this commandment, "Do not cast a stone in a cistern from which you drink water." Although the Jewish people suffered greatly at the hands of the Egyptians, they also derived benefit from living as a guest in their land. The Egyptians had to be punished by Hashem in an indirect manner rather than to succumb directly to an assault by the Jewish people.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2012, 03:10:03 PM »
If Egyptians are intrinsically bad people and we should hate them.... Then why does the Torah allow us to marry them? Some others we are not permitted... Thus there must be a lesson in why Egyptians specifically are permitted.

Quote
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/901723/jewish/Negative-Commandments.htm
55. Not to prevent the third generation of Egyptian [converts] from marrying among [the Jewish peo­ple], as [Deuteronomy 23:8] states: "Do not [ut­terly] despise an Egyptian."


This does not contradict the command to hate evil as we learn from King David:

Quote
http://torah.org/learning/beyond-pshat/5762/pinchas.html?print=1

The Ohr HaChaim HaKadosh answers that the Jews, who remained alive after the plague, needed to be atoned for the lust that they had in their hearts after witnessing the Baal Peor. The Jews who were exposed to the Baal Peor and the seductive behavior of the non-Jewish women were affected to a great degree. Although the event had passed they still had the lust in their hearts. A person is not able to do teshuvah and be fully forgiven unless he is fully purged from that desire. Therefore Hashem commanded the Jewish people, "You should Harass the Midianite and see them in the most detestable light." The Jew should despise them for what they represent. As a result of this mindset, there will no longer be any trace of that previous experience and thus allow the Jew to be fully atoned through teshuvah. As Dovid HaMelech (King David) states, "I shall hate those who hate You (Hashem)." Meaning, if we do not despise those who are contrary to G-d then we are susceptible to the influences of those people. There is no "middle of the road" or neutral position regarding not being influenced by something which is not in accordance with the Will of Hashem.

The Gemara in Tractate Avodah Zarah states that there is a Negative Commandment "Lo seichaneim" which it explains to mean "Do not speak graciously about a non-Jew (for the sake of admiration)". The Rambam explains that the reason why one is not permitted to esteem a non-Jew for the sake of admiration is because a human being is made up of many facets, which range from his abilities, values and beliefs. Although he may be the "best doctor" or the most "brilliant lawyer" he also possesses an ethical, moral and belief system. Therefore if one esteems the non-Jew for the sake of admiration, he becomes susceptible to the subtle influences of that person.

The only way we can prevent ourselves from being negatively influenced and affected by things that are contrary to Hashem's Will is to consciously have a disdain for anything that is contrary to the Will of Hashem. At the end of the Book of Devorim, Moshe refers to the idols of the nations as "their dung and their putrid rodents." Rashi in his commentary cites the Midrash which explains that the idolatry is as detestable and despicable as "dung and putrid rodents". The Torah nevertheless follows by saying, "if you were affected by this idolatrous exposure." The question is if idolatry is perceived as "dung and putrid rodents" how could one be affected by it? The answer is - if one did not in truth experience the revolution for idolatry as if it were "dung and putrid rodents" then there is a possibility that one can be affected by it.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline briann

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2012, 03:22:03 PM »
A lot of leftist or moderate leftist Jews would always point to Egypt as a shining example of tolerance towards Israel.... at least that was their perception under Mubarak.   I hope these Jews are grinding their teeth after the 'Arab-Nazi Spring'

Offline muman613

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2012, 03:25:11 PM »
A lot of leftist or moderate leftist Jews would always point to Egypt as a shining example of tolerance towards Israel.... at least that was their perception under Mubarak.   I hope these Jews are grinding their teeth after the 'Arab-Nazi Spring'

There is no question that todays Egypt is going on a path which will certainly cross paths with Israel soon. Thus they are still an enemy of the Jewish people to this day. Mubarak was only a finger in the dam of the destruction of the Egyptian state.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Debbie Shafer

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Re: The Torah View On Egypt
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2012, 05:02:05 PM »
Very Good discussion here about Egypt.  The Middle East is going to be front and center, and of Course Israel in the days to come.