Author Topic: Peace - Salaam - Shalom  (Read 25512 times)

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newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #175 on: July 11, 2007, 03:07:20 AM »
Jazak'Allah I did not know exactly what you belived.
I actually do have another question, Do you belive in the Angels? Do you belive in the Jinn? Do you belive in the day of Judgement?
It might sound like I'm trying to help you make Shahada but I'm not. I've never actually asked a Jew before. I'm not interested in converting mind you, but just curious.
Peace

This comment wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer it if you don't mind Zvulun.

I believe that Angels are G-d's perfect messengers.

I don't believe in demons.

Of course there will be a day of judgement.

And when that day comes....you muslims are for it!

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #176 on: July 11, 2007, 03:12:03 AM »
Jazak'Allah I did not know exactly what you belived.
I actually do have another question, Do you belive in the Angels? Do you belive in the Jinn? Do you belive in the day of Judgement?
It might sound like I'm trying to help you make Shahada but I'm not. I've never actually asked a Jew before. I'm not interested in converting mind you, but just curious.
Peace

You say: “Jazak'Allah I did not know exactly what you belived.”

I knew that.

If I was you, Abdullah, before believing into any religion claiming that it is better version of the original religion, I would first look into the original one in order to understand all other ones claiming being based on the original faith.

Here, read it: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/jpstoc.html

I do believe in Angels.

I don’t believe in the Jinn, a spirit from pre-Islamic Arab mythology.

I believe in the “day” (time) of judgment.

Regarding Shahadah, I said earlier: there is One G-d, and Muhammad is not His Messenger.

I don’t have anything against him personally, but if he was a real prophet, why not. But he was not.

Again, read the Torah http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/jpstoc.html

Don’t forget, this is the original word from One G-d.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 03:17:31 AM by Zvulun ben Moshe »
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

Offline Abdullah

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #177 on: July 11, 2007, 03:19:24 AM »
Jazak'Allah, Do you belive in Angels in the Christian sense, can they Disobey God? I diden't ask if you belived in demons but Jinn, judgeing by you answer I see you don't.
Do Jews belive in al-Jenna(heaven, paradise) and Hell?
Is there anything in your books that says there can't be anymore prophets?
I have read that for you to consider a gentil to be "righeous" he cannot be an Idol worshipper, If this is true what do you call catholics?
Why do you deny Jesus('Isa)peace be upon him as a prophet and messanger of God?

I'm asking all this so I can be sure of what I know, I would like to hear it from a Jew.
Also Jazak'Allah for answering my previous questions.
Peace
Allahu Akbar!!!- God is the Greatest

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #178 on: July 11, 2007, 03:33:20 AM »
I will answer only one:

You say: “Is there anything in your books that says there can't be anymore prophets?”

My books did not say that. But my books did not say that any of the forthcoming prophets will be a rapist and a pedophile who will accuse of the same books being corrupt either.

This is called desecration, and not prophesy.

For all other questions, spend a day reading Torah.

Peace. Patience. Flexibility. Wisdom.
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #179 on: July 11, 2007, 03:34:07 AM »
While you are waiting for a Jew , abdulla.....here is a means for gentiles to practice Jusaism without becoming Jews and coping with 613 laws:


http://www.noachidechassid.com/news.php


Offline Abdullah

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #180 on: July 11, 2007, 04:25:59 AM »
again Jazak'Allah(even to newman)
I still don't understand your logic completly

1) Do you belive God is fair? If you do than how, according to your beliefs God kind of screwed over people like the Native Americans. They were fire-worshipers but you say he sent them no prophets?
It would be like if a parent punished a child for doing something he was never told not to do.
Allahu Akbar!!!- God is the Greatest

Offline Muck DeFuslims

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #181 on: July 11, 2007, 04:31:10 AM »
Zvulun ben Moshe, you're doing a fabulous job of answering this mooozie beast's questions.

Your answers are concise and straightfoward enough that even this brainwashed Mohamheadan simpleton might comprehend them.

I just take issue with one comment you made regarding PedoMo.

You said: "I don’t have anything against him personally..."

Of course you couldn't have known the pedophile, mass murderer, rapist, terrorist, thief personally, but please don't say you don't have anything against him.

All righteous people should DESPISE Mohammed for the crimes against humanity that he personally committed, as well as for the crimes against humanity his followers are still perpetrating in his name today.

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!

newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #182 on: July 11, 2007, 04:38:59 AM »
again Jazak'Allah(even to newman)
I still don't understand your logic completly

1) Do you belive G-d is fair? If you do than how, according to your beliefs G-d kind of screwed over people like the Native Americans. They were fire-worshipers but you say he sent them no prophets?
It would be like if a parent punished a child for doing something he was never told not to do.

If you would read Jewish or noachide sites with an open mind you will discover that G_d sent the Jews to be a light unto the world and a nation of priests for everyone else. Unfortunately everyone insisted on trying to kill them and replacing their religion with a fake one of their own making. The christians have stopped doing that (thank G_d), but now you muslims are  killing them. The price muslims will pay for this will be horrific.

Take the Jew's advice, Abdulla. Study the original word of G_d before you study the false replacement made up by an arab warlord. It's your soul at stake...not mine. I don't care either way. I'm not a Jew and it's not my job to teach the pagans.

Offline Mishmaat

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #183 on: July 11, 2007, 11:12:41 AM »
Scripture concerning the "prophet" Muhammad, yimach shemo.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22:

"But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.' And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him."

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #184 on: July 11, 2007, 11:25:16 AM »
Zvulun ben Moshe, you're doing a fabulous job of answering this mooozie beast's questions.

Your answers are concise and straightfoward enough that even this brainwashed Mohamheadan simpleton might comprehend them.

I just take issue with one comment you made regarding PedoMo.

You said: "I don’t have anything against him personally..."

Of course you couldn't have known the pedophile, mass murderer, rapist, terrorist, thief personally, but please don't say you don't have anything against him.

All righteous people should DESPISE Mohammed for the crimes against humanity that he personally committed, as well as for the crimes against humanity his followers are still perpetrating in his name today.

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!

Muck,

I understand what you are saying, but…

Mohammed first claimed to be G-d’s messenger and only later he became all of that that you fairly listed above.

I meant I don’t have anything against him personally at the moment he claimed to be a prophet. At that time he was a camel shepherd, nothing more. I use this technique to show that I am being objective and fair in hearing him out, and not just dismissing him for no reason.

That is, I reject his claim of being a prophet not because he was a rapist, but because he was not a prophet.

But for the crimes he did, he should have been stoned to death.

I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #185 on: July 11, 2007, 11:29:18 AM »
Zvulun ben Moshe, you're doing a fabulous job of answering this mooozie beast's questions.

Your answers are concise and straightfoward enough that even this brainwashed Mohamheadan simpleton might comprehend them.

I just take issue with one comment you made regarding PedoMo.

You said: "I don’t have anything against him personally..."

Of course you couldn't have known the pedophile, mass murderer, rapist, terrorist, thief personally, but please don't say you don't have anything against him.

All righteous people should DESPISE Mohammed for the crimes against humanity that he personally committed, as well as for the crimes against humanity his followers are still perpetrating in his name today.

DEATH TO ISLAM !!!

Muck,

I understand what you are saying, but…

Mohammed first claimed to be G-d’s messenger and only later he became all of that that you fairly listed above.

I meant I don’t have anything against him personally at the moment he claimed to be a prophet. At that time he was a camel shepherd, nothing more. I use this technique to show that I am being objective and fair in hearing him out, and not just dismissing him for no reason.

That is, I reject his claim of being a prophet not because he was a rapist, but because he was not a prophet.

But for the crimes he did, he should have been stoned to death.



Zvulun, you did a good job with the muzzie kid. We'll keep our eye on him....I explained how it all works on JTF. His attitude may be different next time. I'd never bet my life on a muzzie changing camps, though.

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #186 on: July 11, 2007, 11:34:34 AM »
Thank you, guys. G-d bless you all!
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #187 on: July 11, 2007, 11:37:43 AM »
Thank you, guys. G-d bless you all!
If you make him a noachide chasid you've done your light unto the nations duty. Also fulfilled prophesy......gentiles grabbing a corner of your garment and all that. :)

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #188 on: July 11, 2007, 12:15:57 PM »
again Jazak'Allah(even to newman)
I still don't understand your logic completly

1) Do you belive G-d is fair? If you do than how, according to your beliefs G-d kind of screwed over people like the Native Americans. They were fire-worshipers but you say he sent them no prophets?
It would be like if a parent punished a child for doing something he was never told not to do.

G-d is fair, but fair doesn’t equal nice. Fair is nice or harsh, whichever you deserve.

G-d punished 6 million Jews during World War II. Now He is not only balancing, but He is also non-discriminating Judge.

Regarding your “It would be like if a parent punished a child for doing something he was never told not to do.”

That is not yet a reason to invent a new religion. What Mohammed should have done in order to worship One G-d, is to convert into Judaism and convince others to do that, and not force them.

Look at Khazars. They accepted Judaism without an official conversion, they simply started believing and following the laws of G-d.

I am not for proselytizing, but I am against isolationism.

If you want to believe in One G-d, just believe in Him. If you want to become more familiar with the history and philosophy, then open the Torah.
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #189 on: July 11, 2007, 12:19:29 PM »
Thank you, guys. G-d bless you all!
If you make him a noachide chasid you've done your light unto the nations duty. Also fulfilled prophesy......gentiles grabbing a corner of your garment and all that. :)

Newman, most Muslims already do many things that Mohammed stole from Judaism.

I honestly believe that Muslims will be more comfortable embracing the religion of  One G-d in its original form.
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #190 on: July 11, 2007, 12:22:22 PM »
Thank you, guys. G-d bless you all!
If you make him a noachide chasid you've done your light unto the nations duty. Also fulfilled prophesy......gentiles grabbing a corner of your garment and all that. :)

Newman, most Muslims already do many things that Mohammed stole from Judaism.

I honestly believe that Muslims will be more comfortable embracing the religion of  One G-d in its original form.

The Sheva Mitzvot is the original form for gentiles isn't it? That what Jews are here to teach us isn't it?

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #191 on: July 11, 2007, 12:57:13 PM »
Yes, but (there is one but)….

The Seven Noahide Laws are the following:
• Prohibition of idolatry
• Prohibition of blasphemy
• Prohibition of murder
• Prohibition of theft
• Prohibition of illicit relations
• Prohibition of eating live meat
• Prohibition of failing to establish courts of justice

Mohammed forced the forefathers of the present Muslims to follow these laws, except for two:

1) “Don’t murder” law. Jihad clearly is in violation of this law.
2) “Don’t blaspheme” law. Claiming that G-d said that Jews corrupted the Torah (G-d forbid) is a serious violation of this law.

But, at the same time, Muslims do slightly more than the remaining laws:

1) They circumcise
2) They have dietary laws, called halal, which prohibits pork etc.
3) maybe some more

As you see, if Abdullah says I am against Jihad and I don’t believe in Mohammed, he will become more than Noahide.

Knowing Muslims, I can say that they need more laws to become and stay righteous.
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #192 on: July 11, 2007, 01:03:55 PM »
What's in between a noachide chassid and a Jew apart from a Ger Toshav ? Ger Toshavs only have the seven laws too, they just make a formal pledge before a beit din. If muslims take on more than the seven and less than 613 , what would they be?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 01:16:27 PM by newman »

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #193 on: July 11, 2007, 01:16:43 PM »
Newman, Ger Toshavs are supposed to do the following:

1) Reject idolatry
2) Follow the 7 Noachide laws
3) Follow all the 613 mitzvot, except for the prohibition of neveilos.

Muslims, if rejected Islam, would follow most of Ger Toshav laws.
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #194 on: July 11, 2007, 01:20:06 PM »
Newman, Ger Toshavs are supposed to do the following:

1) Reject idolatry
2) Follow the 7 Noachide laws
3) Follow all the 613 mitzvot, except for the prohibition of neveilos.

Muslims, if rejected Islam, would follow most of Ger Toshav laws.


Even recieving an Aliyah at synagogue and wearing a prayer shawl? I thought those along with peyot etc were for Jews only.

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #195 on: July 11, 2007, 01:27:18 PM »
Newman, Ger Toshavs are supposed to do the following:

1) Reject idolatry
2) Follow the 7 Noachide laws
3) Follow all the 613 mitzvot, except for the prohibition of neveilos.

Muslims, if rejected Islam, would follow most of Ger Toshav laws.


Even recieving an Aliyah at synagogue and wearing a prayer shawl? I thought those along with peyot etc were for Jews only.

Officially Ger Toshav is not a Jew, but he can step forward and say I want to become one. For someone who follows most of the laws, which many Jews (reform for example) don't follow, becoming a Jew is a matter of declaration.
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #196 on: July 11, 2007, 01:45:37 PM »
Newman, Ger Toshavs are supposed to do the following:

1) Reject idolatry
2) Follow the 7 Noachide laws
3) Follow all the 613 mitzvot, except for the prohibition of neveilos.

Muslims, if rejected Islam, would follow most of Ger Toshav laws.


Even recieving an Aliyah at synagogue and wearing a prayer shawl? I thought those along with peyot etc were for Jews only.

Officially Ger Toshav is not a Jew, but he can step forward and say I want to become one. For someone who follows most of the laws, which many Jews (reform for example) don't follow, becoming a Jew is a matter of declaration.

Thakyou Zvulun.

I'm Lucky there are still learned men. We gentiles would be in shtuk otherwise.

Offline Zvulun Ben Moshe

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #197 on: July 11, 2007, 01:50:42 PM »
Keep it up, brother!
I am Zvulun ben Moshe and I approve this message.

newman

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #198 on: July 11, 2007, 01:52:32 PM »
Keep it up, brother!
I try, Ben Yisroel, I try. ;)

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Peace - Salaam - Shalom
« Reply #199 on: July 11, 2007, 08:29:45 PM »
Theres nothing wrong with right-wing, but It is not a reliable source for news. Why don't you give the FULL speach if your so sure of it.

How would there be nothing wrong with it if you think it's not reliable? That doesn't even make sense.

I tell you what... why don't YOU give the full speech. I'd love to see this. Tell me... how am I wrong? How did I take that out of context and what is the REAL context of that hate speech?

Quote
You talk about the treaty of Hudaibiya. You claim it was violated by the Muslims when it was IN FACT violated by the Meccans. If you want to argue that then back it up.

And while you're at it, why don't you IN FACT prove it was the Meccans. You can't? I wonder why?

Muslims were authorized by another "revelation" to break treaties (particularly with the Jews) when there was an advantage in doing so (Check out 8:58).

Quote
I also don't get why your bringing up so much from the past- long before the speech I was talking about. Your being far to general by saying that since a Muslim got his picture with Hittler were all nazis.

#1) You said the muslims didn't want to exterminate the Jews. I gave some pretty solid examples.

#2) "a Muslim"... ummm... you mean the Mufti? I didn't think he was just some random muslim guy. Nice try. This random "Muslim" is capable of issuing fataawa under islamic law. This title of Grand Mufti refers to the highest official of islamic religious law. Don't tell me that his hanging out with hitler was nothing but a random thing by just some random "Muslim". No, he met with adolf hitler, heinrich himmler, joachim von ribbentrop and other nazi leaders because he was trying to extend the nazi's program to the arab world... and he was pretty vocal about it. He didn't hide his intention. He sent hitler 15 drafts of declarations in the early 1940s.

Quote
Why don't you try to answer the questions I asked you in the Last post?
You keep making wild allegations, not acknoleging when I call you out to prove them.
You diden't really ask any question in your last post or answer any.

Jeez... you can't spell worth anything. You read books or comics?

I tell you what... we'll take turns. You answer my question above about the full speech or the treaty of Hudaibiya (your choice) and I'll answer one of your questions. I want you to really answer it... not just throw out your opinion. I want some facts like I provided above.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim