2 Religious Israeli girls win Muay thai world chapionships

[muman613]

I am not 'against' these women. Women should be able to learn and compete in these sports. My issue is that if these women are not dressed correctly, men should avoid the event.

[Super Mentalita]

Give me a break....

[muman613]

Give me a break....

One Break Coming up!

You may not agree with what I say, but this is the Jewish law. If you reject it you reject the Torah of Moses. If you are interested I can show you just how bad the Talmud thinks looking at the bare flesh of women is for a righteous man...

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

One Break Coming up!

You may not agree with what I say, but this is the Jewish law. If you reject it you reject the Torah of Moses. If you are interested I can show you just how bad the Talmud thinks looking at the bare flesh of women is for a righteous man...

 Yea it brings extreme examples to convey that even in those situations a man should think inappropriately of women, NOT that women should then cover their fingers and some Jerka women or the "bukra babes" do cover their faces cover their fingers etc. No source in Halacha and just doing what they feel like or think would be a good fashion.

[muman613]

Here is a list of issues discussed in the Oral Tradition (Talmud) concerning Modesty and Sexual matters...


http://www.webshas.org/ishus/tznius.htm

Modesty in Gender Mixing and Sexual Matters
Having a divider between groups of men and women: Succah 51b-52a
Preventing too much intergender socialization, to prevent adultery: Eruvin 53b; Nedarim 20a
Prohibitions against observing or staring at women or certain sections of their body: Nedarim 20a
For males to Sleep "Perakdan" [generally assumed to mean Supine]: Berachot 13b
For males to avoid looking below their belt: Shabbat 118b
Flogging for a groom who sleeps/stays in his in-laws' house: Kiddushin 12b
Keeping the area below the belt covered, when changing clothing: Shabbat 118b
How much skin exposure is considered "ervah": Berachot 24a
Differentiating between "ervah" of a Jew and of a non-Jew, or not: Berachot 25b
A man ought not gaze at a woman's small finger: Berachot 24a
A man exchanging money with a woman in such a way that he will end up gazing closely at her hand: Eruvin 18b
Whether the buttocks are considered "ervah": Berachot 24a
Whether public hair is considered "ervah": Berachot 24a
Whether the 'shok' part of the leg is considered "ervah": Berachot 24a
Having a yeshiva student stay in the home of a female hostess: Bava Metzia 71a
At what age children should not be seen by their parents unclothed: Berachot 24a
Having a widow keep a dog: Bava Metzia 71a [and see Tosafot "Lo"]
Men sitting near the mikvah as women enter to immerse: Berachot 20a
Privacy about knowing which night a woman is immersing: Berachot 24a
Looking at a Bride during her first week of marriage: Ketuvot 17a
For males to walk behind females: Eruvin 18b
Better for a man to walk behind a lion than behind a woman; better behind a woman than behind an idol: Eruvin 18b
A man who walks behind a (Rashi - married) woman in crossing a body of water loses his share in the next world: Eruvin 18b
Bathing brothers, father and son, father-in-law and son-in-law, step-father and step-son, brothers-in-law, Rebbe and student, together: Pesachim 51a
Sitting on the bed of a non-Jewish woman: Berachot 8b; Pesachim 112b
Modesty of a wife in front of her husband: Shabbat 140b
Modesty of husband and wife in requesting sexual relations: Eruvin 100b
Standing unclothed before a light: Pesachim 112b
Keeping a separation between the heart and the lower genitalia: Berachot 24b-25a
A Torah Scholar ought to lie if asked about his sexual habits: Bava Metzia 23b
Giving clothing to one's host to launder: Shabbat 140b
Not watching women come up from the laundry: Makkot 24a
For a woman to own a male eved ivri or eved kenaani: Bava Metzia 71a
One should not sleep in the same room as a husband and wife, even if the wife is menstruant: Eruvin 63b
Relating the laws of modest dress to the sin in the Garden of Eden: Eruvin 100b
What Rav Ada bar Ahavah did when he thought he saw a Jewish woman wearing an immodest garment in public: Berachot 20a

[muman613]

Yea it brings extreme examples to convey that even in those situations a man should think inappropriately of women, NOT that women should then cover their fingers and some Jerka women or the "bukra babes" do cover their faces cover their fingers etc. No source in Halacha and just doing what they feel like or think would be a good fashion.

Yes, you repeated exactly what I am saying bringing nothing new. I said there is no problem with women competing in these sports. There is a problem of men who are watching these immodestly dressed women.

[angryChineseKahanist]

mein eyes! mein eyes!
I'm not "turned on" or "excited" by those images at all.
I don't see a problem if the filthy goy dogs watch other filthy goy dogs wrestle.

 

[nessuno]

They are probably very pretty when not dressed up for sport.

That's right! They should dress modestly like this:




Or like this:

Well...their hands and feet are exposed.  So that is not modest enough. Apparently.
While I understand following religious beliefs...it is almost impossible for men in today's world not to see scantily clad women or come into visual contact with a woman's hands.  Those kinds of things.
Isn't the point of the oral tradition (Talmud) that...men should have some self control.  In today's world it seems that you would have to live in a box to follow it strictly.  To have women comply with complete modesty seems impossible.  Most women will not cover themselves entirely and that seems to reflect a world none of us want to live in.

[Super Mentalita]

Yes, you repeated exactly what I am saying bringing nothing new. I said there is no problem with women competing in these sports. There is a problem of men who are watching these immodestly dressed women.

So what is the problem excactley? Why are religious Jews and Muslims so afraid of women without headscarfs? What is wrong with seing a leg ore an arm?

[Jacob_Levi]

So what is the problem excactley? Why are religious Jews and Muslims so afraid of women without headscarfs? What is wrong with seing a leg ore an arm?

I notice your spelling and thought process are both destitute.

What other forums do you troll ?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

These are supposed to be religious women? You wouldn't think so from how they're dressed. Buy compared to many Secular Israeli women, that's actually pretty modest.

Dude, there is nothing wrong with how they are dressed. Are you a Muslim?

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I notice your spelling and thought process are both destitute.

What other forums do you troll ?

I thought he was a troll a long time ago, but he really has not done anything wrong. Someone else(?) said his spelling was normal for Europeans. But... There is another person who can't spell very well...

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Yea it brings extreme examples to convey that even in those situations a man should think inappropriately of women, NOT that women should then cover their fingers

I don't know if I'm understanding clearly...  For some reason I think you're saying... The Talmud Expresses this in a extreme manner, so that men will think of women appropriately, and not that women should hide in a cave...  ?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I don't know if I'm understanding clearly...  For some reason I think you're saying... The Talmud Expresses this in a extreme manner, so that men will think of women appropriately, and not that women should hide in a cave...  ?

 No no no. Their are examples brought and that a man is not allowed to think of a women he isn't allowed to think about (meaning not his wife) inappropriately stare etc. even to the point of her finger. Now that didn't mean that the Talmudh or Jewish law advocated or advocates a women covering her finger, it is just to show that even to that point a man shouldn't say well what is the big deal I will stare at her finger or her face or her etc. It is saying that even to the point of receiving pleasure for a finger of a women not allowed for you is not allowed. Also even listening to her voice if it brings you to bad thoughts. That being said it never then tells the women to cover her face etc. In fact that isn't even allowed because it takes away from her personality and being a person.
 Their are parameters of what is allowed and what is not allowed. Also to do with society at large as well.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

They are probably very pretty when not dressed up for sport.Well...their hands and feet are exposed.  So that is not modest enough. Apparently.
While I understand following religious beliefs...it is almost impossible for men in today's world not to see scantily clad women or come into visual contact with a woman's hands.  Those kinds of things.
Isn't the point of the oral tradition (Talmud) that...men should have some self control.  In today's world it seems that you would have to live in a box to follow it strictly.  To have women comply with complete modesty seems impossible.  Most women will not cover themselves entirely and that seems to reflect a world none of us want to live in.

No one said Jewish women should cover their hands. Also, religious women are permitted to show their hair. The prohibition is only for married women. It also doesn't apply for Non-Jewish women so there is no problem seeing the hair of a married Non-Jewish woman. Also, women are not permitted to cover their faces. So burkas are against Halacha. Religious women dress modestly but also fashionable. Not like the ugly Muslim women.

[nessuno]

No one said Jewish women should cover their hands. Also, religious women are permitted to show their hair. The prohibition is only for married women. It also doesn't apply for Non-Jewish women so there is no problem seeing the hair of a married Non-Jewish woman. Also, women are not permitted to cover their faces. So burkas are against Halacha. Religious women dress modestly but also fashionable. Not like the ugly Muslim women.  

I know that.  I live in the real world.  But when reading this thread, one might not think that is the case.  Especially because, women wearing gym clothes, and especially non feminine and not revealing gym clothes, are being criticized. 

[Super Mentalita]

I notice your spelling and thought process are both destitute.

What other forums do you troll ?

I'am Dutch myself, so I realy try my best to type correct English. Me a troll? Because I wonderding why Jews and Muslims have so many problems with a uncoverd leg or uncoverd hair of a women?

[Super Mentalita]

Dude, there is nothing wrong with how they are dressed. Are you a Muslim?

That's what I'am saying!

[Yerusha]

Good to see a Jewess beat a Black for once!

[Every Jew AK47]

Modesty isn't the issue for me. The issue is that Arabs are having gazillion more kids than Jewish women.  Jewish women are too busy becoming career women , soldiers or fighters and not enough time being wives and mothers.

Women have forgot the roles that Hashem has given to them and now are causing the downfall of our society.  Soon, our entire world will be composed of Muslims and Catholics, as these are the only two groups of people who actually have women who devote their lives to being mothers.

Obviously, being a martial artist puts a woman's hymen at grave risk too.  If we don't remember correctly, a broken hymen is also grounds for divorce and more severe punishments.   

Maybe, people will think I am a sexist, misogynist pig, but I am just old-fashioned and traditional guy.  Let the men do the fightin' and the women do the cryin'.  That almost sounds biblical .   In our modern society, so many men are emasculated, homosexual, metrosexual she-males who don't even want to be men anymore, because society tells them it's wrong.  On the other hand, women are becoming more masculine.

I don't believe women should be dressed in burqa and niqabs.  However, I think being dressed in tight-fitting clothing showing off their legs, butt curvature and boobs, which is the de-facto norm of Western society, including non-Chassidic Israeli society is wrong and against Tzniut.

Tzniut and Martial Arts however are two different subjects. 

We have no shortage of women fighters, but we don't have many women these days who want to be good wives and mothers.  The fact that our numbers are dwindling and the White Race faces a population crisis never seen in history attests to this problem.  Why do you think the Russian government is giving monetary incentives for people to have children?   

And, we are always so uptight and worrying about Arabs taking over Israel.  Yet, the Arabs don't need to win any fight against us.. All they have to do is outbreed us and allow feminism to spread, where women rather pursue lives as martial-art fighters or overworked professionals and forsake the most precious duty of every woman, which is motherhood.

[Yerusha]

Fine examples of the Haredi "Burqa" sect in Bet Shemsh!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

They are probably very pretty when not dressed up for sport.Well...their hands and feet are exposed.  So that is not modest enough. Apparently.
While I understand following religious beliefs...it is almost impossible for men in today's world not to see scantily clad women or come into visual contact with a woman's hands.  Those kinds of things.

Hands are not forbidden to be seen.

Isn't the point of the oral tradition (Talmud) that...men should have some self control.

Yes.Jewish women are required to cover exposed skin down to the elbow, thighs down to the knees (at least) and not wear lowcut shirts that reveal the chest.   There are many, many Jewish women who follow this despite what some insane men would have us think that no one today is modest enough.  And some insane women don burkas.

[mord]

Fine examples of the Haredi "Burqa" sect in Bet Shemsh!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect

   The girl is dressed in a modest manner whats the problem

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Modesty isn't the issue for me. The issue is that Arabs are having gazillion more kids than Jewish women.  Jewish women are too busy becoming career women , soldiers or fighters and not enough time being wives and mothers.

Women have forgot the roles that Hashem has given to them and now are causing the downfall of our society.  Soon, our entire world will be composed of Muslims and Catholics, as these are the only two groups of people who actually have women who devote their lives to being mothers.

Obviously, being a martial artist puts a woman's hymen at grave risk too.  If we don't remember correctly, a broken hymen is also grounds for divorce and more severe punishments.   

Maybe, people will think I am a sexist, misogynist pig, but I am just old-fashioned and traditional guy.  Let the men do the fightin' and the women do the cryin'.  That almost sounds biblical .   In our modern society, so many men are emasculated, homosexual, metrosexual she-males who don't even want to be men anymore, because society tells them it's wrong.  On the other hand, women are becoming more masculine.

I don't believe women should be dressed in burqa and niqabs.  However, I think being dressed in tight-fitting clothing showing off their legs, butt curvature and boobs, which is the de-facto norm of Western society, including non-Chassidic Israeli society is wrong and against Tzniut.

Tzniut and Martial Arts however are two different subjects. 

We have no shortage of women fighters, but we don't have many women these days who want to be good wives and mothers.  The fact that our numbers are dwindling and the White Race faces a population crisis never seen in history attests to this problem.  Why do you think the Russian government is giving monetary incentives for people to have children?   

And, we are always so uptight and worrying about Arabs taking over Israel.  Yet, the Arabs don't need to win any fight against us.. All they have to do is outbreed us and allow feminism to spread, where women rather pursue lives as martial-art fighters or overworked professionals and forsake the most precious duty of every woman, which is motherhood.

The communities these girls are from have the highest Jewish birth rates in Israel.  Rivals that of the Arabs.  I hope you and all the men in this thread (myself included) find your zivug soon and in its proper time.

[nessuno]

Hands are not forbidden to be seen.
Yes.Jewish women are required to cover exposed skin down to the elbow, thighs down to the knees (at least) and not wear lowcut shirts that reveal the chest.  There are many, many Jewish women who follow this despite what some insane men would have us think that no one today is modest enough.  And some insane women don burkas.

Thanks for your response.  I do realize that hands are not forbidden to be seen.  I would love if my daughter, though not Jewish, would adhere to the style of dress you described.  That is when she can fully choose her own clothing.  I would certainly allow my daughter to participate in gym classed dresse  in a t-shirt and shorts.  Of course, in school she will always wear short sleeves and not a tank.  The point I was trying to make, you made quite clearly in your post.