Author Topic: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy  (Read 974 times)

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Offline muman613

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'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« on: July 30, 2013, 03:41:48 PM »
I am fully against having 'secret' meetings where the future of Israel is decided by crooked so-called leaders.

Any land agreement must be OK with the Israeli population and with the elected officials who represent them. Secret deals will always be against the best interests of the Jewish people. I do not trust Bibi Netanyahu as far as I could throw him... Im sure nobody here trusts that lying piece of garbage any more...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/170428
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2013, 03:43:11 PM »
When Kerry says 'Everything is on the table' he means that he can get Israel to do anything the arabs want including giving up our biblical homeland in Judea and Samaria, Jerusalem, and ensuring a building freeze on Jewish building to appease Abbas....

I'd like to read a single 'concession' which Kerry has gotten from the arabs who are supposed to be 'negotiating' and not 'demanding'...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline drlmg

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2013, 04:44:11 PM »
The Obama administration's definition of "transparency" is "behind closed doors and in secrecy".

How else can they do one thing then claim they did/said something else? Well, on second thought they openly do it all the time so beats me.

Obama administration is big on solving problems by re-defining the issue which is problematic. eg. poverty rate is skyrocketing so in order to remedy the problem they will re-define poverty.

Unemployment is outrageously high so they re-define the definition of unemployed.... if you work one hour out of the month, you are employed. In addition they change the way the numbers are calculated. As if that weren't enough, if 50,000 jobs are lost and there are 100 new ones any given month then Obama has "created" 100 jobs with no mention of the 50,000 lost.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2013, 10:50:47 PM »
They should not be held at all.

The Israeli populace doesn't have the right to vote and decide to give away the land of Israel to our enemies.   That is completely wrong even if 99% of the people say to do it.   Bibi has no right and the people have no right.

Offline muman613

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2013, 11:26:45 PM »
They should not be held at all.

The Israeli populace doesn't have the right to vote and decide to give away the land of Israel to our enemies.   That is completely wrong even if 99% of the people say to do it.   Bibi has no right and the people have no right.

I agree... But holding them in secret is an even bigger insult to the Jewish people, IMO...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline mord

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2013, 06:31:36 AM »
In case you need to know about Israel hater Martin Indyk              http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/a_civil_reply_to_martin_indyk_on_nif_and_political_warfare   


The article has links so click on above link for the full story
 

A Civil Reply to Martin Indyk on NIF and Political Warfare
Gerald M. Steinberg February 24, 2010

Response to Martin Indyk: The Truth About the New Israel Fund, The Australian Jewish Democratic Society, February 23, 2010

Dear Martin,

While I have known you for many years, and we often disagree, I did not expect you to join the campaign of personal attacks and hysteria launched in response to detailed analysis and legitimate concerns regarding the role of the New Israel Fund, on whose board you currently sit. I am also surprised by the many false claims you made under the banner of “The Truth about the New Israel Fund”.  Rather than engaging in more mud-slinging, I am drawing your attention to some of the basic errors of commission and omission in your highly emotional defense of NIF. For additional documentation, see NGO Monitor.

Indyk: NIF plays a unique role as the driving force behind positive social change in Israel and the defense of the human rights for all its citizens.  And it does so not just for Israeli Arabs but for every disadvantaged sector of Israeli society...

While NIF funds disadvantaged sectors in Israel, NIF also diverts approximately 20 percent of donor money to some 20 organizations that are primarily involved in demonization campaigns, as specified below. These NIF recipients publish attacks on Israel in English for foreign audiences; lobby the US, UK and other governments on Goldstone and related issues; actively participate in UN Human Rights Council attacks on Israel, etc.

Indyk: NIF does not support or fund divestment, boycott or sanction activities against the State of Israel.

Some of the examples of NIF recipients engaging in BDS-related campaigns:

A)    NIF grantee Coalition of Women for Peace ($285,509 in 2006-8) runs the “Who Profits?” divestment project, tracking corporations that “are directly involved in the occupation.” “Who Profits?” and therefore NIF had a major role in divestment in Norway and is pressing a similar project in the UK.
B)    NIF grantees Mossawa ($517,642 in 2006-8), Machsom Watch, and Coalition of Women for Peace signed a May 2009 letter to the Norwegian Government Pension Fund (NGPF), calling “upon the Norwegian people to join us in our efforts and to stop investing in the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory.” The letter accused Israeli and international corporations of “provid[ing] specifically designed equipment for the surveillance and repression of [the] Palestinian population through restrictions of movement and collective punishments.”
C)    Officials from Adalah and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel (PHR-I $503,537 in 2006-8) spoke at a conference held by the UN Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People (Geneva, July 22-24). The focus of this conference was to formulate strategies for imposing boycotts and sanctions on Israel, as well as promoting “lawfare”.

Indyk: NIF opposes...ultra-nationalism in all its manifestations, both within Israel and among the nations and organizations that relate to Israel.

A)    Adalah’s ($1,045,292 in 2006-8) 2007 proposed constitution for Israel called for replacing the Jewish foundation with a “democratic, bilingual and multicultural” framework. This “Democratic Constitution” – based on the “a one-state solution” – would permit Jewish immigration only for “humanitarian reasons.” In other words, the Jewish state would cease to exist.
B)    Mossawa’s November 2006 position paper proposing a constitution for Israel, called for the eradication of the Israeli flag and national anthem, the right of the Arab minority to have a veto over matters of national import, and the immediate implementation of the Palestinian “Right of Return.”
C)    Mada al-Carmel ($450,000 in 2006-8) helped compose and publish the “Haifa Declaration,” a document that calls for a “change in the definition of the State of Israel from a Jewish state” and accuses Israel of “exploiting” the Holocaust “at the expense of the Palestinian people.”

Indyk: Inevitably, some of them, especially in the Arab sector, will take positions that, as an individual, I strongly oppose, since they cannot be expected to buy into every aspect of the Zionist narrative.  But I will at the same time strongly defend their right to speak out as long as it is in responsible ways.

We all agree on free speech, which, as you know, is a pillar of Israeli democracy. But the issue here is large-scale NIF funding that artificially amplifies the highly destructive voices, whose goal is to silence the “Zionist narrative”, to use your jargon. Using NIF donor money, these organizations contribute to demonization in the UN and elsewhere.

Indyk (on Im Tirtzu’s claims): The assertion that “without NIF there would be no Goldstone Report,” is based on bogus statistics. In fact, Goldstone based only 14% of his report – not 92% as claimed – on reports of Israeli human rights organization. 

The debate on the percentage of the Goldstone report based on NIF-funded NGOs is a diversion. The focus should be on wider UN-based demonization, including:

A)    Following the publication of the Goldstone Report, Adalah joined the Palestinian NGOs Al Mezan, Al-Haq, and the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR) in a press release urging countries to “re-evaluate their relationship with Israel.”
B)    In 2009, a Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PCATI - $48,888 in 2006-8) official testified in Geneva before the UN’s Goldstone inquiry on the Gaza war, referring to Israel’s “unacceptable collective punishment” and to Palestinian “martyrs.”

Indyk: That’s why NIF welcomes the proposed Knesset investigation into foreign sources of funding for Israeli NGOs, as long as all groups are investigated, across the spectrum, including for example, Mr. Steinberg’s NGO Monitor...

In contrast to this claim, NIF and its associated NGOs boycotted and sought to delegitimize discussion at the Knesset conference on transparency in foreign government funding of political NGOs, rather than presenting their views and engaging in civil debate. Regarding another Knesset initiative on NGO funding, the NIF website boasted of defeating this “inquiry”. (For the record, NGO Monitor has fully complied with Israeli reporting requirements for non-profit organizations, and does not receive any government funding.)

With regards,

Gerald M. Steinberg
President, NGO Monitor
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2013, 07:29:45 AM »
Indyk opposes "ultra nationalism."   Oh, but the PLO isn't ultra nationalist, right?   Lying fraudulent evil pieces of garbage these negotiators are.  Invariably they seek personal advancement at the expense of humanity.  Especially Jewish humanity.

Offline Dan193

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2013, 10:33:00 AM »
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/?p=4748&cpage=1#comment-49255
Indyk: a Disastrous Choice for Mediator
July 26  2013

The US State Department has floated a trial balloon to test the idea of former US Ambassador to Israel, Martin Indyk, serving as mediator in the forthcoming peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. It is not surprising that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has signaled his approval. What is incomprehensible is that Prime Minister Netanyahu has done likewise.

Unfortunately the prospect of genuine progress in the negotiations is extraordinarily slim. There is no evidence that the Palestinian Authority will compromise on a single issue. In the unlikely event that the weak, corrupt President Abbas does make even a single concession, his Fatah supporters will immediately topple him.

Nonetheless, an “honest broker” is essential to the process. However, Martin Indyk is not that broker. His track record in presiding over previous peace negotiations indicates that if re-appointed, he will, in all probability, direct negotiations in a manner to ensure that Israel will be blamed for their failure.

Indyk has had an impressive political career. Educated in Australia, he moved to the US where he joined AIPAC and subsequently held executive positions at prestigious Washington, DC think-tanks (Executive Director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, and Director of Foreign Policy at the Brookings Institution). He also has assumed key political positions (Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs in the Clinton administration). After becoming a naturalized US citizen, President Clinton appointed him US Ambassador to Israel – the first foreign born and first Jew to hold the position. He served two terms, from April 1995 to September 1997 and from January 2000 to July 2001.

Indyk’s rise in the political arena has been ascribed to his talent of adjusting to the prevailing political climate of the Democratic leadership. When President Obama was elected, Indyk aligned himself with the new leader, and enthusiastically participated in Obama’s Israel-bashing and Netanyahu-snubbing. He was unsparing and, at times, vicious in his criticism of our Prime Minister, and laid the bulk of the blame on Netanyahu for the breakdown in Israeli-Palestinian relations.

He has moved further and further to the left as his career unfolded. He served as International Chair of the New Israel Fund, an organization that has repeatedly been castigated for funding rabid anti-Zionist and anti-Israel NGOs, including several organizations that compiled distorted and false information for the notorious Goldstone Report accusing the IDF of engaging in war crimes.

Aside from occasional lip service to their failings, Indyk became an aggressive apologist for the Palestinians and at one stage even identified himself with those defending Arafat’s rebuff of Prime Minister Ehud Barak’s extreme concessions at Camp David.

Indyk has made outrageous claims about Israel’s de-stabilizing effect on the Middle East, and the need for Israel’s to bend to the will of the United States, threatening, “If Israel is a superpower and does not need $3 billion in military assistance and protection, and [does not require] the efforts of the US to isolate and pressure Iran, then go ahead and do what you like. If you need the US, then you need to take American interests into account… Israel has to adjust its policy to the interest of the United States or there will be serious consequences.”

He has also made the obscene charge that it was Israeli intransigence that contributed to US military casualties in Afghanistan, accusing Israel of endangering “a vital security interest of the United States.” The “intransigence” he was alluding to was the settlement construction then taking place in Jewish neighborhoods in East Jerusalem.

He stooped even lower when he stated that Prime Minister Netanyahu should take into account that President Obama was obliged to write 30-40 condolence letters a week. To climax his antagonistic attitude towards Israel, in 2010 Indyk publicly urged Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israeli government to cede the Golan Heights to Syria.

Indyk frequently invokes the memory of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, who he refers to as “Israel’s greatest strategic thinker.” But Rabin would have undoubtedly rejected an American spokesman or diplomat with the chutzpah to make the demands on Israel as made by Indyk. He would have dismissed him for his lack of respect for Israel’s sovereignty and his treatment of it as a vassal state. Certainly, Rabin would never have endorsed Indyk’s calls to divide Jerusalem and to make unilateral territorial concessions.

Most of us continue to dream of peace. However, we recognize that with the current chaos and violence in the region, the likelihood of moving forward with a peace “partner” who sanctifies murder and engages in vicious incitement is almost a mirage. Yet to demonstrate our commitment to leave no stone unturned in our desire for peace, we have succumbed to pressure and unfortunately compromised the rights of terror victims and their families, by releasing hundreds of mass murderers as a “goodwill gesture” to sit at the negotiating table.

Yet the extraordinary lengths to which we will go for the sake of peace will not move us forward if the US mediator is an American Jew, whose recent track record is indistinguishable from that of J Street in seeking to pressure Israel to make unilateral concessions. That such a politically jaundiced Jew is being proposed for this role is cause for grave concern.

Prime Minister Netanyahu would be well advised to bite the bullet now and resist pressure to accept Indyk as mediator. Otherwise, we will once again be accused of intransigency and inflexibility, if not the cause of an upsurge in violence that President Abbas has already threatened should his demands go unmet.

The writer may be contacted at [email protected]

Offline Dan193

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2013, 10:46:23 AM »
Even during Arafats terror war against Israeli civilians, Indyk did everything to protect this mass murderer Arafat.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/martin-indyk-the-objective-mediator/
MARTIN INDYK: THE “OBJECTIVE MEDIATOR”
David Bedein,
July 23, 2013,

Martin Indyk, who served two stints as US ambassador to Israel, was reported to be the choice of Secretary of State Kerry to serve as the mediator between Israel and the PLO in negotiations that may soon commence in Washington.

Indyk’s record as an objective mediator should be examined. 

Indyk is generally looked upon as the man who planned the Oslo process that gave Yassir Arafat and the PLO armed control over most of the Palestinian Arab population.

In 1994, journalist Haim Shibi of the Yediot Aharonot newspaper reported that in 1987, Indyk had convinced more than 150 members of the U.S. foreign policy establishment that Israel should unilaterally withdraw from territories gained in 1967 Six Day War.

Indyk oversaw every step of the Oslo process with that precise policy in mind – Israel giving up land that is vital to her defense.

Indyk, during  his stint as  US ambassador to Israel. did not hesitate to misrepresent the intentions and policies of the PLO while doing so, obfuscating the fact that the PLO  never adhered to the basic commitment it made to cancel its covenant that calls for the eradication of the Jewish state.

In September 1995, with the signing of the second Olso interim agreement at the White House, the U.S. Congress mandated that the U.S. would only be able to provide funds to the Palestinian Authority and provide diplomatic status to Arafat if the PLO covenant was finally canceled.

The PLO never did so,  yet the foreign aid money kept rolling in to the Palestinian Authority.

On April 24, 1996, the PLO convened a special session of its Palestine National Council (PNC) to consider the subject of the PLO covenant cancellation.

Our news agency dispatched a Palestinian TV crew to cover that session, which turned out to be the only crew that filmed the event.

The film crew brought back a videotape that showed a lively discussion, the conclusion of which was to ratify Arafat’s suggestion that the PNC simply create a committee to “discuss” the subject.

At my own expense, I rushed the VHS copy to Ambassador Indyk for comment, but he did not respond to that request for comment.

Instead, he chose to ignore the decision of the PNC and, in moment of perjury. issued a falsified report to President Clinton and to the U.S. Congress that the PLO covenant had been canceled.

As a result of Indyk’s false report,  Arafat was provided with a red carpet greeting at the White House on May 1, 1996, and the PLO was only then allowed to open an office in Washington.

The next day, however, Hebrew University Professor Yehoshua Porat, a former leader in Peace Now who ran on slot 13 on the Meretz ticket in 1992,an expert in Palestinian studies and fluent in Arabic, convened a press conference in which he shared protocols of the PNC session and the videotape which  proved Arafat never canceled the PLO covenant.

But the damage was already done. Thanks to the obfuscations of Martin Indyk, Arafat and the PLO received United States diplomatic recognition and foreign aid from the U.S., which continues to this day.

In December 1998, President Clinton, finally convinced that Indyk’s 1996 covenant report was  wrong, arrived in Gaza, accompanied by Indyk, where they asked for a show of hands from members of the PNC as to whether they want to cancel the PLO covenant and make peace with Israel. The real answer, however, they got the next day.  Arafat’s personal spokesman, Yassir Abed Abbo, told the media that the PNC had, of course, not canceled any covenant.

Yet there is more.

In September, 2000, Dr. Uzi Landau, now a senior minister in the Israeli government, who  served then as the head of the Knesset State Control Committee (the equivalent of the U.S. Senate’s Committee on Governmental Affairs), took the unusual step of filing a formal complaint against United States Ambassador to Israel Martin Indyk.

Landau quoted the September 16, 2000 report in the Guardian of London that “the U.S. Ambassador to Israel yesterday urged Israel to share Jerusalem with the Palestinians.” Mr. Indyk said: “There is no other solution but to share the holy city… ” and Landau also noted that Ambassador Indyk was similarly quoted by the Associated Press, The Jerusalem Post and Ha’aretz.

Landau went on to say that “the timing of the speech and the political context in which it was delivered leave no room for doubt that Ambassador Indyk was calling on the Government of Israel to divide Jerusalem. Indeed, the Guardian correspondent described the remarks as ‘a sharp departure from Washington orthodoxy in recent years.’”

In addition to his remarks concerning Jerusalem, Ambassador Indyk offered his views regarding secular-religious tensions in Israel and the role of the Reform and Conservative movements in Judaism. He also intimated his tacit support for Prime Minister Barak’s so-called secular revolution. As a commentator in the liberal daily Ha’aretz, noted: “readers are urged to imagine what the Americans would say if the Israeli ambassador to Washington were to come to a local religious institution and say such things.”

Landau, who has served in a ministerial post in the Israeli government that negotiated sensitive relations between the U.S. and Israel, mentioned in his letter to Clinton that he wished to “strongly protest Ambassador Indyk’s blatant interference in Israel’s internal affairs and democratic process… I am sure you would agree that it is simply unacceptable for a foreign diplomat to involve himself so provocatively in the most sensitive affairs of the country to which he is posted. If a foreign ambassador stationed in the United States were to involve himself in a domestic American policy debate regarding race relations or abortion, the subsequent outcry would not be long in coming… Ambassador Indyk’s remarks about Jerusalem are an affront to Israel, particularly since he made them in the heart of the city that he aspires to divide. By needlessly raising Arab expectations on the Jerusalem issue, rather than moderating them, Ambassador Indyk has caused inestimable damage to the peace process. It is likewise inexplicable that Ambassador Indyk would choose to interject his private religious preferences into the debate over secular-religious tensions in Israel.”

Landau made it a point even more by stating that “this is not the first time that the American Embassy in Israel has interfered in our internal affairs. In February, I wrote to you in the wake of media reports that Embassy officials were lobbying Israeli-Arab leaders regarding a possible referendum on the Golan Heights. My fear is that such interference in Israel’s affairs is rapidly becoming routine.”

Landau concluded his  letter to Clinton with a “request that you recall Ambassador Indyk to the United States.”

 

Two months later, in early November 2000, Arafat’s Second Intifada terror campaign was getting underway, Indyk was strongly condemning Israel’s military actions against Arafat’s forces. Indyk remarked that what the Israelis had to do was to get Arafat to act against the perpetrators of the violence, such as Hamas, Tanzim gangs and the Islamic Jihad diplomatically. He did not mention that Arafat’s own Force 17 bodyguard, Preventive Security and other Palestinian Authority forces were also responsible for a considerable portion of the violence. Indyk never wanted to hold Arafat responsible when Arafat’s forces carried out terrorist activities.

In late November 2000, when Israel issued a “white paper” on intercepted intelligence from Arafat’s headquarters that showed documentary evidence that Arafat and his mainstream PLO gangs were indeed facilitating the campaign of terror, Indyk made a special trip to Jerusalem to demand that the Israeli government withdraw its report. Indyk had just reported to the U.S. Congress that the Palestinian groups organizing the terror campaign were NOT under Arafat’s control.

Eight months later, on May 21, 2001, in an address to Ben Gurion University, Indyk stuck to his guns and continued to position that Arafat and the PLO were the “U.S. colleagues in the War on Terror by telling Israel”: “What you do is you get Arafat to act against the perpetrators of the violence, Hamas, Tanzim gangs, the Islamic Jihad and you get the Israeli government to hold back the Israeli army while he does so. But that requires a great deal of energy and commitment on Arafat’s part — in very risky circumstances to take on the very angry Palestinian street — and that requires a great deal of restraint and forbearance on the part of the government of Israel.”

Indyk’s admonition to Israel to turn the other cheek when it came to Arafat  became his mantra.

Offline Dan193

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 10:49:35 AM »
Kerry is trying to Swiftboat Israel.

Kerry might hire Robert Malley for a Mideast state department job.
Read this article which details Malley's anti Israel's history.
http://freebeacon.com/a-bad-bad-choice/
A Bad, Bad Choice
Report: Kerry may hire controversial diplomat for advisory post
Adam Kredo
June 21, 2013

You'll also see in the article, how Malley wrote in 2007, where Malley was an apologist for mass murderer Assad.
Malley basically said in 2007 how the U.S should support Assad.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/11/opinion/oe-malley11

The only thing i would have added in the Freebeacon article was Malley's father wanted Israel destroyed and was a supporter of Arafat.
Camera wrote a good article about this.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_print=1&x_context=8&x_nameinnews=88&x_article=1437
The Robert Malley – Arafat Connection
Alex Safian, PhD
February 2, 2008

MARTIN PERETZ said it best about Malley.
Do you remember Robert Malley? Yes, that (Jewish) fella who makes a living counseling Israel to accede to every Palestinian demand

Read this article where Peretz destroys the lies of Malley, where Malley wrote some article where he basically wants a 1 state solution.
Malley wrote an article which Peretz responded to, where Malley says its not about the 67 borders but the 48 borders.
Malley wants to flood Israel with millions of Arabs to destroy it. Malley sounds like his radical father.
Malley some how doesn't talk about the 800,000 Jews forced from the Arab countries.
Here's the article.

http://www.newrepublic.com/blog/the-spine/mine-enemies-make-me-wiser#
AUGUST 12, 2009
Mine Enemies Make Me Wiser
MARTIN PERETZ
August 12, 2009

The verse is from Psalms 119, that is, King David, poet and hero.

Robert Malley and Hussein Agha are (let me just to be polite say "adversaries" instead of) enemies of Israel. That is why they are so welcome in the New York Review of Books and, of course, on the op-ed page of the New York Times where their latest missive, "The Two-State Solution Doesn't Solve Anything," appeared on Tuesday. (The same piece was published simultaneously in the Guardian, the closest thing to a pro-jihadist publication in ordinary journalism.) While fronting as an academic at St. Antony's College, Oxford, Agha makes no bones about his role as a strategist for the Palestinian leadership or as one of his admirers and the brains behind "J-Street," Daniel Levy, (the son of Lord Levy but that's another ugly story) characterizes him, "a track-II activist." In any case, Agha is not a flack for the official Palestinians; he is really and for all intents and purposes just one of them, even more under their intellectual discipline than Rashid Khalidi. Unlike Khalidi, he is also coarse.

Whether Agha is track-II or track-I, however, Robert Malley was once a real comer. He was a special assistant on Israeli-Arab affairs to President Clinton and then reappeared with basically false narratives of the Barak-Arafat negotiations as the Democratic administration limped to an end. When Barack Obama was running for the nomination, the Clinton campaign put out rumors that Malley was one of Obama's middle east advisers, and then the McCain campaign picked up the same tale, with even less scare-success than Hillary had.

I was one of those who put the kibosh on the story, and I was correct. Malley was not attached to the Obama campaign and he is not attached in any way to the present administration. You can understand why. Primarily, it is because he is against a "two-state solution." There were hints of that in his previous appearances in print. But there are no deceptions in the present Times article. The Times and the NYRB, for that matter, have previously published encomia for a "one-state solution." You will recall Tony Judt's outcroppings for that. But, then, you should also recall Leon Wieseltier's devastation in TNR.

The road to a two-state solution gets more obtruded with time. That is not because of the Israelis, whatever political obstacles there were for Bibi Netanyahu to return to his prior commitment to the formula in his first term as prime minister. Let's face facts: every Israel prime minister except Yitzhak Shamir has favored a two-state solution. It was the essence of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine which was the underpinning of Israel's international legality. Ben Gurion was for a two-state solution, and Sharret and Eshkol and Allon and Golda Meir and Begin and Rabin and Peres and Sharon and Olmert and Netanyahu, too. Had the Arabs accepted a two-state solution after the Six Day War, they would have gotten everything back that they lost, save for the ancient Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. But that is history that almost no one knows which is because almost no one knows any history at all.

The two-state solution is imperfect in that it won't fulfill all of the historic ambitions of the peoples in conflict. But, of course, the major impediment for the Arabs of Palestine and the Arabs outside Palestine is that Israel is and can only be a Jewish state. There is a certain insane chutzpah for the Arabs to object to the Jewish character of Israel. The fact is that its Jewish character was written into its very charter by the General Assembly 62 years ago. Indeed, the whole idea of peoplehood which informed the Wilsonian framework of the post-World War I formula for peace after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire is deeply enmeshed with Zionism. The envisioned Jewish commonwealth was as clear as a nation-state could be. The map of Europe was also almost axiomatic. Only in the Middle East (and, there, only outside of Palestine), however, did the cartography of new countries have to be imagined and invented. The states that were thus created are the cobbled-together and hobbled last impositions of imperialism on the natives: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Jordan. The emirates of the region are just jokes. Well, maybe you do want to go to the Louvre-in-the-sands. And the Guggenheim, too.

Agha and Malley assert at the end of their article that "the heart of the matter is not necessarily how to define a state of Palestine. It is, as in a sense its always been, how to define the state of Israel." Why the essential Jewish character of Israel should be problematic when all of the neighboring states--those actually adjoining and also the non-abutters--define themselves as both Arab and Muslim are exempt from the tribulations of self-definition is difficult to assess. It's not that any of those states are at all achievers. In fact, there is no Arab state that is a success, let alone a secular success.

Imagine for a moment the one-state solution in historic Palestine west of the Jordan. What peace will there be? What economic progress? What laws and what justice? What science? What kind of class system? Try to deny that all of this would be a nightmare.

The one-state solution is a fraud. Those who press it know that it is a fraud. And those who publish it do, as well.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: 'Peace Talks' should not be held in secrecy
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2013, 09:45:30 PM »
Even during Arafats terror war against Israeli civilians, Indyk did everything to protect this mass murderer Arafat.


Isn't that the "peace" negotiator's job?