Author Topic: Jews do not fight on the shabbat  (Read 804 times)

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Online angryChineseKahanist

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Jews do not fight on the shabbat
« on: March 25, 2014, 04:31:36 PM »
Origins of this?
I thought that in an emergency, you can break the rules.


http://www.jewishideasdaily.com/5565/features/warfare-on-shabbat-the-legacy-of-the-maccabees/
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Offline muman613

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Re: Jews do not fight on the shabbat
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 04:33:56 PM »
Yes, it is true that Shabbat can be broken in order to save life (Pikuah Nefesh)...

As the article you linked concluded:

Quote
Faced with the apparent contradiction in desecrating the Shabbat in order to thwart the further desecration of Shabbat, the Sages concluded, “It is preferable to violate one Shabbat in order to observe many other Shabbatot.”  This principle continues to guide such lifesaving activities as emergency medical services on Shabbat and holidays.  And since the restoration of Jewish sovereignty in the State of Israel, the considerations that allow the waging of war on Shabbat, both defensive and offensive, have been revived and given added force.  The presence of religious soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces—indeed, their overrepresentation in the officer corps—testifies that the halakhic issues involved have been successfully resolved.  This resolution is a particularly valuable legacy of the Maccabees.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jews do not fight on the shabbat
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 04:36:00 PM »
http://www.yutorah.org/_shiurim/Pikuach%20Nefesh%20Part%20I.html

Pikuach Nefesh: Saving a Life on Shabbat

Part I

The value of human life is so dear that the Torah mandates violation of Torah law in order to save a life (pikuach nefesh).  Although there are three exceptions to this principle (murder, idolatry and incest), violation of Shabbat is not an exception to the rule.  Therefore, if a life threatening situation arises on Shabbat, one is required to do whatever is necessary to save the life of the individual, even if it means performing a melacha that would otherwise be prohibited on Shabbat.  In fact, the Beraita (cited by the Gemara, Yoma 84b) states that one who is expeditious in saving a life on Shabbat (in a situation that involves performing a melacha) is considered praiseworthy (harei zeh meshubach).  This article will explore the source for performing melacha in a life threatening situation as well as the nature of the mandate to perform melacha.

The Source That Pikuach Nefesh Overrides Shabbat

The Gemara, ibid, quotes numerous opinions as to the source that one violates Shabbat (or other transgressions) in order to save a life.  Two sources emerge as the source that pikuach nefesh overrides Shabbat.  The first is "v'shamru b'nei yisrael et haShabbat" (Shemot 31:16) from which the Gemara derives that one should violate one Shabbat in order that someone else should be able to observe many Shabbatot.  The second source is vachai bahem (Vayikra 18:5), from which the Gemara derives that mitzvot are meant to be a source of life and not the cause of someone's death.  The Gemara then states that the second source is more encompassing than the first source.  The first source may only apply in a situation where a life will definitely be saved through the violation of Shabbat.  The second source applies even in a situation where it is questionable whether a life will be saved.  Tosafot, Yoma 85a, s.v. U'Lifake'ach, note that the second verse serves as the source for the opinion of Shmuel (Gemara, ibid) that lo halchu b’pikuach nefesh achar harov, when it comes to life and death matters statistical data is ignored.  If there is remote possibility of saving someone’s life, all means are employed to do so, even if this entails violation of a Torah prohibition.  Tosafot explain that the verse vachai bahem teaches that a mitzvah can never be a possible factor in the death of an individual.

The Differences Between the Two Sources

R. Naftali Z.Y. Berlin, Ha'Amek She'elah 1:8, and 167:17, introduces a novel difference between the two sources presented above.  As mentioned previously, the source of v'shamru b'nei yisrael et haShabbat only applies to a case where a life will definitely be saved.  R. Berlin proposes that the second source of vachai bahem is limited to a person who is considered a "live" individual.  Thus, the second source does not serve as a source to permit violating Shabbat to save an endangered fetus.  One can only violate Shabbat to save a fetus based on the first source.  However, since the first source only applies to a situation where a life will definitely be saved, R. Berlin suggests that one cannot violate Shabbat to save the life of a fetus in a situation where the life saving mission will have questionable success.

Approximately fifty years prior to the publication of R. Berlin's Ha'Amek She'elah,  Shulchan Aruch HaRav, Kuntrus Acharon 306:1, anticipated the possibility that one can argue that one may not violate Shabbat to save a fetus if the mission has questionable success (a position later to be adopted by R. Berlin).  Shulchan Aruch HaRav rejects this possibility by claiming that the verse vachai bahem encompasses all life threatening situations including the saving of a fetus.  R. Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (cited in Nishmat Avraham Vol. IV, pg 50) rules that R. Berlin's opinion is only accepted in a situation where it is known that the fetus will not survive and Shabbat is violated in order to delay the death of the fetus.  However, if there is any possibility that the fetus will survive, it is treated as a regular case of pikuach nefesh and Shabbat is violated to save the fetus.

The Gemara, Yoma 85a, states that one may even violate Shabbat in a situation where it is known that the life saving mission will only extend the individual's life for a few hours.  Me'iri, ad loc., s.v. HaMishna HaChamishit, explains that the reason why this is permitted is because in those few hours the patient has the opportunity to repent for his sins.  Mishna Berurah, Biur Halacha 329:4 s.v. Ela, notes that Me'iri is operating within the first source for saving a life on Shabbat.  According to the first source – based on the principle that one should violate one Shabbat in order that the patient may observe many more Shabbatot- the life saving mission does not necessarily have to produce the possibility that the patient will be able to observe other Shabbatot.  It is sufficient if he is able to perform other mitzvot.  Me'iri's opinion is that since one can perform the mitzvah of Teshuva in mere seconds, it is worthwhile to violate Shabbat to temporarily extend the life of the patient.  It is implicit from Me'iri's comments that if the patient's state of consciousness does not allow him to perform any mitzvah, one may not violate Shabbat to extend his life. Mishna Berurah posits that most Rishonim accept vachai bahem as the source that one violates Shabbat to save a life.  Accordingly, one would violate Shabbat to extend the life of an individual even in a situation where he will only live temporarily and his state of consciousness does not allow him to perform any mitzvah whatsoever.

Hutrah or Dechuyah

The Gemara, Yoma 83a, quotes a Beraita that if one is in a life threatening situation and his condition requires him to eat one of two types of non-kosher food, he should choose to eat the food item whose violation is less stringent.  [This principle is known as hakal hakal techilah (the lesser one comes first).] For example, if he must choose between neveilah (meat that was not slaughtered properly) and tevel (fruits that were not yet tithed), he should choose the tevel.  This is because one who wantonly eats neveilah is punished through lashes and one who eats tevel is not.

Rabbeinu Asher, Yoma 8:4, discusses a case of someone in a life threatening situation whose condition requires him to eat meat on Shabbat.  The question arises: is it preferable for him to eat neveilah meat, or is it preferable to slaughter an animal on Shabbat so that he may eat a kosher meat?  At first glance, the principle of hakal hakal techilah should dictate that the violation of neveilah, which is only punishable by lashes, should be preferable to the violation of Shabbat whose transgression is punishable by death.  Nevertheless, Rabbeinu Asher presents a few reasons why one should slaughter the animal and forgo the neveilah.  One of those reasons (Rabbeinu Asher attributes this reasoning to Maharam MiRutenberg) is because pikuach nefesh on Shabbat is hutrah (permitted).  This means that Shabbat is suspended in the face of a life threatening situation.  However, the prohibition of eating neveilah is dechuyah (pushed aside) for pikuach nefesh.  This means that the prohibition of eating neveilah remains and the life threatening situation overrides the prohibition.  Since Shabbat is suspended in the face of pikuach nefesh and neveilah is not (but is overridden), it is preferable to slaughter the animal on Shabbat.  [Rabbeinu Asher notes that this is only applicable if there will be no delay in preparing the kosher meat.]

Rashba, Teshuvot HaRashba 1:689, agrees that the question of whether to give the patient neveilah or whether to slaughter the animal on Shabbat is contingent on whether pikuach nefesh on Shabbat is hutrah or dechuyah.  However, Rashba contends that pikuach nefesh on Shabbat is dechuyah and therefore advocates feeding neveilah to the patient.

Some Poskim see the question of whether pikuach nefesh on Shabbat is hutrah or dechuyah as central to many discussions regarding pikuach nefesh on Shabbat (see for example R. Ovadia Yosef, Yechaveh Da'at 4:30).  However, R. Moshe Feinstein, Igrot Moshe, Choshen Mishpat 2:79, claims that the only practical application of the question of hutrah or dechuyah is the case of whether the patient should eat the neveilah or whether it is better to slaughter an animal on Shabbat.  Other issues that may relate to this question will be discussed in the next issue.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jews do not fight on the shabbat
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 04:46:47 PM »
Chabad's Sichos contain the following excerpt relating to Pikuach Nefesh in a state of War, and whether the 'Camp David' agreements can be considered 'saving lives' (you will see that the Rebbe did not consider the peace process to be viable):


http://www.sichosinenglish.org/essays/18.htm

Pikuach Nefesh is Preeminent

The critical issue here is pikuach nefesh, saving of life. The Torah tells us that pikuach nefesh assumes priority in almost every situation:[1] Shabbos is desecrated to save life, the laws of Kashrus are discarded to save a life, etc. Jews entered the Camp David peace process hoping it would lead to peace, and hence prevention of loss of life. Whether this goal is attained, however, is another matter.

No one can maintain that the ‘peace’ arrived at in Camp David is, or can be, assured. A treaty is only as good as the word of the man who signs it, and nothing on earth can guarantee its permanence. History is too full of instances where treaties were broken as casually as the tearing up of the paper on which they were written. In this case, there are several complications which further compound the uncertainty. No one can really be sure of Sadat’s intentions in signing the treaty. Did he really desire a lasting peace? Or was it just a way to obtain that which he could not gain through war? He could easily break off relations once everything is in Egypt’s possession. And even if Sadat was personally trustworthy, there is no guarantee that his successors will be. Moreover, Egypt is not a sound democracy. Who knows what upheaval will produce which type of leadership? Egypt is unstable, a fact demonstrated by Sadat’s assassination; and a new regime may not feel obligated to keep its predecessor’s commitments. We will have more to say about this later.

In short then, the peace is not an assured one, but merely a gamble for peace. Perhaps the peace will last -- but perhaps it will not. That is the idea of taking a chance.

Conversely, the concessions made by the Jewish people are not mere verbal or written pronouncements, but very substantial indeed. So much so, that these concessions may put Eretz Yisrael into greater danger than before -- as we shall shortly discuss. In other words, while the concessions were made to avoid danger to life, they result in the reverse: they themselves are a danger to the lives of the Jews in Eretz Yisrael. We have then the following dilemma before us: The peace process may avoid loss of life, but surrendering the lands constitutes a threat of life, G-d forbid. Both acts seemingly are for the purpose of pikuach nefesh. The crucial question is: which takes precedence?

What does the Halachah say?[2]

Torah is the Jew’s guide in all aspects of life, and we look to it for direction in all things. There is a halachah in Shulchan Aruch, the Jewish Code of Law, which gives a clear directive in just such a case as ours. In the Laws of Shabbos, Orach Chaim, Ch. 329. paragraph 6, it states: "When non-Jews besiege Jewish cities, if they came for money purposes, we do not desecrate the Shabbos because of them [by warring against them]. But if they came [with the intention] to take lives, or even if they came with no announced purpose and there is reason to suspect that perhaps they came to take lives; then, even if they have as yet not come, but are making preparations to come, we go forth against them with weapons and desecrate the Shabbos because of them. When it is a city close to the border, then, even if they want to come only for the purpose of [taking] straw and stubble, we desecrate the Shabbos because of them; for [if we do not prevent their coming] they may conquer the city, and from there the [rest of the] land will be easy for them to conquer [since it is a city on the border]."

From this halachah we learn the following: Even if the entire purpose and intention of the enemy is only to take ‘straw and stubble,’ and not to kill; and should we succumb to the enemy’s demands and give him the straw and stubble there will be ‘peace’ and no need for war; nevertheless, Torah tells us that the very threat of non-Jews taking over a city close to the border constitutes a state of pikuach nefesh -- and the Shabbos must be desecrated to prevent its occurrence. For since the non-Jews would then be in a strategic position to conquer the land itself, the security of the country is in jeopardy. Hence, although it is only a possibility in the future, Torah bids us, because of pikuach nefesh, to undertake all measures, including actual warfare if necessary, to prevent such a situation from developing. Or in other words: the mere possibility that the security of the country’s borders will, in the future, be weakened by the enemy’s actions now, is deemed by Torah to be a situation of immediate pikuach nefesh -- and must be prevented now.

The Situation in Eretz Yisrael Today

This is the clear halachah in Shulchan Aruch. Even a cursory look at the situation today in Eretz Yisrael will reveal the startling similarity to this halachah. The essence of the above halachah is the prohibition against allowing non-Jews to take control of a city next to the border for fear it will imperil the security of the country itself. This is exactly the situation today. Every inch of territory in Eretz Yisrael today contributes to its security; and to give it to non-Jews endangers that security. The unanimous opinion of military experts is that the lands are essential to Eretz Yisrael’s security, and to relinquish them poses a military danger to its very existence. The reason is simple. Strategic depth is vital to its security, as was so clearly demonstrated in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. We can only imagine what would have happened, G-d forbid, had Egypt been in possession of the Sinai; the Egyptian army could have easily penetrated to the very core of Eretz Yisrael. Yehudah and Shomron and the Golan Heights are even more vital for defensible borders; and to relinquish them outright, or in the form of autonomy which is the equivalent of giving them up, is endangering our security. All these lands are, in the words of Shulchan Aruch, "close to the border," meaning that giving possession of them to the enemy is leaving the rest of the land vulnerable to easy conquest.

Indeed, the situation today is, in several respects, more severe than that described in Shulchan Aruch. The Shulchan Aruch gives this directive 1) even when the non-Jews just want to come -- and we cannot be sure they actually will come; 2) even if they come they only demand straw and stubble, and probably will be satisfied with that and depart; [3]) even if they desire to actually conquer the city close to the border they may not be successful in their objective. Nevertheless, despite all these doubts, Torah tells us that since they may actually come; and since they may not be satisfied with just the straw and stubble; and since they may then conquer the city -- and thus the rest of the land will be open for conquest -- we must therefore take military steps to prevent this at the very beginning, when they are merely contemplating coming.

In today’s situation, the circumstances are not so doubtful. While Torah tells us we must keep the situation from even developing to the point that the enemy might be in a position to occupy a city close to the border, it is proposed that we actually give them these lands outright! Our strategic buffer zone will have been eliminated. The valuable extra time for our air defense to operate is gone. The Egyptian army will be positioned that much closer to the rest of Eretz Yisrael, and the densely populated inner core of the land is made infinitely more vulnerable to attack. Can there be greater danger to Jewish life than this?

Besides the actual lands, there are several other factors which also are a matter of pikuach nefesh, matters of life and death. In today’s times a nation’s military machine (and its economy) runs on oil. Without an adequate assured source of oil, no war can be fought for any reasonable length of time. In the Sinai, we had developed several important oilfields which were a major part of our oil supply. Without those oilfields Eretz Yisrael is dependent on foreign sources for 98% of its oil. Yet those oilfields are being given up as part of the Camp David process.

It must be emphasized that there is no substitute for Eretz Yisrael having its own sources of oil. The facilities are simply not there to store oil for any adequate length of time (as has been ascertained by numerous studies). Likewise, notwithstanding any assurances to the contrary, neither the U.S.A. nor any other country can be relied upon to supply us with oil. The U.S.A. has its own energy problems. It would be foolish and naive to think it will supply Eretz Yisrael with oil at a time when its own citizens may be angrily standing in long lines at the gas pumps.

The Sinai also contains the extremely valuable assets of Jewish settlements and airfields, developed by Jewish ingenuity at Jewish expense. Border settlements are our first line of defense against enemy armies and terrorists. To abandon these settlements means removing one of our strongest defenses and creating great danger to Jewish lives.

The airfields which we must relinquish under the terms of the treaty are among the most sophisticated in the world; and they will be handed over into Egyptian hands! This is a double jeopardy: we lose the airfields; and the enemy gains forward bases from which to menace the whole land.

Aside from the security aspect of the above, which, as explained, constitutes a clear case of pikuach nefesh, there are other, secondary matters involved. From the purely economic viewpoint, the results of the peace treaty are disastrous. At a time when every other country in the world is scrambling desperately to find ways to cut its energy costs, Eretz Yisrael is giving away its oilfields. Since giving up its oilfields, its energy bill has jumped by billions of dollars. And when the last oilfield is gone, it will have to import 98% of its oil -- at tremendous cost. To rub salt into the wound, we are expected to be grateful to Egypt for graciously consenting to ‘allow’ us to buy oil from those self-same oilfields -- which were developed by us in the first place!

To sum up: Shulchan Aruch instructs us that it is prohibited to allow lands which are necessary for secure borders to fall into enemy hands. It constitutes a danger to the entire land, and must be prevented even to the extent of desecrating the Shabbos because of it. All military experts agree that most of the Sinai, the Golan Heights, Yehudah and Shomron, are vital to the security of Eretz Yisrael. The halachah then must be that it is prohibited to give up these lands on the basis of such surrender being pikuach nefesh, a matter of preserving Jewish life.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jews do not fight on the shabbat
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2014, 04:59:20 PM »
I have posted this video of a talk given by the Chabad Rebbe (in the 80s I think) where he discusses what was posted in my previous post...


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Online angryChineseKahanist

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Re: Jews do not fight on the shabbat
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 01:32:44 AM »
....because at first they just laid there and died on the shabbath. ...1000 of them died in the cave

a war by its nature is an emergency. whether you started it or they did.
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