Mods, we must deal with this once and for all.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Why will Chaimfan not answer me.  I know he's there.

I could drive to anywhere in the LA area to meet him...tonight.

We could meet at a public place.  Some kind of all-night diner, or whatever.

I'm completely serious.

Do you like have a crush on me, or what? 

[Shlomo]

MassuhDGoodName here.

This stuff is strictly "high school" ridiculousness.

For such contentious behavior did the 2nd Temple fall to Rome, with our people Israel banished from our Land for 2000 years.

The only eyewitness surviving history of Jerusalem's fall to Rome, was written by one known today as Josephus.

Josephus describes in his History of The Jews that immediately prior to the destruction of the Jewish People, Jews all over Jerusalem heard with their own ears the Angelic guardians of Jerusalem repeatedly calling out to them from Heaven "We are leaving now!"..."We are leaving now!".
Leave they did, as Ha'Shem withdrew his Blessing from our ancestors; all of whom were fighting amongst themselves with their fellow Jews.

I suggest all involved in this "war of words" prove their willingness to see our 3rd Temple rebuilt by apologizing to each other, or, short of that, leave this forum for a while until reason wins out over your emotional outbursts.

Are you guys serious?? This is what you are upset about? Grow some thicker skin.

We are not going to agree on every issue. Just look at yourselves. Shame! We'll never become a mass movement if you guys continue to act like this! It's so selfish and wrong. Wow... and what, exactly, is this supposed to accomplish?

MassuhDGoodName, is 100% right. Stop this terrible bickering once and for all.

1.) Until Shiloh Comes is one of our great Administrators. What he says goes. He was picked by Chaim ben Pesach and I will not stand here and allow this type of mutiny.

2.) Stop speaking evil against the high Rabbis. You don't have to agree with them but this does NOT help our cause and it is wrong. Chaim even gave an entire segment on this on one of the Ask JTF shows recently.

3.) Do you love JTF and the cause or are you more involved in your own egos? This is beyond divisive.

UNITY is what we need! Why waste all this time and effort on this when we could be growing the forum?

I am so disappointed in this thread. You should all be really embarrassed by the evil you have done in here. G-d help us.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Alright, it is over.

[newman]

I'm just glad I'm not in the poo for once.

[cjd]

I don't know. Maybe. We really should have a nyc meeting as their are lots of people from the area on here.

We had one before and only me & cjd showed up.  http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4908.0

Its to bad more people did not show up that day it was a great place to have a get together. The weather was great the campus was quiet and there was spots to sit and talk. I really enjoyed meeting jdl4ever and even got to see Hail Columbia. If we have another meeting I would love to attend.

[DownwithIslam]

I remember that meeting and I don't think it will work unless Chaim and Jimmy sullivan make it official. I think we should have an official JTFdinner or meeting and I think lots of people will come then.

[judeanoncapta]

I do not hold according to Hacham Ovadia on "Zionism", or "Israel related" issues. But I still think that it is a hillul hashem for the non jews on the forum to criticize this holy rav. Harav Mordechai Eliyahu, also former chief rabbi of Israel disagrees with him. Do you see him making public statements about Harav Ovadia saying that he is wrong? And for a religous jew to say that Harav Ovadia is dead wrong on almost all of his ruling, as you did, is upsurd.

It says in Mesekheth Horioth that if a Talmid hamagia l'Horaah, a student who is knowledgable enough to give instruction to others decides to rely on the Sanhedrin and do something that the Torah says is forbidden,(which the Sanhedrin mistakenly beleives is permisable), that student must bring his own Qorban and cannot rely on the Par Healam davar that is brought for all o the people who acted according o the Sanhedrin's mistake.

Now this is talking about a Sanhedrin which has very real power according to the Torah, not a Rav who only must be listened to by his students. Even then a Sanhedrin can make a mistake and if someone who knows better decides to transgress a prohibition that the Sanhedrin has mistakenly prohibited, his sin is on his own head.

I can therefore not say that I will ignore what I have learned both in Maimonides and the Talmudh and the Shulhan Arukh and rely on Rav Ovadia's Pisqei Din. If I do, my sin will be on my own head.

I noticed that you said that you don't agree with him on Zionism and Israel related issues, that presumes that you agree with him on everything else and you accept whatever else he says without looking up the sources he is basing himself on. I suggest that you do so before relying on anything he says. Because if he is willing to pervert the words of Maimonides so brazenly then how can we assume he does not do so in other issues?

As far as criticizing Rav Ovadia, I will repeat again my position. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to criticize his ideas. I think that it is wrong to call him a peice of drek or to intimate sexual proclivities about him.

I will always oppose that.

But to say that he is wrong, is not a problem. We find Rabbonim in the Talmudh disagreeing with each other with very strong language indeed.

To paraphrase the Talmud, let me say about Rav Ovadia Yosef's ideas:

His words are like Smoke to my eyes and vinegar to my teeth.

[jdl4ever]

I agree with judeanoncapta.  Maimonities in Hilchot Yisodei Hatorah is very clear and R' Ovadia goes directly against Maimonities. 

[DownwithIslam]

Ok, I have already committed myself to criticize him without using sexual and other improper terms. It's not that I don't want to call him those names, I just feel it won't help JTF.

[newman]

What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?

[mord]

The Shas party is the official religious party representing Sephardic (i.e. nonwhite) Jews.

R. Yosef looks white to me!  He is adorned beautifully, too.

adorned  beautifully he looks like an iraqi shia imam very gaudy outfit..   he no doubt loves money more then the average man

[judeanoncapta]

I agree with judeanoncapta.  Maimonities in Hilchot Yitodei Hatorah is very clear and R' Ovadia goes directly against Maimonities. 

Thank you very much for your appelation.

It is not a Mitzvah to listen to a Rav when you know the Halakha is different than what he is saying.

The Talmud in Horioth says these words about a student who does so, Ta'a biMitzvah lishmoah lidivrei Hakhamim. He made a mistake in the Mitzvah of listening to Hakhamim. Let's not make such a mistake.

As far as Dominater96 saying that he only disagrees with Rav Ovadia on Israel and Zionism. That says to me that he listens to everything without learning the actual sources. However, in Israel and Zionism issues, he disagrees with him. On what basis? His own personal feelings. That's what.

I think that is an untenable position for a religious Jew. The idea that I will listen blindly to anything a Rav says unless I personally disagree with it. Well, if one disagrees with it, then one is obligated to look up the Torah source and see what the truth is. Perhaps he is wrong and the Rav is right. How does he know unless he looks it up and learns it?

Either way Rav Ovadia is wrong about giving up land.

Rav Kahane TZ"L HY"D has a shiur on youtube refuting Rav Ovadia's halakhic reasoning called the Yoke of Heaven.

Rav David Bar Haim has a shiur on machonshilo.org in the audio section refuting Rav Ovadia's halakhic reasoning called Land for Peace part 1.

A discerning mind should Listen to these shiurim, Read Maimonides and all of the sources quoted and make up his own mind.

[judeanoncapta]

What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?

Baseball bats are good.

Try not to get caught though.

[newman]

What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?

Baseball bats are good.

Try not to get caught though.

 

[DownwithIslam]

What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?

Baseball bats are good.

Try not to get caught though.

I agree with that. We should use a bat on piss now as well.

[judeanoncapta]

What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?

Baseball bats are good.

Try not to get caught though.

I agree with that. We should use a bat on piss now as well.

Well, I think that when the nation of Israel wakes up and elects Kahanists to run the country, There should a public execution by decapitation of every member of Peace Now and Neturei Karta and Gush Shalom etc.

And I'm not kidding.

[Until Shiloh Comes]

Jdl4ever I agree with you and respect you totally. The problem was that I was threatened by until shiloh comes.

DownWithIslam,

The record shows I made no such "threat" to anyone.  I made a post admonishing ALL our members, which you decided to take personally.   I have no control over your reading comprehension DWI, but I've told you already that it wasn't personally directed at you and clarified my remarks.   The fact that you continue to accuse me of this suggests that you believe I am a liar.    May HaShem judge between you and I on this issue.

Regards until Shiloh comes,
Christopher

[DownwithIslam]

Judea non capta, every time I see a muslim in America, I feel like decapitating him.

[judeanoncapta]

Check out these loyal American Muslims.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...What are the rules for attacking an openly gay reform rabbi?.."

The rules are:

Unless he physically attacks you first, and you are defending yourself, then you are committing a most serious crime, and may very well end up in so much legal and financial trouble that you will wish you had never been born.  You will also bring disgrace on your parents, your family members, and your community.

Sure doesn't make sense to me to find yourself locked in a tiny cell for 10 to 20 years with one or more negro homosexual rapists and murderers if you don't like to be around queers.

There is nothing you could do to to such an obviously depraved individual as an openly practicing homosexual "Rabbi" that could outdo the damage such a fool is doing to themselves.

[raiseyourfist]

THIS IS A GROUP THAT PLANS TO SAVE THE WORLD...

WE CANT EVEN GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER... IN THE INTEREST OF SETTLING THIS.. ON ONE HAND CHAIMFAN AND DOWNWITHISLAM HAVE HUGE ADMIRATION FOR CHAIM BEN PAESACH...


ON THE OTHER HAND DOMINATOR96 HAS HIS OWN OPINIONS WHICH REALLY DON'T MATTER IN THE LONG RUN...

WE HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT HERE